So what do people think of the characters?

Hardboiled Android said:
It is possible that instead they only harvest organs off of normal people, and they're somehow producing serum from the captured ghouls for sale.
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Making ghoul juice with the prisoners is what I thought they were doing, but they never actually say that or acknowledge anything about it. The whole organ harvesting operation also doesn't make sense, because who is buying all of these organs? How are they being transported without spoiling, and where is the market for them? Filly? Are they floating organs on barges up to San Francisco? Do people have to come to the Super Duper Mart and let Snip Snip do the transplants?
 
Bradylama said:
Making ghoul juice with the prisoners is what I thought they were doing, but they never actually say that or acknowledge anything about it. The whole organ harvesting operation also doesn't make sense, because who is buying all of these organs? How are they being transported without spoiling, and where is the market for them? Filly? Are they floating organs on barges up to San Francisco? Do people have to come to the Super Duper Mart and let Snip Snip do the transplants?
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Given the ease of organ and limb transplants and amount of violence, it probably is a pretty thriving market.

We see how easy it is to do a limb transplant with Wilzig but sadly wasn't a very good patch job.

She needed to use a Doctor's Bag first.

Bradylama said:
Cooper doesn't ask for a specific number IIRC, he says he's exchanging a healthy woman for 2 months' supply.
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Cool. I stand corrected.
 
CT Phipps said:
The show takes the attitude that science should work in a silly retrofuture way. It does it much more than Bethesda and more like the original two games.
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Science working differently is fine but I'm tired of people using the excuse of a story being sci-fi or fantasy to handwave poor world building and no logical consistency. The original two games were at least logically consistent and presented in a manner where the sci-fi could be explained and taken seriously, no matter how silly the concept.
 
Pulpy sci-fi is just a setup for exploring ideas, in the way that the original Fallouts did. It doesn't matter if the science is realistic, it just has to work. The science in Fallout tv doesn't work at all, produces inconsistent results, and is basically just a magical device for making the plot do what the writers want at the time. Stimpaks are weak unless it's Dogmeat and then they work perfectly; stuff like that.
 
I feel so bad for Codsworth because when Cooper mentions making 10,000,000 dollars, he's indicating how much he's getting paid for Vault-Tec.

Of course, all of that money is going to worthless when hyperinflation kicks in.
 
Anybody else notice that the Maximus/Lucy dynamic is of the same mould as the Finn/Rey pairing in the new Star Wars movies? Black man who's submissive, bumbling, comedic relief; White woman who's "trying to do the right thing."

I will say that Lucy is a far better character than Rey. Her naivete is played up rather than her perfection (her character arc is losing that naivete, rather than realizing that she's even more awesome than she thought she was). These are essentially the same character arc, it's just that the former is done well. The same goes for Maximus/Finn - rebel against evil leaders, develop into a legit hero while starting off with "fake it til you make it" - but to be honest I preferred Finn to Maximus. Chris Avellone blames the directing - and I'm inclined to agree with him. The poor directing, and sketchy plot issues (can a cheese cloth be said to have holes in it?) are the problem.

This trope seems to be a fairly obvious product of the DEI/Critical Theory worldview. Not so much conspiracy as the confluence of controlled finance with activist artists.

We ain't going to see the likes of Captain Benjamin Sisko any time soon.
 
Atomic Cowboy said:
Anybody else notice that the Maximus/Lucy dynamic is of the same mould as the Finn/Rey pairing in the new Star Wars movies? Black man who's submissive, bumbling, comedic relief; White woman who's "trying to do the right thing."
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Hopefully they won't back away and set her up with a white bad boy as more socially acceptable.
 
Atomic Cowboy said:
Anybody else notice that the Maximus/Lucy dynamic is of the same mould as the Finn/Rey pairing in the new Star Wars movies?
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I'll say the TV show has plenty of common with the Star Wars sequels beyond just that. Two pieces of media that over-use memberries to distract the viewer from the awful writing.

They even did the whole "we need to do this thing because the franchise has to be in a perpetual specific state or else it's not the same anymore" crap. In the Star Wars sequels they basically just do the whole rebels versus empire thing, even though it doesn't make sense since the rebels are the majority now and the empire barely exists, but then the empire shows up out of nowhere with a death star and blows up most of the republic at once. In the Fallout TV show they blow up Shady Sands because any signs of a civilization has to be destroyed or else it isn't Fallout, even though Fallout 2 and New Vegas try their hardest to show new civilizations.

Apparently JJ Abrams was going to go even further with the blowing up the Republic and actually blow up Coruscant (one of the most important planets in the galaxy), but Disney shut that down. Todd did eventually concede and they blew up Shady Sands for an incredibly dumb reason, so the terrible Star Wars sequels had more restraint that the crappy TV show.
 
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Atomic Cowboy said:
Anybody else notice that the Maximus/Lucy dynamic is of the same mould as the Finn/Rey pairing in the new Star Wars movies? Black man who's submissive, bumbling, comedic relief; White woman who's "trying to do the right thing."

I will say that Lucy is a far better character than Rey. Her naivete is played up rather than her perfection (her character arc is losing that naivete, rather than realizing that she's even more awesome than she thought she was). These are essentially the same character arc, it's just that the former is done well. The same goes for Maximus/Finn - rebel against evil leaders, develop into a legit hero while starting off with "fake it til you make it" - but to be honest I preferred Finn to Maximus. Chris Avellone blames the directing - and I'm inclined to agree with him. The poor directing, and sketchy plot issues (can a cheese cloth be said to have holes in it?) are the problem.

This trope seems to be a fairly obvious product of the DEI/Critical Theory worldview. Not so much conspiracy as the confluence of controlled finance with activist artists.

We ain't going to see the likes of Captain Benjamin Sisko any time soon.
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Finn had a brain and was capable of holding his own against the galaxy's most dangerous people. The whole problem with Finn was that Disney pulled the chord on their original plans for the trilogy and he ended up with nothing to do.

Maximus is just, plainly speaking, an imbecile. He's a character made to fit a player character style, but a player character makes no sense for a TV show. Maximus is literally described by Nolan as being based on his Fallout 3 playstyle. Players know that the characters in a video game aren't real, and a lot of them engage with it as moral nihilists because they know it's not real. That doesn't work for a tv show because characters in an authorial medium can only do what they're predestined to do. It's not like an RPG where players get multiple choices. These are people who live in the world of the story. You can't write Maximus as a moral nihilist who's willing to kill anyone who gets in the way of what he wants, and then play him off like he's a good guy at the last minute. It's stupid beyond belief.
 
Bradylama said:
Finn had a brain and was capable of holding his own against the galaxy's most dangerous people. The whole problem with Finn was that Disney pulled the chord on their original plans for the trilogy and he ended up with nothing to do.
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Yeah, the thing that sucked with Finn is that he was an actual new thing for the franchise, at least in the movies. A Stormtrooper that was heavily indoctrinated by the empire finally realizes that the empire is actually bad and decides to join the rebels? The movies hadn't done anything like that, Stormtroopers in the previous movies were just targets for the main characters to kill. Shame the writers forgot he existed except for an awkward romance with Rose and being a cheerleader for Rey.

Maximus on the other hand, yeah, his whole thing is just dumb. I'll say all the other things that were made as such to resemble the games are stupid as well, because it's a TV show, not the fucking games. Different mediums require different approaches.
 
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Norzan said:
Yeah, the thing that sucked with Finn is that he was an actual new thing for the franchise, at least in the movies. A Stormtrooper that was heavily indoctrinated by the empire finally realizes that the empire is actually bad and decides to join the rebels? The movies hadn't done anything like that, Stormtroopers in the previous movies were just targets for the main characters to kill. Shame the writers forgot he existed except for an awkward romance with Rose and being a cheerleader for Rey.
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This is my take too. That's about the only original thing in The Force Awakens and they didn't do anything useful with it. You can have diverse characters, just write them well, otherwise maybe you're the racist all along, LOL.

The Empire "New Order" has a new secret interplanetary Death Star was just so cringe. Who funds these things?
 
Bradylama said:
These are people who live in the world of the story. You can't write Maximus as a moral nihilist who's willing to kill anyone who gets in the way of what he wants, and then play him off like he's a good guy at the last minute. It's stupid beyond belief.
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He's a guy who doesn't have any real moral feelings on anything/believes the Brotherhood's BS then realizes they're assholes.

He's on an arc.
 
CT Phipps said:
He's a guy who doesn't have any real moral feelings on anything/believes the Brotherhood's BS then realizes they're assholes.

He's on an arc.
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He's actually not on an arc. Maximus is the same person at the end that he was at the beginning, which was confirmed with the reveal that Danse did the boot razor to himself. When the show gave the impression that Maximus did the boot razor, it made him seem morally compromised and driven to achieve his goals. As it is now, Maximus doesn't really have morality or goals, he just impulsively does whatever feels right at the time every time.
 
Bradylama said:
He's actually not on an arc. Maximus is the same person at the end that he was at the beginning, which was confirmed with the reveal that Danse did the boot razor to himself. When the show gave the impression that Maximus did the boot razor, it made him seem morally compromised and driven to achieve his goals. As it is now, Maximus doesn't really have morality or goals, he just impulsively does whatever feels right at the time every time.
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Maximus wants to be a Knight of the Brotherhood more than anything at the start and then is ashamed he's a Knight of the Brotherhood at the end.
 
Is he actually ashamed or would he just rather live in a nice peaceful vault than be a goon of the Commonwealth?
 
Bradylama said:
Is he actually ashamed or would he just rather live in a nice peaceful vault than be a goon of the Commonwealth?
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Maximus believes that the brotherhood are heroes who rescued him and tries several times to be a hero by protecting Chicken Fucker, Lucy, and other people but each time it ends in disaster. Then he sees that the Knights are bullies, fascists, and their philosophy is outright insane. He wants the camaraderie of a family and brotherhood but it's a cult and he realizes that.

I HATE that the major black character in the franchise is Finn, treated as a complete incompetent boob and idiot, but he is on a story path.
 
I'm not so sure Maximus believes in anything. While interrogated he says over and over again that he wants to hurt the people who hurt him, and if the Brotherhood will give him the power to do that then he's willing to do anything for the Brotherhood. Maximus doesn't feel any debt or loyalty to anything, it's all transactional to him. That also tracks for Nolan's play style.
 
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