Some more Ashley Cheng

[Brother None]

Bethesda producer Ashley Cheng has written up a bit about Pete Hines' recent interview in PC Zone UK, entitled "A Post about Nothing":<blockquote>This is kinda old news -- Pete gave this interview about Fallout 3 and said, "Some people will like it, some people will hate it." Fine line between love and hate, certainly. Not just for our games -- visit any developer's boards -- they are just as noisy with hate as ours. Often times, when I read boards or blogs, I feel that people think they need to be critical to sound smart. I think its sometimes harder to write copiously about why you liked something than than it is to criticize. Then again, isn't that the point? To register your disgust on the Internet? I would hope that if you were enjoying a game, that you would keep playing it

Anyways, early interviews about projects that we're not talking about are fairly tortuous for everybody all around. Though can't be any worse than waiting for a sequel since 1998 (when Fallout 2 released) or reading useless weblog entries about nothing...</blockquote>We always enjoy your weblog entries, Ashley. Then again, it's all we got to go on...

...Speaking of "all we got to go on", Briosafreak notes in this post that at some point during working hours Ashley Cheng's twitter read "playing the latest build".

Link: Ashley Cheng: A post about Nothing
Link: Fallout 3: A Post Nuclear Blog

 

[taxacaria]

Often times, when I read boards or blogs, I feel that people think they need to be critical to sound smart.

So the uncritical customer is the smart customer?

There is a simple solution : produce better games.

 

[Big T]

Often times, when I read boards or blogs, I feel that people think they need to be critical to sound smart.

So the uncritical customer is the smart customer?

Congrats, you've just made the most predictable response ever.

Seriously, though, there is a world of difference between informed criticism and blind hate. As a community, we seem to miss that distiction too often.

 

[RPG of the year!!]

Fine line between love and hate, certainly. Not just for our games -- visit any developer's boards -- they are just as noisy with hate as ours.

Gee whiz, Ashley! Intentional ignorance sure is neat-o, isn't it? Too bad that I'm not much of a shyster, or else I could join you in pretending that Bethesda's immensly hemorrhaged fanbase is something that simply goes with the territory of being a developer, and not the result of The Toddler whoring TES into an Xbox twitch-action hack'n'slash FPS.

Often times, when I read boards or blogs, I feel that people think they need to be critical to sound smart.

How cute. You discovered your excuse for dismissing criticism. "WTF u dont liek Oblivion !?!? u dunt like whut wer doin 2 Fallout 3!? OMG ur jus tryeing 2 sound smart!! LOLOL1!11". That's quite an important milestone. Just ask Chucky.

Seriously, though, there is a world of difference between informed criticism and blind hate. As a community, we seem to miss that distiction too often.

Funny. Since I've yet to witness a member of the Fallout community disparage Bethesda(or any of the other munchkins who shat upon the franchise during a clueless scramble for hAwT m0Ney!!1!) without having a well informed critical basis behind them, I'm rather curious to see an example of the community "missing the distinction".

 

[taxacaria]

Congrats, you've just made the most predictable response ever.

So there is no reason to be disappointed.

Seriously, though, there is a world of difference between informed criticism and blind hate. As a community, we seem to miss that distiction too often.

Seriously, think about the well informed reviewers writing their hype previews and reviews, enthusiastic fanboys etc. Did you ever read a word of Ashley Cheng about that kind of uncritical game comments?
Many fans of Fallout are well informed about the differences between their wishes and Bethesda's mainstream next gen marketing strategy. If you're not a dreamer, you know what kind of Fallout game Beth is developing : a bloody, FP/RT-action-console-game. Do you expect admiring comments from Fallout fans seriously?
Ashley Cheng is a business man, he's not our benefactor, and he's not an independend viewer. His intentions are to make more money, so he has many reasons to defame criticism.

 

[sanyok21]

Often times, when I read boards or blogs, I feel that people think they need to be critical to sound smart.

How cute. You discovered your excuse for dismissing criticism. "WTF u dont liek Oblivion !?!? u dunt like whut wer doin 2 Fallout 3!? OMG ur jus tryeing 2 sound smart!! LOLOL1!11". That's quite an important milestone. Just ask Chucky.

Couldn't have said this one better Rosh, but all the other stuff was quite farfeched. You really believe that no user here has ever badmouthed Bethsoft for no reason? Be objective.

 

[Brother None]

Couldn't have said this one better Rosh, but all the other stuff was quite farfeched. You really believe that no user here has ever badmouthed Bethsoft for no reason? Be objective.

That's not really the point. Sure, there are people like that, but should that make *the* difference?

Here's what I wrote in Ashley's Blog:


If we're face-down-in-the-mud honest, "some people will like it, some won't" is kind of a cop-out. Yes, there's always plenty of people that dislike things up ahead, just like there's always plenty of people that love things up ahead (don't see Pete complaining about those guys, by the way). Are they a majority of forum posters? Maybe, they're loud enough anyway. Are they a majority of shoppers? 'course not.

J.E. Sawyer was the type of guy that cared for the quality of the game and people's opinions beyond the more superficial "some people won't like it, but what do you do?" It is a simple matter of recognising that indeed you will not please everyone, but that this has nothing at all to do with the largest chunk of your consumers, whose like or dislike is purely in the hands of the developer (and possibly the hands of opinion-shapers, either in hype or burn).

So "Some people will like it, some people won't" isn't the answer to a question anyone has posed. It is at best an affirmation of facts, at worst a Chuck Cuevas-esque attempt at PR. The answer to the question is, of course, 42. The answer to the *other* question, that question being "who does Bethesda *want* to please" is left unanswered.

Perhaps it will remain so ad infinitum? Just sayin'

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I think its sometimes harder to write copiously about why you liked something than than it is to criticize.

Job application for Pravda?

 

[sanyok21]

That's not really the point. Sure, there are people like that, but should that make *the* difference?

Never said it was the point, never thought it should or does. Just stated that he should be more accurate...

And I'm totally with you dude, right on right on!

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

I think its sometimes harder to write copiously about why you liked something than than it is to criticize.

No, it's just hard to like something that sucks.

Know what - I'll even take you up on your challenge.

Copiously write about why you liked Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel; my good fellow.

 

[RPG of the year!!]

Couldn't have said this one better Rosh ...

*cry*

but all the other stuff was quite farfeched. You really believe that no user here has ever badmouthed Bethsoft for no reason? Be objective.

Shocking but true. I've never witnessed a member of the Fallout community badmouthing Bethesda just because. I've seen them badmouthed on account of their loving hatchetwork on TES, their ineptness at cRPG design, their attempts to suppress criticism on 3rd party fansites, spectacularly poor grasp of public speaking, failure to understand Fallout's style of humour, increasing parallels to the FO:BoS debacle, and the entirely justified fear that they're "doing what they do best" in regards to FO3, but none of those quite fall under the category of "blind hate". To put it mildly.

Does anyone here blindly attack Bethesda based on nothing more than a whim, uninfluenced by news coverage and the company's own exalted history after The Toddler turned it into a munchkin circus? According to Big T, that happens all to often. So raise your hands. Don't be shy.

 

[Mick1965]

Does anyone here blindly attack Bethesda based on nothing more than a whim, uninfluenced by news coverage and the company's own exalted history after The Toddler turned it into a munchkin circus? According to Big T, that happens all to often. So raise your hands. Don't be shy.

Not long after I found out about Bethesda winning the FO license I made my first post at NMA. I was rapt that there was going to be another FO and couldn't see what all the fuss was about. Since then I've had a look at what Bethesda do to their games and their fans, and haven't been impressed at all. My feelings towards Bethesda are based purely on what they've done and said. I cannot see this Leopard ever changing its spots.

Mick

 

[sanyok21]

Couldn't have said this one better Rosh ...

*cry*

but all the other stuff was quite farfeched. You really believe that no user here has ever badmouthed Bethsoft for no reason? Be objective.

Shocking but true. I've never witnessed a member of the Fallout community badmouthing Bethesda just because. I've seen them badmouthed on account of their loving hatchetwork on TES, their ineptness at cRPG design, their attempts to suppress criticism on 3rd party fansites, spectacularly poor grasp of public speaking, failure to understand Fallout's style of humour, increasing parallels to the FO:BoS debacle, and the entirely justified fear that they're "doing what they do best" in regards to FO3, but none of those quite fall under the category of "blind hate". To put it mildly.

Does anyone here blindly attack Bethesda based on nothing more than a whim, uninfluenced by news coverage and the company's own exalted history after The Toddler turned it into a munchkin circus? According to Big T, that happens all to often. So raise your hands. Don't be shy.

Well then, Rosh(), I'll explain what you don't seem to comprehend.
I don't question the fact that bethsoft have done quite enough to get bashed. All the points you made abot them being incompetent about various issues are true in essence. Because of that, every time you see a forum member here bash bethesda, you remember how they deserve it so he must be doing it for a real reason, the reasons you see but they don't.

But, again, there were quite enough incidents here and in other communities like DAC and the codex, that mindless trolls have flamed bethesda for no reason. I believe that the existence of bethesda is better than it's non existence. I even believe that it's not an opinion but a fact. The mere chance that they can make a game that all the wait for it will be worthwhile, is enough for me. Actually all the fuss they made all these years have kept all of us busy with it for quite a while if you sum it all up The speculations are sometimes also fun.
So no, I'll not stand still and be quiet when someone claims that every time a "BETHSOFT SUCKKKKS!!!11" shout is heard, it's all good.

 

[bdweller]

I would not be happy if my chance of survival (you know, when the shit hits the fan) was even slightly similar to the chance bethesda has of doing a game that deserves respect.
Just my 2 cents tho.

 

[Bradylama]

There's a difference between arguing without reason and arguing for no reason. There have been statements made on this forum and other boards which are purely inflammatory, and non-critical, but it's not like contempt for Bethesda manifested in a vacuum. People have reasons for the way they behave.

I can agree with Ashley in that a lot of people seem to be acting critical because they think it makes them smart but that's a rhetorical statement and has nothing to do with the actual criticism. He's basically attempting to deflect attention away from criticism by implying that they are "nothing," and describing his own blog entry as "nothing" is just a cop-out.

 

[RPG of the year!!]

Well then, Rosh()

Because of that, every time you see a forum member here bash bethesda, you remember how they deserve it so he must be doing it for a real reason, the reasons you see but they don't.

Ouch! I'm sorry... That's a swing and a miss. No, I remember how at one time or another they themselves have stated their real reasons in literal terms. "Fallout fans hate [insert here] for no reason!" is nothing but another longstanding meme about the community that posesses no practical truth behind it, in the grand tradition of "They hate change!" and "They won't be happy unless FO3 uses the FO1 engine!!! OMG!!!!".

Once again, if any person here dislikes Bethesda for simply no reason at all, I invite them to stand up. I won't bite(unless they call me Roshambo).

But, again, there were quite enough incidents here and in other communities like DAC and the codex, that mindless trolls have flamed bethesda for no reason.

The idea of people trolling NMA, DAC, and the Codex by flaming Bethesda certainly is an amusing thought, I'll give you that. In the same sense that somone attempting to troll Phillip Morris by shouting "Hey guys, don't non-smokers SUCK?" would be hilarious.

But since you're honestly suggesting that, it tells me part of your perspective is seriously off kilter, and you have knee-jerk reactions when a poster states something in the vein of "Bethesda fellates screaming donkey balls" and snap judge them as a 'mindless troll' based on their curtness, even when they have in the past, or promptly thereafter, stated their actual reasons which amount to considerably more than Auntie Beth sucks just because, so there, nyah nyah nyah. That is, if I'm allowed to play 'armchair psychoanalyst' too.

So no, I'll not stand still and be quiet when someone claims that every time a "BETHSOFT SUCKKKKS!!!11" shout is heard, it's all good

When members of the Fallout community actually start believing bullshit memes about the Fallout community, I'm afraid I get a rather foul taste in my mouth.

 

[Davaris]

I believe that the existence of bethesda is better than it's non existence. I even believe that it's not an opinion but a fact. The mere chance that they can make a game that all the wait for it will be worthwhile, is enough for me. .

I agree with you 100% Ashley.

 

[sanyok21]

Well then, Rosh()

Because of that, every time you see a forum member here bash bethesda, you remember how they deserve it so he must be doing it for a real reason, the reasons you see but they don't.

Ouch! I'm sorry... That's a swing and a miss. No, I remember how at one time or another they themselves have stated their real reasons in literal terms. "Fallout fans hate [insert here] for no reason!" is nothing but another longstanding meme about the community that posesses no practical truth behind it, in the grand tradition of "They hate change!" and "They won't be happy unless FO3 uses the FO1 engine!!! OMG!!!!".

Once again, if any person here dislikes Bethesda for simply no reason at all, I invite them to stand up. I won't bite(unless they call me Roshambo).

But, again, there were quite enough incidents here and in other communities like DAC and the codex, that mindless trolls have flamed bethesda for no reason.

The idea of people trolling NMA, DAC, and the Codex by flaming Bethesda certainly is an amusing thought, I'll give you that. In the same sense that somone attempting to troll Phillip Morris by shouting "Hey guys, don't non-smokers SUCK?" would be hilarious.

But since you're honestly suggesting that, it tells me part of your perspective is seriously off kilter, and you have knee-jerk reactions when a poster states something in the vein of "Bethesda fellates screaming donkey balls" and snap judge them as a 'mindless troll' based on their curtness, even when they have in the past, or promptly thereafter, stated their actual reasons which amount to considerably more than Auntie Beth sucks just because, so there, nyah nyah nyah. That is, if I'm allowed to play 'armchair psychoanalyst' too.

So no, I'll not stand still and be quiet when someone claims that every time a "BETHSOFT SUCKKKKS!!!11" shout is heard, it's all good

When members of the Fallout community actually start believing bullshit memes about the Fallout community, I'm afraid I get a rather foul taste in my mouth.

Are you rediculously trying to imply that you remember ALL the posts of EACH SINGLE USER which have has ever bashed bethesda in the last 3 years, in 3 different large communities, and they ALL at some point stated objective and true arguments about Bethsoft doing *enter here* wrong?
Can someone here give me the longest *PLEAAAAAASEEEE* ever?
Unless you have divine memory skills, and assuming I'm arguing with a human being over here, you're lying in order to support your argument.
I'd ask you to prove it(which you can't\will take you ages to try to), but I won't because it is simply not true.
How can't you even see that it's rediculous to even consider that in such a large number of posts of users over the span of 3 years, it's almost impossible from probability point of view. Something like winning the lottory 10 times in a row.
But hey, if you are right Rosh( ), you must have a 10 in the LUCK attribute Roll the DICE!

And no, your example about trolling isn't right. You may not believe it, but not everyone here or at the other communities shares your exact same opinion of bethesda.

 

[Goweigus]

Perhaps hed remember it because he keeps track of things on those sites and would remember a bashing because of its distinct rarity and the sad fact it was bashing presented for no credited reason.

 

[shokki_]

Are you rediculously trying to imply that you remember ALL the posts of EACH SINGLE USER which have has ever bashed bethesda in the last 3 years, in 3 different large communities, and they ALL at some point stated objective and true arguments about Bethsoft doing *enter here* wrong?
...

I believe most of the community has clear reasons why to bash Bethesda. I'm not saying all, because people shouldn't generalize. The reasons may wary too from Bethesda's politics (not communicating with the fans), the fear of raping Fallout because "they're doing what they do best" or many more reasons.

I personally think nobody is against Bethesda for no reason. The fans that are on the boards and follow the news have formed their opinion from what have been officially announced about the game so far. Maybe the pessimistic atmosphere has affected some of their attitudes towards Bethesda, but they still have their reasons why to dislike them. So if people come posting "Bethesda sucks!" I believe they still have reasons for their dislike, even if they're not being very objective.