Some odd "holes" in Fallout 3

[AndreiD]

Chernobyl - Not thousands. The ones who died directly from chernobyl are the ones who went SWIMMING in the reactor to try and solve the problem.

Check again :
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/chernobyl-deaths-180406

60.000 died in the accident / trying to clear the zone of radiation / trying to put out the fires / trying to put the led cap on the reactor and another 93.000 died from cancer and another 270.000 suffer from cancer.

A dirty nuclear bomb can release a lot more radiation than the Chernobyl disaster released.

If anything, in Fallout you should fight with stones and pitchforks (that would be interesting )

 

[Chancellor Kremlin]

Check again :
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/chernobyl-deaths-180406

The important word here is:

The new data, based on Belarus national cancer statistics, predicts approximately 270,000 cancers and 93,000 fatal cancer cases caused by Chernobyl.

Is there any independent verification of this rather high death toll figure? I don't deny many people are probably dying from cancer, but I do doubt their figure that '60.000' people died trying to seal the reactor.

 

[pizzathehut]

Some vaults were pretty much made to die (Vault 12, Vault 106), while some were made to stay isolated for a long time (Vault 13 and Vault 101, except that Vault 13 was supposed to stay locked for 200 years, while Vault 101, I don't know... It was supposed to be locked forever or at least until the Enclave needs them, right?) and some were hit-or-miss (Vault 15, 27, 29, 42, 53). I can't believe all vaults in the capital wastelands were made to die horribly, that would be kinda crazy.

EDIT: Another hole in Fallout 3 is about Megaton and Vault 101. Lemme see... So, we have Megaton, a city full of people armed with guns and they surely have acess to explosives. And then we have Vault 101, a place whose security staff is possibly small, only has stupid 10mm pistols and they can barely fight off some stupid rad-roaches. Heck, I myself teared the security team appart. Alone, with a 10mm pistol.

So the people of Megaton live in a wasteland shit hole near a nuclear bomb while the people of Vault 101 live with technology, comfort and acess to food and water undreamed by any wastelander outside the Brotherhood or Enclave. Vault 101 is about ten minutes of walking from Megaton. They KNOW the Vault exists, the vault has contacted them before. Can someone explain me WHY the dwellers of Megaton never tried to blow the door and take the vault for themselves? The people of Megaton have to drink water from a shitty, old purifier. The people of Vault 101 have a water chip. They don't got a GECK, but fuck that, even without a GECK, with proper ammounts of water, they could've all the food they want. Why Vault 101 was never invaded?! Sure, there are those raiders trying to dig in, but why should they waste their time digging instead of buying a shitload of bombs and blowing that door?

Um... are you serious? The vault already survived a nuclear fucking holocaust. What in the world makes you think that a single A-bomb or a bunch of plastic explosives will do the trick this time around? Also, you forget that in detonating that bomb at the vault, Megaton would also be destroyed. So the people there have to make the following choice:

Stay here in my relative safety with relatively clean water and survive. OR, I could definitely destroy my relative safety and my home for the slight possibility that my single bomb would blow up a vault... which is designed to survive the blasts from nuclear bombs.

What would you choose?!?!?!?! Lets not also forget that if you did manage to blow open the vault with the A-Bomb... you would definitely collapse the mountain thats above it and there is a very high chance that you would destroy what is in the vault outright. After all, if the blast penetrated the door what would be stopping the incinerating heat wave from melting everything within?

 

[Chancellor Kremlin]

Well, the Vaults were usually hidden and underground, or on the side of mountains and such, I don't think they were designed to directly withstand a direct hit from a nuclear missile or explosion.

Also, FOT had a mission where you had to detonate a nuclear device to actually open the door to the vault, and the vault remained intact as only the upper level was destroyed, if even that. Blast doors are generally made to withstand a blast at relatively close range, and I think I read somewhere that NORAD's main blast doors were supposed to withstand an explosion right outside the perimeter of the base.

 

[pizzathehut]

Check again :
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/chernobyl-deaths-180406

The important word here is:

The new data, based on Belarus national cancer statistics, predicts approximately 270,000 cancers and 93,000 fatal cancer cases caused by Chernobyl.

Is there any independent verification of this rather high death toll figure? I don't deny many people are probably dying from cancer, but I do doubt their figure that '60.000' people died trying to seal the reactor.

The city of Chernoble had about 20,000 people in it when it blew. So were already 1/3 of the way there. Im not sure if 40,000 could have died in the ensuing clean up efforts.

 

[Patton89]

Hey All,

I recently began playing Fallout 3 and am enjoying the game greatly. I was afraid that it wouldn't live up to its predecessors and end up being another soulless Oblivion clone. Boy was I wrong!

In any case, there are a few things that nag at me:

1) This is 200 years after nuclear Armageddon and people still wear rags and sleep on dirty mattresses? I don't know about you, but even remote tribes in Africa manage to keep themselves clean. 200 years is a freaking long time, yet the game looks like the bomb went off last weak.

2) Where is the power coming from? No mater where you go, a remote hut out in the middle of the wastes, or the remains of an old subway system, there seems to be a power grid keeping machines humming and lights flickering. Is there some sort of plausible explanation for this, or is this just a bizarre oversight.

What do you all think?

1- Have you not noticed that just about every water source in the world is radioactive? Why in the world would you want to clean yourself with radioactive sewer water?

2- Fallout 2 also had more electricity than one would expect. New Reno... nuff said. We know that the people of the fallout universe have fusion batteries. Scientists believe that a single fusion reactor could power modern civilization with about 50 plants around the world. Given that, the amount of electricity being used in FO3 isnt all that odd. Perhaps the reactors in the vaults are tied into the power grid? Maybe there are semblances of civilization somewhere in the US? Hidden backup reactors the military built underground? The world also has robots who can administer medical attention (see FO2), could robots not be programmed to maintain reactors (and each other)?

I think alot of people are bashing Bethesda for the same "sins" interplay commited years ago. How in the word does New Reno get its power? Really... how? Its a freaking vegas strip complete with flashing lights and a casion thats got game tables, hotel rooms, and is lit up like a damn christmas tree. Mind you, the damn Hoover Dam (tee hee) was built to ensure that Nevada could prosper through the depression, and now sends most of its power directly to Vegas. We also see only about two blocks of New Reno despite the fact that its circle on the FO2 world map takes up a relatively large portion of the map swaure it sits on. So we have to assume New Reno is actually larger than what we play in.

1. water sources in Fallout 2 were relatively safe, compared to fallout 3 . Beth just screwed up this part, they probably never played Fallout and Fallout 2 that much.
2. Micro fusion cells werent cheap you know ? military had em but thats pretty much it. And other option would be generators, which would need maintainance. And no secret reactors in Fallout. Those would be used only to power the installation itself. And How much of the power grid is left after a NUCLEAR WAR ? Even if the NCR was that big, i really doubt that the electricity could somehow go all the way to DC. It would require technicians and the facilities that are necessary were most likely on the top of the bomb-to-nothing list. vault reactors are seperate from the main power grid. Thats the point of the vaults, they are SUPPOSED to be isolated from outside world, in order to survive untill they are opened. And i havent seen robots maintaining anything. If i COULD see them repairing those generators i might actually belive that. But nothing suggest that robots could maintain themselves with out humans making parts and repairing them.

And don't throw New Reno..just like it would explain everything. new reno isn't the best location in Fallout 2. Look NCR, they have generator online. VC has generator.
Den doesnt, so it doesnt have electricity. You can't explain the entire energy from nowhere thing, just based on ONE location in previous game. Reno was crap in that sense, if it had energy plant, then i wouldn't have a problem with it.
And reno was a spoof location really.
Added for the FUN.
And who says the slots use electricity ? they could be purely mechanical. But i really think that if i could remove one location from Fallout 2 it would be Reno. Or at least tha stupid lights.

 

[DJS4000]

Check again :
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/chernobyl-deaths-180406

60.000 died in the accident / trying to clear the zone of radiation / trying to put out the fires / trying to put the led cap on the reactor and another 93.000 died from cancer and another 270.000 suffer from cancer.

A dirty nuclear bomb can release a lot more radiation than the Chernobyl disaster released.

If anything, in Fallout you should fight with stones and pitchforks (that would be interesting )

these numbers are bs. only around 130 people were diagnosed with radiation poisoning, of whom 28 (yes, twenty-eight) died in 1986. mostly firefighters and liquidators. everything that follows is just subject to speculation and estimation. ust an example: an increase in thyroid cancer has been observed. 5000 cases were diagnosed until 2006, most of them presumably caused by radioactive iodine (8 fatalities btw). was this caused by the incident? or was it caused by improved diagnostic procedures, meaning that many cases up until 1986 hadn't even been diagnosed, resulting in lower numbers?

it's not that easy.

oh, and regarding greenpeace. i do not consider them a reliable source. trusting their numbers equals trusting numbers presented by the KKK in my book.

 

[Herbert West]

A dirty nuclear bomb can release a lot more radiation than the Chernobyl disaster released.

What?

Where did you get this BS from. In Chernobyl, approx 2-3% of the reactor core went into the air, and all radiiodines and all of the Xe went into the air. That is one hell of a lot more activity (4EBq), while for example Hirosima got 0,01 EBq of activity, and the combined activity yield of the worlds coal industry was 0,6 EBq/year in 1996, and the Novaja Zemlja bomb had 10Ebq.

By comparison, a dirty bomb sray around a couple of kilograms of fission material, or, at most, a couple of a houndred. Thats a laughable dose compared to Chernobyl.

Also, do not trust GreenWar. They are so heavily biased against atomic power that its beyond funny.

 

[AndreiD]

Well, I did see a nice documentary on Discovery about the Chernobyl incident. The numbers in that documentary were higher than in the Greenpeace web page.
And in a Nuclear Armageddon won't everybody nuke everybody else?
How much radioactive material would that release in the atmosphere?

Btw, did you see how much damage the Hiroshima & Nagasaki bombs do? How about 1000 of those big boys going off, won't that throw us into the stoneage ?

 

[Patton89]

Well, I did see a nice documentary on Discovery about the Chernobyl incident. The numbers in that documentary were higher than in the Greenpeace web page.
And in a Nuclear Armageddon won't everybody nuke everybody else?
How much radioactive material would that release in the atmosphere?

Btw, did you see how much damage the Hiroshima & Nagasaki bombs do? How about 1000 of those big boys going off, won't that throw us into the stoneage ?

Those small fire crackers wouldn't do nothing. Go check tsar bomb. NOW theres bomb. Hydrogen bombs are they way to go

Well as for the radiation, we don't know the type of fission weapons used, or the amount.

and greenpeace always exaggerates. And 56 people have died directly according to WHO and IAEA. So i really wouldn't put much value to the documentary. Around 4000 have got cancer from it. 600 000 were exposed to the radiation. so i really don't believe that nuclear war would lead to total annihilation of mankind. Less so with the vaults in Fallout. If 10 000 people survive, mankind would be able to repopulate the earth in thousands of years.

 

[DJS4000]

. so i really don't believe that nuclear war would lead to total annihilation of mankind. Less so with the vaults in Fallout. If 10 000 people survive, mankind would be able to repopulate the earth in thousands of years.

especially considering advances in pharmacology. there are certain drugs in testing that prevent radiation induced cell death. they enabled lab mice to withstand up to 13 Gy! so it's basically rad-x, if you will.

 

[Trithne]

The "city" of Chernobyl wasn't really much of a city, when you consider it was little more than the reactor and some attached facilities, and Pripyat was where all the workers and their families lived, and it had a population of 40,000, the majority of whom were evacuated/just up and left the place behind.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

Some vaults were pretty much made to die (Vault 12, Vault 106), while some were made to stay isolated for a long time (Vault 13 and Vault 101, except that Vault 13 was supposed to stay locked for 200 years, while Vault 101, I don't know... It was supposed to be locked forever or at least until the Enclave needs them, right?) and some were hit-or-miss (Vault 15, 27, 29, 42, 53). I can't believe all vaults in the capital wastelands were made to die horribly, that would be kinda crazy.

EDIT: Another hole in Fallout 3 is about Megaton and Vault 101. Lemme see... So, we have Megaton, a city full of people armed with guns and they surely have acess to explosives. And then we have Vault 101, a place whose security staff is possibly small, only has stupid 10mm pistols and they can barely fight off some stupid rad-roaches. Heck, I myself teared the security team appart. Alone, with a 10mm pistol.

So the people of Megaton live in a wasteland shit hole near a nuclear bomb while the people of Vault 101 live with technology, comfort and acess to food and water undreamed by any wastelander outside the Brotherhood or Enclave. Vault 101 is about ten minutes of walking from Megaton. They KNOW the Vault exists, the vault has contacted them before. Can someone explain me WHY the dwellers of Megaton never tried to blow the door and take the vault for themselves? The people of Megaton have to drink water from a shitty, old purifier. The people of Vault 101 have a water chip. They don't got a GECK, but fuck that, even without a GECK, with proper ammounts of water, they could've all the food they want. Why Vault 101 was never invaded?! Sure, there are those raiders trying to dig in, but why should they waste their time digging instead of buying a shitload of bombs and blowing that door?

Um... are you serious? The vault already survived a nuclear fucking holocaust. What in the world makes you think that a single A-bomb or a bunch of plastic explosives will do the trick this time around? Also, you forget that in detonating that bomb at the vault, Megaton would also be destroyed. So the people there have to make the following choice:

Stay here in my relative safety with relatively clean water and survive. OR, I could definitely destroy my relative safety and my home for the slight possibility that my single bomb would blow up a vault... which is designed to survive the blasts from nuclear bombs.

What would you choose?!?!?!?! Lets not also forget that if you did manage to blow open the vault with the A-Bomb... you would definitely collapse the mountain thats above it and there is a very high chance that you would destroy what is in the vault outright. After all, if the blast penetrated the door what would be stopping the incinerating heat wave from melting everything within?

I was not talking about using that A-BOMB to explode the door, but using normal explosives to destroy the blast door. Or call someone from somewhere else with L33t skills to open the door. It would be hard, but I'm sure they could buy enough dynamite to do it or call some geek to open it.

Hell, not only the people of Megaton could do that. Talon Company is full of weapons, there's a vault near Megaton and they won't do anything. WTF?!

Also, there's another hole: Why Talon Company is still a mercenary group? What stops them from turning into super-raiders (although they pretty much raiders-for-hire), dominating the region or simply charging nearby towns for "protection"? Talon Company is the strongest group excluding Mutants/BOS/Enclave/Outcasts. They have a fortress FULL of armed soldiers, and EVERY. TALON. MERC. WEARS. COMBAT. ARMOR. Don't ask me where it does come from, though.

 

[Tagaziel]

Um... are you serious? The vault already survived a nuclear fucking holocaust. What in the world makes you think that a single A-bomb or a bunch of plastic explosives will do the trick this time around? Also, you forget that in detonating that bomb at the vault, Megaton would also be destroyed. So the people there have to make the following choice:

Stay here in my relative safety with relatively clean water and survive. OR, I could definitely destroy my relative safety and my home for the slight possibility that my single bomb would blow up a vault... which is designed to survive the blasts from nuclear bombs.

What would you choose?!?!?!?! Lets not also forget that if you did manage to blow open the vault with the A-Bomb... you would definitely collapse the mountain thats above it and there is a very high chance that you would destroy what is in the vault outright. After all, if the blast penetrated the door what would be stopping the incinerating heat wave from melting everything within?

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

There wasn't a nuclear explosin nowhere NEAR Vault 101, so your first point falls. Second, Vault doors, while massive, are designed to withstand the environment and a nuclear blast.

Not against an organized force trying to get in. HAve a look at this vid from Fo1:

[youtube]http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=PfyqlMBeQFU[/youtube]

Notice that the Vault door has been blown open with explosives. Low yield explosives.

Now, what stops the people of Megaton from hiring mercs with explosives and having them explode the older model of the Vault door?

 

[AndreiD]

Judging by the way the door looks like in Fallout 3 I'd say that low yield explosives won't do crap to it.
To me it looks like at least a half of meter thick solid metal door which is bolted shut.
You would need a lot more than just some C4 to knock that down.
Well, that's what I think...
@ Patton89
If I recall right, that bomb had a 50 megaton yield. I think that's enough to blow up a little province.
And if also I recall right, it was originally designed to have 100 megatons but they reduced it to 50 so it won't rad the place up.
And that was in 1961!!!!

 

[Patton89]

@ Patton89
If I recall right, that bomb had a 50 megaton yield. I think that's enough to blow up a little province.
And if also I recall right, it was originally designed to have 100 megatons but they reduced it to 50 so it won't rad the place up.
And that was in 1961!!!!

Yep. The monster was designed to be 100 megatons, they had to make the yeild lower to awaid the radiation from screwing up cities. I remember that they had to use more impure materials to achieve that effect.
H-Bombs <3

 

[DJS4000]

And if also I recall right, it was originally designed to have 100 megatons but they reduced it to 50 so it won't rad the place up.
And that was in 1961!!!!

they reduced the yield because the effects of a 100 megaton airburst were unpredictable then, not because of the radiation (even the 50MT version broke windows in finland). airbursts generate comparatively little fallout.
besides, the fact that one can increase the yield of nuclear weapons virtually limitless had been known since 1951.

edit:

Yep. The monster was designed to be 100 megatons, they had to make the yeild lower to awaid the radiation from screwing up cities. I remember that they had to use more impure materials to achieve that effect.
H-Bombs <3

they simply lined the thing with lead instead of another fusion stage.

 

[Tagaziel]

Judging by the way the door looks like in Fallout 3 I'd say that low yield explosives won't do crap to it.
To me it looks like at least a half of meter thick solid metal door which is bolted shut.
You would need a lot more than just some C4 to knock that down.
Well, that's what I think...

Same went for the newer model used in West Coast Vaults. Yet the mutants had no problems gaining entry. You severely underestimate the power of explosives, especially in so advanced a world as Fallout.

 

[LogisticEarth]

There's a big difference between a nuclear blast hitting a massive steel door, and an organized attempt to breach to door with tools and high explosives. Even a door designed to take a direct nuclear blast can and will fail if you drill into it's mechanism and pack that hole with explosives.

 

[AndreiD]

Well, some thermite would eat it's way into that door, but the overseer has a camera in front of the door, it's not like he won't see what's happening.
Btw, in the school near Vaul 101 there is a raider tunnel, and if you read the terminal on the last floor of the school you can see that the raiders were trying to get into the vault but their workers got eaten by ants