Spin it, baby!

[Ozrat]

Hmm, this reminds me of the Titanic with a twist.

So lets say that Titanic is being built as we speak. At the port there has been icebergs aplenty and a hurricane that has lasted a full year so far. The builders of the ship decide "Bah! This boat will never sink! Let's just get rid of the weather man so we don't have to listen to this negative tripe anymore!" So the boat is still under construction despite complete doom waiting for it to set sail. Ah, ignorance is bliss.

I suppose that this could be slightly modified to fit the scenario better... Instead of "Titanic", this is the bastardized sequel called "TIT-acular!" Nudie bars on every ship level! 4,000 billion horsepower engine! And the list goes on....

 

[Briosafreak]

I quoted you here: Hey, Techwiz

I uhhh... hope you don't mind.

That thread was deleted after i posted there. What a surprise...

 

[Roshambo]

That thread was deleted after i posted there. What a surprise...

Remember, "feedback forum" only means "mindlessly kissing Chuck's and DreckWiz's ass" and "only good feedback of the game".

 

[DarkUnderlord]

What do you do when a thread gets deleted? Why you make a new one of course.

Let's see how long that lasts.


Here it is below, in the likely event that it's deleted, again.
------------------------
TOPIC: So... What's the policy on banning people?

They were banned for sending trolly email & other crap. Get the facts straight.

I won't tolerate this kinda crap. People that send this kinda crap aren't welcome here.

They can claim all they want that "they" didn't send the email. Interesting how I have logs of email that they send into the company.

Here's one from Killzig

From killzig@duckandcover.net Tue Apr 15 21:28:23 2003
Received: from
by server2.future-host.com with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1)
id 195cjO-0002A5-00; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:33:02 -0400
Message-ID: <000801c303c0$86eeb1a0$6101a8c0@DrDevice>
From: "Andy \"Killzig\" Black" <Killzig@duckandcover.net>
To: <x@x.com>
Cc: <proverbius@rpgcodex.com>
Subject: Feargus
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:33:10 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3039E.FE693650"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server2.future-host.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - interplay.com
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - duckandcover.net

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3039E.FE693650
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey, Frenchie, Chris Avellone told us that Feargus Urquhart quit because =
you're a cheese sucking surrender monkey asshat. What do you have to say =
about that one?!

So you're saying that Saint_Proverbius was banned because he was CC'd on an e-mail Killian sent? Right. So if I send an e-mail to Chucky and CC yourself, will you get banned?

Evidence of what Saint Prooverbius did would be nice. Pull out one of those hateful e-mails he sent after he was unbanned and give us the run-down. So far, the e-mails I've seen have been pretty placid.

While you're at it, you can also point out why the three-strike policy wasn't followed.

Ban/Censure/IP Removal: The Interplay boards operate under a simple 3-strike system. In general, each situation is different and requires careful consideration based on the degree of the offence, as well as the severity. If censure proves inadequate, a ban will be utilised for the most grievous of offenders. Censure/Ban may include ALL accounts a member may posses - abuse of this may result in a permanent IP ban.

If someone is banned, it is understood that the following opportunity to create a new account falls under the follow auspices: i) creating a new account with a similar name is not allowed, and; ii) In addition, once a member's account has been banned - there is an immediate period of probabtion. If in that time (defined by the previous infraction and determined on a per case basis) a member continues with a new persona to post in a manner contrary to the Rules, no further warning will be issued, and that member will be IP banned.

As we've been told, the first time Saint was banned was because of his avatar. Which was a cartoony image of Tim Cain holding Chucky's head on a silver platter.

He was then unbanned. Then he was banned again because of that e-mail Killian sent before he was unbanned.

Timeline of Events:
April 15: Killzig sent the bad email.
April 18: KraziKatt unbanned Saint_Proverbius.
April 19: Saint_Proverbius resumed posting.
April 23: Saint_Proverbius was rebanned and Killzig was banned.
April 25: TechWiz announces Killzig and Saint_Proverbius were banned because of the email dated April 15th. Also, Saint_Proverbius was rebanned because KraziKatt didn't tell TechWiz he was unbanned.

I'd just like an explanation. That's all.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

S_P has a history of trolling and spamming.

I like this one a whole lot. Considering the majority of my posts are multiple paragraphs, it's kind of hard to even remotely claim that I've even spammed. After all, spam is generally a quick reply, usually a sentence or two and often less, so writing half a page or so pretty much disqualifies that statement right off the bat. A prime example of spamming would actually be Minsc's reply in that very same thread with:

• He's giving you massages?! And your complaining?

Nevermind that Minsc is poking fun at 388's typo while screwing up your with you're. IRONY.

As for trolling, that's a pretty funny statement. Am I critical of Interplay? You betcha. Guess what, ask around some developers and see what they think of Interplay's management. Ask some press people while you're at it. You'd have to be utterly blind to not notice how poorly that company's been run for the last several years. Fallout Enforcer is just one example of how poorly that company is being handled, but it's a fairly glaring one.

Other examples might including selling off the Hunter license to Vivendi and running out and purchasing Exalted. How about selling other license rights rather than just trying to make decent games to stay afloat? Spending four years making Run Like Hell, which tanked hard, is prime material for criticism and even mirrors Daikatana in terms of failure. How about how they botched the release of Icewind Dale 2, there's a lovely one! There's also skipping that payment to Infogrames dealing with the D&D rights which is a fairly large WHOOPS! Speaking of payments, guess how much Titus spent buying up shares of IPLY stock to gain control of the company and to prop up stock prices to remain on NASDAQ.

The best part is that even after all the streamlining and other fun that Interplay's done over the last several years, they're still losing money. The only quarters Interplay made money last year were the ones where they sold off the NWN contract as well as the quarter where they sold Shiny. Of course, they released a nice press release about how they've had two profitable quarters, but the quarters that followed were both in the red.

So, am I critical of Interplay? How could you not be?

The big problem with all this is Interplay actually has a good deal of talent with people like JE Sawyer, MCA, and several others. They also have some really great intellectual property like Fallout. Both are absolutely going to waste because the company is so poorly run.

Imagine how much money they've blown on Fallout Enforcer, which has been poorly recieved by the gaming community in general. It's been banned not only by the Fallout community, but even printed magazines like Joystick and the much larger PC Gamer. Every time they release a snip of PR, it blows up in their face. It's a bad investment all around, a poor use of the license itself.

Now, imagine how much money they've blown on this Exalted license. How many people have even heard of that license? I doubt many have since it's not even a popular license for White Wolf compared to the World of Darkness licenses.

Now we know the Jefferson engine was designed with eventually making a Fallout 3.. Imagine if they'd made Fallout 3 along side what they're making with Jefferson, using the same engine, and the money they're pissing away with buying no name licenses and poorly done console trend chasers.

So, yeah, I'm critical of Interplay's choices. There's a lot of people out there that are and with good reason.

 

[Briosafreak]

What do you do when a thread gets deleted? Why you make a new one of course.

Let's see how long that lasts.

Didn`t last long...

 

[Briosafreak]

And yet again they are thinking of bringing the FOBOS forum back
http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=9360&start=15

and every post about Saint and Killzig will be deleted or locked, as it`s stated on the thread on DarkUnderlord post.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

This is great! Per this thread:

Again as stated originally:

Saint was banned for using Chucks picture as an avatar.
Killzig for the email.

Simple as that.

No you don't get a warning for that kinda crap.

But, per a much older thread:

Actually, it is. Go read the annoucement. It was more the email he was sending than the avatar.

Apparently old TechWiz doesn't know the first rule of a cover up, consistancy.

Yes I have numerous emails as well from Saint harrasing employees for info on different subjects.

This takes the motherfucking cake, right here. The only thing even remotely CLOSE to this I've done was when I got email about Feargus quitting and I emailed JE Sawyer, Feargus, and Chris Avellone asking them if it was true and what the deal was. I got replies from two of them, and the third has been pretty tight lipped on the situation.

Were they harrassing? Judge for yourself, this one is to MCA:

• From: proverbius@rpgcodex.com [mailto:proverbius@rpgcodex.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 6:51 PM
  To: Avellone, Chris
  Subject: Hey Chris!
  
  
  Chris,
  
  What's this I'm hearing about Feargus quitting?

To Josh Sawyer:

• From: Self <proverbius@rpgcodex.com>
  To: "Sawyer, Josh" <*******@BlackIsle.com>
  Subject: Tax Day Mayhem
  Date sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:17:08 -0400
  
  J.E.,
  
  Hey, what's this I'm hearing about Feargus leaving BIS? If it's true,
  that's really unhappy dance stuff.

Lastly, to the Big Cheese:

• From: Self <proverbius@rpgcodex.com>
  To: "Urquhart, Feargus" <******@blackisle.com>
  Subject: Testing!
  Date sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:13:28 -0400
  
  Feargus,
  
  What's up with this silliness about you quitting, man?
  
  If it's true, remember the words of Homer Simpson.
  
  "You don't quit your job if you don't like it, boy. You just go in every
  day and do it really half assed. It's the American Way."

Do any of those look even remotely harrassing? There's not one iota of harrassment there. In fact, because I do gaming news for two sites, it's kind of expected that I get confirmation on these subjects! Chris Taylor once rebuked Kreegle and I for that whole Micro Forte lay off thing for posting about it without getting several confirmations, even though it was true. It's what you do. When there's a big story breaking, you have to pin down the facts on the matter, especially since IPLY is a public company.

I posted the rumor, then I sought out confirmation.. That's a bad thing now? What a joke.

If that's harrassment, then it's about time they banned all the people working for gaming sites from the forum, because when something like this breaks.. Well.. You're going to get people from those sites "harrassing" people for confirmation on those subjects. It's called GOOD JOURNALISM.

 

[Odin]

and I just had to say my peace... I'm too soft, Rosh teach ME!!

 

[Briosafreak]

TechWizz reopened the thread

Ok, after going back through my posts I do see where I said I banned SaintP for email. That was wrong. I did say that & I was wrong about that. The avatar thing was the original reason I banned him. I apologize for that error. The email I was thinkin of wasn't from Saint_Proverbius, at the time I stated that.

My mistake there. He was confused with another person that had sent some email. I later cleared that up after talking to the proper people. THe banned still stayed for the avatar usage. Puny as it may be.

I will continue to look back through my posts & clear up whatever I stated or mistated.

Eheh, clear up, eheh...

 

[Roshambo]

Eheh, clear up, eheh...

As in, backtrack for whatever bullshit he was caught at and blame it on confustion or whatever.

So it was the avatar. Which other people had and weren't banned for.

Other people were banned for having something in their sig, but Chuck's Bitch doesn't get banned for the exact same thing and starting that in the first place.

TechWizz is a fine example of a corporate drama whore. Unfortunately, as a liability.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Heh. This just gets funnier and funnier. Ya just gotta love Hiro.

Topic is locked now. Damn, just as I was posting this too.

S_P has a history of trolling and spamming.

Going by the definition of trolling brought up earlier, this doesn't make any sense. Trolling was said to be raising an issue and not sticking with it. Anything Saint_Proverbius had to say, he said it and he backed it up, with multiple paragraphs. As for Saint_Proverbius spamming. You are joking, right?

He's giving you massages?! And your complaining?

You see, this bit right here is spam. Saint_Proverbius did as much spamming as yourself, if any.

If I post something really bad like a porn site will I be instantly banned or do I have two strikes left? I think you should be able to work that one out DarkUnderlord.

In what way, shape or form does pornography have to do with this? Has Saint_Proverbius posted any pornographic material? Was his avatar pornographic?

Your example is irrelevant. If I change my avatar to something offensive, I would've thought the admins altering the avatar and giving a warning would be appropriate, not an outright ban. I understand this is what's has happened before with offensive avatars.

Although I must say I find it odd that you can have a picture of bouncing breasts as an avatar... Isn't that mildly pornographic? Even if it is soft-core?

And you have been given explanations, it seems you haven't received the explanation you wan't.

As has been stated in this thread, the explanations given at the time didn't match the evidence.

I'm not missing the point. 388 claimed Techwiz falsified the email. That's fact. Not who got banned. Now what I want to know is how 388 knows Techwiz falsified the email. He has yet to prove his claim. Minsc even wanted to know how it was falsified in the other thread as well. So I'm not alone with this.

I also understood that the e-mail was claimed to be falsified, when it wasn't. 388 was wrong about that.

SP and Killzig have no one to blame but themselves, the rules are there to read so if they are ignorant the only fault is there own.

Wait, are we talking about those same rules that mention the 3 strikes and you're out thing?

Saint was banned for using Chucks picture as an avatar.

I know your error has been pointed out about this, but going by that statement, if I use a picture of Chris Avellone as my avatar, I get banned immediately? So how come when several people used Chucky as their avatar, they weren't banned at all? Quite a few people in fact.

No problem. I have read forums at NMA before and other sites but don't go there that often so didn't know him. Interesting that this topic is bringing people over here though. Let's hope some of this discussion has some effect on Interplay for the better. There wouldn't be so many questions on this issue of banning if it hadn't been handled in the way that it was.

Exactly.

I'd like a consistent implementation of policy please.

Hey Kharn, have you seriously looked over the whole situation and considered the people who have been banned made a mistake? It is possible.

If they have, then let's hear the real reasons and see the evidence so we can all go "Oh, okay then. I see, Saint_Proverbius was a troll/spammer/bad person. My bad."

As has been said, the excuses offered so far make little sense, lack consistency and have changed about three times now.

It's interesting that Saint_Proverbius was unbanned by Krazikatt too. I think the admins need to talk to each other a bit more.

Why did Krazikatt unban you Saint? Did he give any reason?

 

[Brother None]

Heh, someone should just start a new thread. It's getting to be a habit and rather funny, like an infinite loop.

I haven't even had the time to mention that I've been lurking about these threads for some time and that I'm well aware of what is going on.

Oh well...

 

[Briosafreak]

Why did Krazikatt unban you Saint? Did he give any reason?

You mean she right?

I haven't even had the time to mention that I've been lurking about these threads for some time and that I'm well aware of what is going on.

I finnaly had a good laugh with that Apes thing you posted Kahrn, boy did i need it

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Why did Krazikatt unban you Saint? Did he give any reason?

Because I'm a long standing member of the Fallout community was her reason. Still odd it took five days for TechWiz to reban me considering there was a big post about it in the moderator/admin forum, since the current reason for my re-banning is once again my avatar.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

BTW, this is a clip of the IRC log where TechWiz showed up in #fallout:

• [Glorious729] Why don't you talk?
  [Glorious729] we want to hear what you say
  [Undecided] you wanna hear what I have to say
  [Undecided] ok
  [Undecided] this is what I just msg Saint_Proverbius with
  [Undecided] 18:30] [Undecided] ok
  [Undecided] [18:30] [Undecided] the email stated as to why I banned you was wrong on my part
  [Undecided] [18:30] [Undecided] I did see that in my posts
  [Undecided] [18:31] [Undecided] it was a mistake at the time. I banned you for the avatar actually, puny as you many thing
  [Undecided] [18:31] [Undecided] think
  [Undecided] [18:31] [Undecided] as for you email
  [Undecided] [18:31] [Undecided] well
  [Undecided] [18:31] [Undecided] I have every piece you email you sent into the company for the last 3 years
  [Undecided] [18:31] [Undecided] yes it takes time to go through thats why killzig was banned 15 days later
  [Undecided] [18:32] [Undecided] I don't care if your on the forums or not. But I have read numerous posts where your bashing the company & what not
  [Undecided] so lets talk shall we

You know, I find it extra creepy they're digging through three years worth of my correspondance with BIS people to look for dirt.

I find it even more humorous that my email accounts are currently banned from Interplay's email server when I was banned from the forum for my avatar.

I think this has a lot to do with them searching for people leaking me info from there than anything else, like Feargus quitting.

Interplay wasn't a fun place to work before, imagine how fun it is now that they're playing FIND THE MOLE.