Suggestion on how Obsidian could make Fallout without breaking copyright laws.

Jogre

Jogre

So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
As we all know, Chris Avellone has came out and said that Obsidian wont be doing another Fallout game. I don't know about you guys, but I see a huge amount of injustice in that. They understand Fallout much better, they are made up of the minds that worked on the first 2 and New Vegas, all of which were incredible, they had plans for Van Buren, the game that should have been.

Anyone else think its's incredibly unfair that whoever has the money has the franchise?, Well I do, so here's a suggestion on how Obsidian could get there franchise back. The answer is: Exodus.

Exodus is what was originally a Fallout tabletop, but was changed after they were no longer allowed the rights to produce it. If you read it, it is essentially the biggest possible rip off of Fallout ever: You've essentialy got Ghuls, Transgenetic Mutants, the Chi, Reno, The Discipleship of Steel, Rad-Tek shelters, ect.

So, if Exodus is 100% legal, that means that Obsidian can essentially rip off Bethesda in every way, shape and form without breaking a single copyright law.

So here's the plan. Firstly, what if Chris Avellone were to produce a series of documents or something saying that he would personally, if he had control, make FO3 and FO4 Semi-canon, and declare the non-canon parts. Chris has always cared a lot about Fallout lore, so nobody would look twice, and since he's not Bethesda, it wouldn't hold any official canonical weight. It would essentially be Fanon, yet we could treat it as Canon

Secondly, what if they were to decide to reuse the Fallout 1 and 2 engine, but with a few obvious tweaks. They first made the engine as a universal GURPS , so I doubt Bethesda owns the engine along with Fallout. If they don't own SPECIAL, they could easily just go: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, Luck, which would be like SPECIAL, but not as clever. That way, Obsidian could produce games without making a separate engine.

Then, what if Obsidian Entertainment got the rights to produce an Exodus game, and then obviously ripped off Fallout in really obvious ways. Like I highly doubt that Bethesda could do anything about "The New Calibornian Retublic", or "Seesaws Leegon" . They could do it in such a way, that it's even more based off of Fallout than Exodus is.

And now here's the brilliant part. How many times have you seen My Little Pony sue the creators of Fallout Equestria mods?, Or Doctor Who produces suing people who make Dalek Mods?, None, because if it's a free mod made by someone separate from the company. So surely that means that if one of the producers, while working on the project, made a separate version of all the dialogue, and kept the animation frames from the originals, and then shortly after became an independent modder, not working for Obsidian, and released the actual dialogue and sprites as a fanmade mod. Bethesda can't sue, and there not breaking any copyright laws, it's essentially just a fanmade mod because the game reminded some folks of Fallout so much.

If there are any legal problems with this, please point them out, I don't think there are, but I wan't to be on the safe side.
 
Unfortunately any project of significant "value" would have intellectual property lawyers bouncing around like kangaroos on ecstasy.

Where property B has elements that are 'comparable' to property A the law would still consider it to be breach of copyright, especially if property B was brought about specifically to be marketable to an audience that property A would consider to be in control of.

Regardless of the names, styling etc... If a game is made and released which 'looks a lot like' Fallout it would be shut down and vast sums of money would be requested in losses / royalties.

An example: Apply Vs Samsung, because a phone had corners that 'looked similar' -- Intellectual property is big money.
 
Hm, the only way I see Obsidian working on another Fallout or Falloutish property is if they allow Bethesda to fuck with them with ridiculous restrictions or, if they make a Wasteland game. They could of course also create an entirely original Post-Apocalyptic RPG, but they'd have to scrap all the existing factions and ideas.
 
Bethesda owns Fallout and all that entails so no NCR, Legion, BOS, etc. However BGS does not own the post-apocalyptic genre, California, etc. So as long as Obsidian stayed away from any references to Fallout they would be fine, no matter how much of a fit BGS threw. They would also need to show "Substantial similarities" http://www.americanbar.org/groups/y...ce_series/part_2_elements_of_a_copyright.html

"The traditional test for substantial similarity requires a subjective, factual analysis called the “audience test.” Its goal is to determine whether an ordinary observer, “unless he set out to detect the disparities [between the works], would be disposed to overlook them, and regard their aesthetic appeal as the same.”[1] The test exists in several incarnations and is also called the “ordinary observer test.” Another routinely cited statement of the audience test, originally articulated in the context of music, is “whether defendant took from plaintiff’s works so much of what is pleasing to the ears of lay listeners, who comprise the audience for whom such popular music is composed, that defendant wrongfully appropriated something which belongs to the plaintiff.”[2] The audience test, therefore, essentially asks whether the defendant wrongly copied enough of the plaintiff’s protected expression to cause a reasonable lay observer to immediately detect the similarities between the plaintiff’s expression and the defendant’s work, without any aid or suggestion from others."

There is no way if Obsidian made an isometric post-apocalyptic game that BGS would sue them successfully, because while as fans we would see the similarities the average observer wouldn't.
 
I thought Bethesda owned the rights to Fallout 1 & 2 as well, if the average observer test was done on a hypothetical Fallout ripoff and, one of the original 2 I'm sure the observer would identify some similarities.
Besides, Bethesda has a history of frivolous lawsuits, they've won most of them if I remember correctly.
 
I doubt if Obsidian made a game in that genre they would use anything that would infringe on BGS' IP's. Yes if Obsidian made Fellout: an apocalyptic game where you play a role, then yes I see lawsuits a plenty. BGS does not own the genre, and as we see with games like Underrail it's possible to create a game in the genre without it being Fallout. The problem is fans don't really want an Obsidian post-apocalyptic game, they want an Obsidian Fallout and that doesn't seem likely.
 
Obsidian should just come up stuff of their own and build new property with the same design goals and ideals as Fallout was, if something Fallout-like was what they wanted to make. I see little benefit in trying squirm and ploy around the old setting.
 
I will be blunt.
Obsidian should not make any Fallout games or rip-offs of them, the first would just make them have to be Bethesda's lap-pet and the second would just make them look bad or desperate enough to get into the "Fallout profit train".

Obsidian should make what they want and they have been doing it quite well, they have been making fantasy games and I know many people are tired of the genre and there are not enough good post-apoc RPGs around, but I think Obsidian should just distance themselves from Bethesda and Fallout for good.

They are their own company and this talk about them and Bethesda/Fallout just seems to make it feel like they are smaller than they deserve, no need to keep wanting them to go back to the past, they did that with FNV and although it is one of the best RPGs I ever played they are still criticised and compared to Fallout 3 and 4 and that is not fair...

I rather them doing their own thing from now on.
 
I'd prefer a new IP that just rips of the design principles and a large part of the gameplay of the original Fallouts. (SPECIAL, traits, mumerous amounts of skills, perks, overworld map that you can freely travel on with map nodes, turn-based combat, that sort of stuff) (As to design principles, basically what Fallout was meant to do, show off a post-apocalyptic world and how it works and functions, what has been born out of the atomic ashes and explore humanities struggles to thrive and build something new in this outlaw-land, to focus on character skill over player skill, to care for the lore)

Set it in a post-apocalyptic setting again, do the whole nuclear warfare, come up with something different than Vault-Tek and shit like that and as to the 50's spin? Use something different, like take inspiration from The Warriors, a culture that continued on well into the future of heavy tribalism where the country is an anthill of splinter factions that after the nuclear war removed the law and order there was no one to stop any of them from taking over and so the ones that have survived became even more tribalistic(?) and we get to explore how their cultures work and how they clash with one another.

But a Schmallout? No thanks. That's just poking the beehive, except this beehive is full of rabid vampiric wasps that is out for blood. Obsidian would be wise to not poke that. A new IP on the other hand? Bethesda doesn't own post-apoc settings. They don't own a spin on culture. They don't own the way SPECIAL is set up and so long as they use a different name and stats for it there's nothing they can do.
 
i really want a new post-apocalyptic genre set after what supposed to be "cyberpunk" world. if you playing deus ex, i think "the collapse" fit with this
 
I agree with @Risewild here, Obsidian shouldn't make another Fallout game. Bethesda already got it's grimey fingers all inside fallout, as we saw with New Vegas. I think Obsidian should make it's own post apocalyptic game much like what was said in an interview with Josh Sawyer a while back. Not have it be fallout but something darker as outlined below.

I think there are elements also scary and exciting idea that the society of the 21st century does not collapse quickly, but will continue to degenerate slowly as they age. One hypothesis less apocalyptic and more dystopian. Dysfunctions that we can see today on the news but magnified and accelerated by the passage of other decades. I think these fears are interconnected to our thoughts today and more interesting to explore. But to be honest I continue to be interested for future environments that are neither optimistic nor pessimistic: worlds where humans have suffered numerous catastrophes but they made it and have adapted to the new conditions of life. For how fragile our existence, we are masters of adaptation. We do not need a world plagued by war and darkness to explore the ways in which we can face the challenges of the future.
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I think this is what we should have from Obsidian, something more intelligent.
 
Just have Obsidian work with inXile to make Wasteland 3.

Make it exactly how they would make a Fallout game, from the player freedom, to the gameplay, a good story, and so on.

There are enough similarities in both games (setting and faction wise) to show us what a new Fallout game could look like.

And then, when least expected, murder the Bethesda staff and take back the reigns.

EDIT: Actually, scratch Wasteland. I have lost interest in Wasteland 2 because the setting is so mundane... Obsidian should just create a new post-apocalyptic game altogether.
 
All I know is if Obsidian and InXile make one more high fantasy-type of game before making a post apocalyptic or space game I'm going to nerd rage hard and you will never hear the end of my complaining and impotent rage.
 
Lucas9 said:
Just have Obsidian work with inXile to make Wasteland 3.

Make it exactly how they would make a Fallout game, from the player freedom, to the gameplay, a good story, and so on.

There are enough similarities in both games (setting and faction wise) to show us what a new Fallout game could look like.

And then, when least expected, murder the Bethesda staff and take back the reigns.

EDIT: Actually, scratch Wasteland. I have lost interest in Wasteland 2 because the setting is so mundane... Obsidian should just create a new post-apocalyptic game altogether.
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yeah, the bleak stuff in wasteland 2 just too...comical to believeable
 
Did you play Wasteland 1?
If anything, Wasteland 2 has toned down the comedic and wacky aspects.
 
Mr Fish said:
Did you play Wasteland 1?
If anything, Wasteland 2 has toned down the comedic and wacky aspects.
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How could I forget the rabbit dude throwing tomatoes at me.

Wasteland is, IMO, too comical for its own good... There's humor, and then there's "let's try to get a laugh out of the player at every possible instance."

Wasteland 2 is a bad case of a game that doesn't allow me to be immersed into the world when at every turn and at every item description I continue to be reminded I'm playing a game.

And it's a shame, since it has a lot of cool things going for it, but wacky item descriptions ain't one of them. I prefer Fallout's "describe everything as if it is the most interesting thing ever" approach.
 
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wasteland 2...what a definition of shiny flawed diamond

then i realize its not obsidian or black isle the developer
 
I loved Wasteland 2. I don't care how much of a bugged mess it is (although I hope by now some of the major bugs have been fixed). It's a wonderful game and has a wonderful atmosphere. Mark Morgan's soundtrack was amazing, the writing was good, and it managed to be both immersive/serious while maintaining a sense of humor.

It is easily one of the most compelling and entertaining RPGs I've ever played and I'm definitely going to be playing it again. I just wish it was a bit more polished.
 
I'm still holding out for another InXile and Obsidian collaboration. Although I would love to see a new "Fallout" by the actual creators, it just isn't going to happen. Bethesda's too greedy. They'd probably find some way to sue Obsidian regardless. They sued Notch (creator of Minecraft) for using the word "Scrolls" as the title for his card game that had absolutely nothing to do with The Elder Scrolls franchise. I don't even think it was a fantasy medieval style card game. No, I dreamed a dream and that dream is dead. All I can do now is wait for Wasteland 3 and hope Obsidian is involved in its production like they were with Wasteland 2.

To quote your last thread, RIP Fallout.

 
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I don't really want Wasteland to turn into Fallout in terms of gameplay though. There are some flaws with Wasteland's mechanics which I would like to see improved but I don't really want it to turn into the same kind of experience that Fallout was. Fallout was more protagonist focused. Wasteland is squad-focused. Buuuuuut... I would like a Wasteland spin-off that is like Fallout.

Think of it like a reverse Fallout Tactics.

Wasteland is the main series and then there'd be Wasteland: Reverse Tactics which is more in line with Fallout. No need for a whole new IP when they could just expand upon the Wasteland IP and flesh its lore and world out more. But at the same time I don't want Wasteland to turn into what Fallout once was because they're not the same series. A spin-off series that is canon on the other hand would be fine with me.
 
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