Super Mutants
- Thread starter Eternal
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Well apparently trying to make a distinction between the smarter and dumber ones in New Vegas at least (See: Tabitha.) However the major problem that arises is the fact that no matter how smart they look in dialogue, if you attack them all you'll get is a dumb AI Mutant 
What would be interesting is if they scripted Super Mutants in a way that they'll actually plan ahead with some Super Mutants set to ambush you if you attempt anything. Makes you have to plan while also making them a bit more of a challenge.
What would be interesting is if they scripted Super Mutants in a way that they'll actually plan ahead with some Super Mutants set to ambush you if you attempt anything. Makes you have to plan while also making them a bit more of a challenge.nemetoad said:However the major problem that arises is the fact that no matter how smart they look in dialogue, if you attack them all you'll get is a dumb AI Mutant
This.
Fawkes had such awesome dialog when you first meet him but after Vault 87 he became a giant green retard shooting lasers to the sky and yelling "yeeeeaaaarrggghhhhh!!!1!"
There's ways around that too though. Probably would require a duck-and-cover system to be in place though, meaning a need for a more complicated combat system and AI capabilities. I only suggest that because...well, how does one show "smarts" in combat if their only limits are to run, fire, or yell?
And not just the Super Mutants, anything above the level of an animal should have some kind of tactical AI.
It would be really nice if the various different groups and factions had their own tactics.
Raiders would for example be less disciplined while mercenaries would resort to military style tactics.
It would be really nice if the various different groups and factions had their own tactics.
Raiders would for example be less disciplined while mercenaries would resort to military style tactics.
Visually you somewhat get a hierarchy, but yeah. Honestly I'd like to see a blend of sub-factions myself and visually distinct territories. In Fallout 3 I didn't mind the Raiders so much as their presentation of what appeared to be aggressive punks that are all apparently permanently on some paranoia-induced drugs. Sort of can tolerate it what with the various Vaults in the area that had lead to the "Crazies" developing.
What I'd like to see is clear and distinct weapons, armors, heck even graffiti and tattoos separating one group from another. Have it so each gang of Raiders has their own central base, leaders, tactics/equipment and also source of said wares. Sure, it may end up where the Raiders are still mindless killers for the most part, but at least you have to adjust to their tactics instead of having most of them use SMGs with a few carrying flamethrowers.
Tactics themselves will not exist though unless they script outside the random generations. Fallout 3 did do quite a bit of interesting "special" encounters that do help develop certain generics a bit more. An example would be... the bomb wastelander, who blew up due to Raiders rigging him into a trap. Or examples such as Slavers chasing after escapees. Things like these develop an enemy group a bit more, but really shouldn't just be a "special" encounter. If you want the Super Mutants to act more intelligent, have them scripted to bait you in the areas that you'll normally encounter them instead of it just being a random thing you walk in on. Or do give them scripted duck-and-cover capabilities. Sure, it may run into some problems, but considering the fact I've already seen NPCs run off to where they consider themselves "Safe" I don't think a cover option isn't that far away.
What DOES make the Super Mutants gain more ground towards their original intimidating forms was one of the previews of New Vegas - Nightkin, specifically. Their return is great and the "melee" form's execution during the video stunned me and actually terrified me. There's nothing like the image of someone blasting away a Super Mutant, the body clearly falling to the ground.... and then the "Real" mutant suddenly popping into your visuals right in front of you to break your teeth and part of your skull. If Obsidian continues this trend of making enemies intimidating due to special tactics and abilities that each has, we'll have a bit more diversity than Hulk-smash angry at everything mutants/raiders/random small children.
Edit: On another note, I think I found what we have to blame for the Super Mutants appearing and acting like they do in Fallout 3: The Xbox "Brotherhood of Steel" game. I recently reread the manual of the copy I own and it describes FEV result in experiments turning aggressive, being insane, and having a degraded intelligence - this being FEV prior to scientists experimenting on it more. Also, the "Super Orc" asthetic apparently spawned in that game too. So shame, Bethesda, for basing their Super Mutants on a game that so many people had already hated D: I find the thing fun still though. Lack of Cattleprod made me sad though.
What I'd like to see is clear and distinct weapons, armors, heck even graffiti and tattoos separating one group from another. Have it so each gang of Raiders has their own central base, leaders, tactics/equipment and also source of said wares. Sure, it may end up where the Raiders are still mindless killers for the most part, but at least you have to adjust to their tactics instead of having most of them use SMGs with a few carrying flamethrowers.
Tactics themselves will not exist though unless they script outside the random generations. Fallout 3 did do quite a bit of interesting "special" encounters that do help develop certain generics a bit more. An example would be... the bomb wastelander, who blew up due to Raiders rigging him into a trap. Or examples such as Slavers chasing after escapees. Things like these develop an enemy group a bit more, but really shouldn't just be a "special" encounter. If you want the Super Mutants to act more intelligent, have them scripted to bait you in the areas that you'll normally encounter them instead of it just being a random thing you walk in on. Or do give them scripted duck-and-cover capabilities. Sure, it may run into some problems, but considering the fact I've already seen NPCs run off to where they consider themselves "Safe" I don't think a cover option isn't that far away.
What DOES make the Super Mutants gain more ground towards their original intimidating forms was one of the previews of New Vegas - Nightkin, specifically. Their return is great and the "melee" form's execution during the video stunned me and actually terrified me. There's nothing like the image of someone blasting away a Super Mutant, the body clearly falling to the ground.... and then the "Real" mutant suddenly popping into your visuals right in front of you to break your teeth and part of your skull. If Obsidian continues this trend of making enemies intimidating due to special tactics and abilities that each has, we'll have a bit more diversity than Hulk-smash angry at everything mutants/raiders/random small children.
Edit: On another note, I think I found what we have to blame for the Super Mutants appearing and acting like they do in Fallout 3: The Xbox "Brotherhood of Steel" game. I recently reread the manual of the copy I own and it describes FEV result in experiments turning aggressive, being insane, and having a degraded intelligence - this being FEV prior to scientists experimenting on it more. Also, the "Super Orc" asthetic apparently spawned in that game too. So shame, Bethesda, for basing their Super Mutants on a game that so many people had already hated D: I find the thing fun still though. Lack of Cattleprod made me sad though.
I think I mentioned that as well in some of my earlier posts, that Bethesda seems to have taken more inspiration from Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel than the first two Fallouts.
Super Mutants resembling body builders with small heads or having barely a neck at all.
Most of them in general making stupid jokes and comments and acting like idiot comic relief.
Then there are of course the pee pee jokes that came back in Fallout 3.
And of course the self made weapons, in this case it was self made machine guns, missile launchers, laser rifles and so on, but it set the trend for the stupid self made weapons in Fallout 3.
I can understand zip guns, pipe rifles and shivs, but I dislike the home made weapons in FOBOS and FO3.
Edit:
One of the few things I liked about FOBOS that it at least showed a story in which some Super Mutants did one more attempt at saving their species, rather than just giving up.
I actually also like the secret Vault.
The idea that Vault Tec had FEV doesn't fit but except for the manual it was never mentioned in the game, all Attis was talking about was a cure for mutation induced sterility, I don't recall him ever mentioning FEV.
All the FEV nonsense came from the manual.
The idea that Vault Tec had its own facility for CEOs and staff doesn't really conflict that much with FO lore.
Super Mutants resembling body builders with small heads or having barely a neck at all.
Most of them in general making stupid jokes and comments and acting like idiot comic relief.
Then there are of course the pee pee jokes that came back in Fallout 3.
And of course the self made weapons, in this case it was self made machine guns, missile launchers, laser rifles and so on, but it set the trend for the stupid self made weapons in Fallout 3.
I can understand zip guns, pipe rifles and shivs, but I dislike the home made weapons in FOBOS and FO3.
Edit:
One of the few things I liked about FOBOS that it at least showed a story in which some Super Mutants did one more attempt at saving their species, rather than just giving up.
I actually also like the secret Vault.
The idea that Vault Tec had FEV doesn't fit but except for the manual it was never mentioned in the game, all Attis was talking about was a cure for mutation induced sterility, I don't recall him ever mentioning FEV.
All the FEV nonsense came from the manual.
The idea that Vault Tec had its own facility for CEOs and staff doesn't really conflict that much with FO lore.
Well I think it is important to note that the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 were attempting the same thing, but in a dumber manner to say the least. Assume they were born from a mutagen used in the experiment of Vault 87, whether it be FEV or something new (the progam's name, EEP, can remain either way as well as the Vault's experimental purpose.) That being said, by Fallout 3 their supply of said mutagen is too low to continue making more mutants and Centaurs, thus their at a species limit. Thus their random locations throughout the Capitol Wastelands is actually them attempting to look for more supplies. And considering their general intelligence - which i think it is dumb that Bethesda made them have the intelligence of a Cartoon Network cartoon show - they're not going to pull anything Attis tried to and figure out a way to make themselves reproduce biologically and not through forced mutations of others.
As for the comment made in Broken Steel of them multiplying like crazy, there may be an answer for that. Within the 2 weeks of Lone Wanderer being out cold the Super Mutants have discovered and entered the Blackrock base - where apparently Eden HAD brought FEV at least from the West Coast (Which I also thought was dumb - I expected the Capitol Wasteland Enclave to be independent from the West Coast due to a lack of communication between headquarters/failsafe nuke-protected locations) or even had a good store of the mutagen used in Vault 87 - Assuming it ISN'T FEV and a new product. Either way, the result is the same: Super Mutants have discovered yet another source to continue making more of themselves.
Now I don't expect the cartoon network humor to go away in New Vegas, but I'm already seeing many attempts to bring a different feeling in the encounters you have with Super Mutants in that game. We'll see if they become less orc-like though (Which I honestly never saw them as Green Orcs to begin with - more like Bane from Batman cartoon/movie/etc. where he isn't apparently smart in buff mode, but in a permanent state of hate.)
As for the comment made in Broken Steel of them multiplying like crazy, there may be an answer for that. Within the 2 weeks of Lone Wanderer being out cold the Super Mutants have discovered and entered the Blackrock base - where apparently Eden HAD brought FEV at least from the West Coast (Which I also thought was dumb - I expected the Capitol Wasteland Enclave to be independent from the West Coast due to a lack of communication between headquarters/failsafe nuke-protected locations) or even had a good store of the mutagen used in Vault 87 - Assuming it ISN'T FEV and a new product. Either way, the result is the same: Super Mutants have discovered yet another source to continue making more of themselves.
Now I don't expect the cartoon network humor to go away in New Vegas, but I'm already seeing many attempts to bring a different feeling in the encounters you have with Super Mutants in that game. We'll see if they become less orc-like though (Which I honestly never saw them as Green Orcs to begin with - more like Bane from Batman cartoon/movie/etc. where he isn't apparently smart in buff mode, but in a permanent state of hate.)