Swedish media at it again, senselessly condemning Israel

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by victor, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
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    Dec 12, 2003
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57I5J420090819


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/world/middleeast/24mideast.html

    (there are better, first-hand sources in Swedish, but I don't see the point in linking to those, as most of you can't read them).


    So, I haven't read the article itself (but I'm about to, once I find it in the archives), but I read the rebuttal/criticism in the largest Swedish "conservative" newspaper (Svenska Dagbladet), written by a fraud no less (he embezzled money from a help organization), but that's not really the point, as I agree with his points. Now, I won't be able to draw that many conclusions before I read the original article. But it seems pretty obvious what the intentions of the original article were. An ill-informed or ill-intentioned journalist claimed, without any legal or scientific evidence other than rumours spread by "victims"' families and of course, Islamists, that Israeli doctors were routinely and intentionally using (by Israeli soldiers) killed Palestinian men as organ banks. Sensational claims require sensational evidence, of which he had none. The organ theft was apparently an isolated incident performed by one medical team in the 1990's. It was a well-known scandal and not a national doctrine in any way. Not to mention the fact that most of the victims were Isrealis, only a small fraction of them were Palestinians.

    Of course, all the classic anti-semistic governments in the world jumped right up on the bandwagon. Iran and Algeria praised the guy, and he even received an Algerian national prize for journalism. Let me remind you that Algeria is widely regarded as the Islamic North Korea. Any such prizes are probably given entirely for political reasons.

    The article I read mentions a recent Ukrainian election campaign quoting the article frivolously in it's anti-semitic glory. A Ukrainian professor apparently went so far as to claim that 25,000 Ukrainian children had been kidnapped by Israel and used as organ banks. :roll:

    Now I'll comment more on this once I've read the original article, but damn. This is just another milestone in a long tradition by Swedish leftist media of accusing Israel of this and that. Now, I'm not defending what Israel does. And this is fucking important; I regularly get the "you fucking Israel lover" rebuttal when trying to counter the claim that they rape mothers and eat their children. Rumours do not equal fact, or even a fucking ounce of fact, that is all. What's most appalling is that the media over here only calls it "Israel" because they have to, what they really mean is "the Jews". There are about 10,000 Jews in Sweden. One of them is my oldest and best friends, and as far as I know, he doesn't go around raping Arab children. Israel is a country and Israelis are a people, but the Jews are not. The original article used the fact that an American Jew in New Jersey sold black market organs as a fact that Israel steals organs from Arab kids. Does anyone else see how fucked up that conclusion is?

    I'm not as angry at the people publishing article as I am at Sweden and the Swedish people for letting it happen. Let me remind you that this newspaper (that was hilariously and justly called a "tabloid" by Reuters) is the biggest newspaper in Sweden. Seriously. Britney Spear's exposed vag made headlines for a fucking month in this newspaper. Other, more serious papers, have to keep up with equally ridiculous headlines to survive. They have so much political power it's ridiculous. They can publish whatever the fuck they want. It saddens me, also, that in one of the most educated countries in the world, the majority of the population base all their opinions and facts on what's scribbled down in that shitrag.

    And you could argue "well, it's just one article, keep your pants on". But let me remind you of the fact that this isn't the first time Sweden starts this debacle. Anyone remember the 1930's?

    So aside from basically fueling racial biology and National socialism back then, Swedish media is at it again, stirring hate against Jews. Good job, Sweden. You're like that guy at a football riot who throws the first chair and who then makes a quick exit, claiming innocence while the crowd tears itself apart.
     
  2. coliphorbs

    coliphorbs Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    330
    Jun 2, 2008
    What's always been beyond me is why Israel doesn't even try to put up a fight in the media war. When Palestinians, Islamists and other groups make a huge fuss of every other thing, there's nobody from that other side of the fence even trying to rebuke the claims - despite them being so often false, exaggerated, or misleading.
     
  3. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Huh. You already failed the debate by bringing in the nazis and you weren't even debating anyone but yourself yet, victor. That's impressive. Your "remember the 1930s" is as weak as anything an ill-skilled journo can bring in, so hello kettle.

    Also not sure why that spiel was necessary if you haven't read the article.

    Hah!

    Wait...you're actually serious? You seriously believe Israel does not compete in the media war? Are you...are you for real? Let's not even mention how both articles linked by Victor are rebuttals by Israel, which makes your reply even more puzzling, but that doesn't take away that believing Israel does not "even try to put up a fight" is...wow.
     
  4. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
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    Dec 12, 2003
    I've read the article now. It's nonsense. It reminds me of an action movie script more than anything. Exactly what I expected. There's no evidence or sources showing that any of the events even happened, other than the word of a pretty anti-Israel reporter.

    Yet it's being fanatically defended by the leftist media. This is yet another case of

    Israeli criminal = Israeli state = Jews all over the world = Zionist conspiracy. This is a very common argument here, believe it or not. Which is why I brought up the nazis, even if it seems a little silly and extreme.

    And yeah, Israel's rebuttals are often pretty... Drastic. But let's not forget how drastic the accusations were.


    I wish there were translations of these articles, but unfortunately I can only link to second-hand accounts of people who have read them.

    And again, I'm not surprised by the article. That newspaper is well-known for its crap. I'm disappointed in people reading it as truth just because it's written, and that was kind of the point of the original post.
     
  5. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005

    because, the initial statements drown out anything. including a fact based rebuttal.

    in 5 years, people wont remember the rebuttal or anything that proves the initial statements false, all the vast majority will remember is the initial article.

    dont you know anything about journalisim?
     
  6. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    wow, dude... what a crock of shit.

    I'm not even picking sides because I frankly don't care enough to do that. but as a fellow swede, I can call you on your total bullshit. we don't have more nationalists or jew haters than any other country, and there is no stirring of hatred against jews in our media. you're reading way too much into things there, pal.
     
  7. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    I call bull. I have yet to see this rhetoric be used by anyone else but Israeli defenders that claim that you are a nazi as soon as you backtalk Israel.
     
  8. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
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    Dec 12, 2003
    Oh come on, read Aftonbladet some time. Every single article about Israel is against it. What a crap newspaper. Sure, Israel does some shit stuff, but that doesn't mean you can make stuff up about what happens there.
     
  9. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    I wouldn't say one shitty tabloid having a boner for Israel-hate makes Sweden anti-semitic. I'm not picking sides here, I don't know if Sweden is, but tabloids posting crap is not proof that Sweden is more or less Israel-bashing or anti-semitic (which are separate things, note) than any other country.
     
  10. coliphorbs

    coliphorbs Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    330
    Jun 2, 2008
    I mean to say that Israel is on an almost exclusively reactive/defensive stance as far as this front goes.
     
  11. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
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    Dec 12, 2003

    I'm not saying that, either. I'm saying the Swedish media is. Because, as it is now, that tabloid is the biggest newspaper in Sweden, and many Swedes base their opinions on what's written in there. I'm not saying the entire Swedish media is represented here, but a pretty large portion of it is.

    And no, Israel-bashing isn't the same as anti-semitism. Didn't really say that either. But bashing Israel for the sake of bashing Israel, and making the connection between non-Israeli jews and Israel, can very well be.


    Since there's a couple of Swedes reading the thread, I'll link to the articles in question. The original article that started it all:

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article5652583.ab (Why this was published in the culture section is beyond my understanding. Maybe they were the only ones retarded enough to publish it)

    A critical anlysis by SvD (one of many): http://www.svd.se/kulturnoje/nyheter/aningslosheten-ar-farlig_4103235.svd

    (some of it is true, but some of it is a little exaggerated)
     
  12. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    SvD also had articles about the Palestinian suicide bombing of Israeli hospitals and schools. So I say they just show both sides.
     
  13. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
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    Dec 12, 2003
    Yes, which is why it's the only newspaper worth reading.
     
  14. Zeal

    Zeal Still Mildly Glowing

    221
    Apr 20, 2003
    Who have those kind of tabloids and news everywhere in the world. Plus you also have the opposite, its just a question of searching (altho you dont have to search much for anti-israel propaganda).

    So i wouldnt say Swedens are particullary anti-semitic.

    remember the dutch (i think it was dutch)fake"picking-oranges" report?
     
  15. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
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    Dec 12, 2003

    Again, that's not what I said, either.
     
  16. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    Victor is just scared because he would never pass in Uppsala Rasbiologiska due to his questionable heritage.
     
  17. Zaij

    Zaij Vault Senior Citizen
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    Feb 10, 2004
    Hrm, from what I understand Swedish Media has a lot of pull, while also laughing it's arse off at libel

    And as for the whole nationalism angle aenemic brought up, your country has only really been open to mass immigration for the last 30 years, it wasn't founded and built on immigrants such as Canada, USA, Australia, NZ etc. I saw a fair bit of dodginess while in Sweden. Knew one black dude, adopted by Swedes and lived there basically his entire life but didn't at all feel swedish because regular whitey swedes had effectively labelled him 'other'. Sweden also has one of the worst utilizations of immigrants in the West, not to mention the whole Rosengård business and pay disparities between swedes and their better qualified immigrant coworkers. My Australian mate, speaks fluent Danish and Swedish, has a great work history in Australia has trouble finding work fitting his qualifications because natural born swedes get preference. So yeah, I can totally see the nationalism angle, though it's not so much hardcore Right-wing nationalism so much as 95% of the time picking swede over non-swede, regardless of merit and a general undercurrent of xenophobia.

    But as I said, Sweden is pretty new to the whole immigrant business as I understand it so there's obviously kinks to be worked out. There's the positive sides as well. I saw so many asian/black kids adopted by white Swedes I almost thought it was some sort of fashion statement. The fact that you guys seem to have such an open immigration policy on it's own is commendable in a lefty-liberal kind of way, if not entirely pragmatic. Your media could be better, but then I think that about every country so that's no surprise.

    I mean fuck, at least your not as crazy as Denmark.

    Disclosure: I've only been to Sweden for four days, though am going to study there in a few months for one year and have done extensive reading to understand the place. My closest friends at the moment are two swedes with a common topic of dicussion being Sweden and swedish politics, and one of my close friends lives in Sweden and he gives me a constant social commentary. For all I know this is all wrong, so forgive me and ignore it if it is.
     
  18. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    There are xenophobic currents (rather than racist, although that exists to a degree) in Sweden as in every country, but this thing is not a good example of it. There are better angles for attacking the leftist media slant.
     
  19. Judici

    Judici First time out of the vault

    20
    Jul 23, 2007
    I agree on that Aftonbladet is an awful newspaper, but why do you have to blame the whole Swedish media? The newspaper isn’t the only media; we have SVT, for example, which is a great source of objective news.

    I think it’s dreadfully wrong to compare the criticism toward Israel with racism, nazism and nationalism. The people I know that are critical towards Israel created their disapproval as a result of how unfair they thought the growing islamophobia was.

    I do agree that there is a growing nationalism, racism and nazism in Sweden however, but that comes from political parties such as the Sweden Democrats and I am personally very worried abut this rising movement. You just need to change out their use of the word “Muslim” and “Islam” to “Jew” and “Judaism” and you get an almost copy of the rhetoric used in the Third Reich.

    Now, I’m not personally very found of Islamic fanatics, or any other religious fanatics, but to base politics upon hate is never a good thing.
     
  20. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    this is true, and is indeed frightening. it doesn't really place Sweden ahead of most other countries on the "most-nationalistic" list (just look at Denmark, Italy and Germany for example) though.

    as for what Zaij said, you're completely right in that we haven't been open for mass immigration for that long and that we're handling the immigration badly. but you shouldn't try to use that as an argument that we're a very nationalistic country. the reason why a political party such as the Sweden Democrats are on the rise is just because of the mass immigration we've had lately. I'm all for immigration, but it's really sad to see how this has been handled and it's very easy to see the problems. and don't get me wrong, I fucking hate nationalism/nazism/racism and everything along those lines, but I can understand why a lot of people are upset and feel that changes need to be made. hell, I think changes need to be made.

    I grew up in a very small city (Swedens youngest city, in fact) and in my school we had one black kid, who was in my class. she was totally accepted and everyone was friends with her. in 5th grade my class got her a bike for her birthday because she had never owned a bike. she was so happy she cried. then my family moved to a bigger city and I was placed in a school where pretty much all immigrant families placed their children, and suddenly I was one of only 3-4 swedes in my class. the rest were immigrants or kids with foreign parents. guess who the "racists" were? the atmosphere was very hostile, very "ghetto" and fighting and crime was not uncommon. if you ever had a bike to school, you could bet your ass it would get stolen. in 8th or 9th grade I was called "fucking jew dog" by a guy from Turkey (I'm not jewish, so this was simply a random display of disgust and/or an attempt to look badass). I told him that Joseph (his name) is a jewish name and he should shut his mouth. after class, he pushes me into a locker and yells "don't ever call me a fucking jew!". antisemitic much?

    I'm smart enough not to blame the immigrant kids for this, I know the problem lies beyond. but it does not surprise me that this situation upsets a lot of people. and like I said, changes need to be made.