T-51B and the Anti Materiel Rifle

Mohamed2001

Mohamed2001

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Am I the only one who found it strange that the T-51B was very vulnerable to the AMR? It's "only" .50 BMG. I mean, it's the same round used in the M2 HMG, surely the US wouldn't want their PAs to be very vulnerable against their HMGs?

If it was something like a 20mm or a 30mm rifle, I could understand, but a 12.7mm/.50 cal? Hell, a 14.5mm rifle [PTRS 41, still, it wouldn't fit much in 2070 - 2077] would be more believable since that could punch through 40mm - 45mm of armor. (RHA, not composite of course)

Thoughts?
 
Mohamed2001 said:
Languorous_Maiar said:
Am I the only one who found it strange that the T-51B was very vulnerable to the AMR?
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Source?
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New Vegas. One AMR is more than enough to wipe out the BoS Paladin squad that patrols the exterior of the bunker.
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So you're using game logic to argue about canon logic. I mean, because gameplay is simplified you can kill BoS Paladin using machete or any other lame weapon too, so AMR shouldn't be special case there.
 
Anti-materiel rifles are designed to destroy hard targets such as bunkers, vehicles, and even tanks. If the real world had Power Armor, I'm sure it would fall into the category of targets vulnerable to AMRs. AMRs very often use the .50BMG caliber in the real world, so I don't see an inconsistency.

Also, maybe in the Fallout universe, there were never any HMGs using that caliber, so that wouldn't be a concern.
 
Aren't anti materiel rifles Anti Tank weapons? why would it be weird for one of those to punch through Power armor?
 
AFAIK, anti-materiel can't exactly penetrate tank frontal armor, but is used to disable "softer" parts of heavy weapons/vehicles i.e. tank gun, vehicle engines and so on. The focus is more on crippling the target by placing a well-aimed shot at a sensitive part, rather than completely destroying it. It's a sniper gun, after all.
 
If I remember correctly and it's been a while, but in Fallout 2 there was a .50 BMG rifle and it was effective against everything except Power Armor.

Actually I do think that Fallout: NV made Power Armor more of a clothing option than an actual viable protective system.
 
To be fair, both F3 and FNV reduced the actual value of PA in terms of both realism and gameplay. Given that it was envisioned as an armor that would turn a sole infantryman into a walking tank (and has, in fact, resulted in US Army hardly using any tanks during Anchorage campaign), it's presentation in Gamebryo doesn't do it justice at all.
On the other hand, if it had been made the way to reflect it's realistic capabilities, it would simply be too much. Especially in F3, where you can find PA behind every corner.
 
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Atomkilla said:
To be fair, both F3 and FNV reduced the actual value of PA in terms of both realism and gameplay. Given that it was envisioned as an armor that would turn a sole infantryman into a walking tank (and has, in fact, resulted in US Army hardly using any tanks during Anchorage campaign), it's presentation in Gamebryo doesn't do it justice at all.
On the other hand, if it had been made the way to reflect it's realistic capabilities, it would simply be too much. Especially in F3, where you can find PA behind every corner.
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Yeah it could be for balance.

Walpknut said:
Aren't anti materiel rifles Anti Tank weapons? why would it be weird for one of those to punch through Power armor?
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Yes, but .50 is a HMG caliber. It just makes no sense to have a semi-tank be very vulnerable to it. So what would happen in Anchorage if one of the Chinese manage to capture a M2 HMG? Suddenly sending M4s (or M46s/M48s, whatever the US uses as a Warhorse) to Anchorage is the much better option? I can imagine the T-45 to be vulnerable to those, since it was rushed. But the T-51B? Come on.. Also 12.7mm is more of "small" AT caliber.


RetroAmerica said:
If I remember correctly and it's been a while, but in Fallout 2 there was a .50 BMG rifle and it was effective against everything except Power Armor.

Actually I do think that Fallout: NV made Power Armor more of a clothing option than an actual viable protective system.
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I don't remember that rifle. But if what you say is true, then that makes sense.

Yeah, NV and 3 did that.
 
Atomkilla said:
To be fair, both F3 and FNV reduced the actual value of PA in terms of both realism and gameplay. Given that it was envisioned as an armor that would turn a sole infantryman into a walking tank (and has, in fact, resulted in US Army hardly using any tanks during Anchorage campaign), it's presentation in Gamebryo doesn't do it justice at all.
On the other hand, if it had been made the way to reflect it's realistic capabilities, it would simply be too much. Especially in F3, where you can find PA behind every corner.
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Speaking of Power Armor as it relates to fighting against armored vehicles, does anyone recall if the modified Sherman from Fallout:Tactics was able to stand up against Midwestern Brotherhood Power Armor?
 
According to in-game info, PA isn't all that powerful. Capability of absorbing over 2500 Joules of kinetic impact (which is about an impact of bullet from AK-47) isn't much. AMR are, as somebody mentioned before, gear designed to be used for fighting stuff like PA. "They can be used against lightly armored vehicles, stationary enemy aircraft, missile launchers, radar equipment, small watercraft, communications equipment, crew served weapons and similar targets".
 
RetroAmerica said:
If I remember correctly and it's been a while, but in Fallout 2 there was a .50 BMG rifle and it was effective against everything except Power Armor.

Actually I do think that Fallout: NV made Power Armor more of a clothing option than an actual viable protective system.
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Are you talking about the Bozar?
 
TheChosen1 said:
RetroAmerica said:
If I remember correctly and it's been a while, but in Fallout 2 there was a .50 BMG rifle and it was effective against everything except Power Armor.

Actually I do think that Fallout: NV made Power Armor more of a clothing option than an actual viable protective system.
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Are you talking about the Bozar?
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First thing that came to my mind is the Browning M2 from fallout tactics.
 
ocelot said:
Anti-materiel rifles are designed to destroy hard targets such as bunkers, vehicles, and even tanks. If the real world had Power Armor, I'm sure it would fall into the category of targets vulnerable to AMRs. AMRs very often use the .50BMG caliber in the real world, so I don't see an inconsistency.

Also, maybe in the Fallout universe, there were never any HMGs using that caliber, so that wouldn't be a concern.
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No, they're for fighting soft targets like jeeps, helicopters and unhardened equipment. .50BMG doesn't do much against tanks and bunkers. Tank rifles are another class of rifles, and they usually use a much larger caliber (and are still not really effective against proper tank armor). Also, Fallout's world supposedly diverged from ours sometime in the late 40's, the M2 Browning has been in use since the 20's. It's reasonable to assume that there are plenty .50BMG HMGs in the Fallout universe. Especially since power armor would allow a person to carry and fire a heavy MG while moving.
Here's a fun video what .50BMG does to Level IV body armor:

The T51b has probably some better material than that, but still, .50BMG is a powerful round and it's probably not nice to get hit by it.

Fun fact, Fallout 3's Gauss rifle model is based on an actual anti-tank rifle, the finnish Lahti L39.
l-39side.jpg
 
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Atomkilla said:
To be fair, both F3 and FNV reduced the actual value of PA in terms of both realism and gameplay. Given that it was envisioned as an armor that would turn a sole infantryman into a walking tank (and has, in fact, resulted in US Army hardly using any tanks during Anchorage campaign), it's presentation in Gamebryo doesn't do it justice at all.
On the other hand, if it had been made the way to reflect it's realistic capabilities, it would simply be too much. Especially in F3, where you can find PA behind every corner.
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Yeah, definitely. Power armor's representation in New Vegas doesn't do it justice to how it's depicted in lore or FO1/2. Still way better than 3 though. All armor was borderline worthless in 3, not just power armor.
 
Thinking about it in retrospect, Fallout 3 and NV really did bring Power Armor down pretty significantly.

By the time NV rolls around, Power Armor should be nigh legendary. The shining chrome (Remember, canonically PA can't rust) suit of armor that's closer to a tank than any sort of body armor that only the highest order of BoS Paladins wear, and even then they only put it on when under serious conditions. Someone wearing Power Armor should be a walking tank in the literal sense, somewhat slow, plodding and incredibly powerful.

I appreciate that in NV they tried to make it harder to get, and did make it something that took effort to achieve, but in the end it still doesn't match the wasteland mecha of the original games.
 
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