The Axis of Good vs. the Axis of Evil

[John Uskglass]

"We are here to resolve social problems, economic problems," Mr Morales said.

"This movement is not only in Bolivia; Fidel in Cuba and Hugo in Venezuela are logging triumphs in social movements and leftist policies."

Earlier, Mr Chavez said the two men were building an "axis of good".

"The axis of evil - do you know who the axis of evil is? Washington - that's the axis of evil. And their allies in the world, who threaten, who invade, who kill, who assassinate," he said.

"We are creating the axis of good, the new axis of the new century."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4576972.stm

Remember the days when we put 7.62mm rounds between these guys eyes? Yeah. Those where the days.

 

[Ashmo]

You still live?

Apparently we need to work on that.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

"We are creating the axis of good, the new axis of the new century."

Of what crap are they supposing to build... err... an axis?
Not speaking of that of good.

 

[Roshambo]

Wow...this is quite the irony. Those who were considered to be "evil" in the past are now viewing the US in the same scared view that the US citizens in places like Florida viewed them in the 60's.

I guess it just shows that it doesn't matter what government you have, it is only "free" and "fair" to the people as long as the rulership is competent.

Communism was such a great evil, and didn't work out. Democracy isn't looking too good at the moment, either.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

"Axis of good"? Heh, heh...

Cuba, Bolivia and Venezula are my favorite countries at the moment.

Viva la revoluzion!

 

[4too]

Results, Hidden in The Fine Script

Results, Hidden in The Fine Script



JU.:

Remember the days when we put 7.62mm rounds between these guys eyes? Yeah. Those where the days.

Could ''tell it to the Marines'', or our hapless CIA, but they are busy with our present regime change project, Iraq.


Outside of using metaphors of murder to vent an understandable irritation
of political 'cartoons' packaged for another sovereign jurisdiction, where in 'real' time and history did killing clowns like these -really- solve one issue with out historical repercussions to come.

Repercussions.

Consider.
Sadamm's Iraq WAS an United States proxy killer of those EVIL Islamic Iranian American Embassy hostage takers. Over 400 daze of stellar TV ratings!!!!
Followed by. Hundreds of thousands or was it millions, died in an eight year war, so we can swagger around and drop metaphors of murder. Kuwait invaded, No fly zone. Oil for food. WMD. Declared Victory! , ... no ah .... LIBERATION! .... Feel 'good' now? Probably not.

If this post modern history is as dead as Nitche's 'God' , after the popularization of ''monkeys' uncles'', why does the only thing that REALLY matters to the United States' South American foreign policies is an unstoppable flow of Cocaine? OH, ... and petroleum too. The dual fuels of our consumer demographic!

Another tedious entanglement? Because the rich and powerful, the last standing SUPER POWAH in the Solar System is diss'ed by some rival gangsta down the hemisphere?


If the never ending 'war on drugs' can give us a clue,

''Just say 'no'', to 7.62.

Living well is the best revenge.






4too

 

[Ozrat]

Remember the days when we put 7.62mm rounds between these guys eyes? Yeah. Those where the days.

No, actually, I don't. When were those days again?

Look's like Pat's Robertson's televangelist mindwashing scheme to assassinate Chavez found a channel to <s>manipulate</s> recieve his signals.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

Communism was such a great evil

Muahahahahah!! It's never late to embrace Commies again!

 

[John Uskglass]

Muahahahahah!! It's never late to embrace Commies again!

Your ideology is dead and your country is dying. Face it.

Look's like Pat's Robertson's televangelist mindwashing scheme to assassinate Chavez found a channel to manipulate recieve his signals.

Chavez is a dictator. Plenty of people want to kill him. I know a Venezualan Trotskyite who hates the motherfucker.

Cuba, Bolivia and Venezula are my favorite countries at the moment.

I'll be a Greek-American psedohermaphidite doing peepshows in San Francisco before I take the political opinion of any Croatian ratophile seriously.

Wow...this is quite the irony. Those who were considered to be "evil" in the past are now viewing the US in the same scared view that the US citizens in places like Florida viewed them in the 60's.

It's not ironic at all. Stupid socialists have always used America as an excuse for the inevitable failure that is their ideology.

Democracy isn't looking too good at the moment, either.

Meh. People have said that before. They where wrong then, they are wrong now.

 

[Wooz]

Axis of eevl!

 

[Brother None]

Heh.

You may think Richard Pipes is the world's foremost expert on communism and Russian history, Johnny-boy, but you'll have to excuse the rest of us if we fail to take you seriously because you're incapable of talking about communism, marxism and all its offshoots without foaming at the mouth.

Sorry.

 

[John Uskglass]

Forgive me if I do not break my back to become an apologist for an ideology that resulted in the deaths of a hundred million people in only a century.

And I'm the one with the anti-corporate sig, you have P.J. O'Rourke. Do you even know who he is?

'The larger the German body, the smaller the German bathing suit and the louder the German voice issuing German demands and German orders to everybody who doesn't speak German. For this, and several other reasons, Germany is known as 'the land where Israelis learned their manners'.

"The principle feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things— war and hunger and date rape— liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things.... It's a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don't have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be liberal."


"The Soviet constitution guarantees everyone a job. A pretty scary idea, I'd say."

"These were people who believed everything about the Soviet Union was perfect, but they were bringing their own toilet paper."

"Anyone who has studied psychology, sociology, anthropology, or any of the other wacko-and-wog disciplines knows the three great rules of the social sciences: Folks do lots of things. We don't know why. Test on Friday."

" Armenians and Azerbaijanis in Stepanakert, capital of the Nagorno-Karabakh autonomous region, rioted over much needed spelling reform in the Soviet Union."

" I guess the argument of contextuality is that anything is okay as long as it's done by people who are sufficiently unlike you."

" Moscow has changed. I was here in 1982, during the Brezhnev twilight, and things are better now. For instance, they've got litter. In 1982 there was nothing to litter with."

"To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze."

"I wonder how many of the people who profess to believe in the leveling ideas of collectivism and egalitarianism really just believe that they themselves are good for nothing. I mean, how many leftists are animated by a quite reasonable self-loathing? In their hearts they know that they are not going to become scholars or inventors or industrialists or even ordinary good kind people. So they need a way to achieve that smugness for which the left is so justifiably famous. They need a way to achieve self-esteem without merit. Well, there is politics. In an egalitarian world everything will be controlled by politics, and politics requires no merit."

I mean, shit, he's an older, possibly funnier version of myself.

You may think Richard Pipes is the world's foremost expert on communism and Russian history, Johnny-boy,

Tell that to me when Putin is out of office and replaced by someone both Liberal and talented at anything other then being a crook and the birth rate is above -89.00 per citizen.

 

[Brother None]

Forgive me if I do not break my back to become an apologist for an ideology that resulted in the deaths of a hundred million people in only a century.

*waves hand dismissively*

Such an argument could be made for a number of ideologies, including Christianity, Islam and, hell, capitalism. Survival of the fittest isn't cushy either. Colonialism under the dual flags of "spreading Christianity" and "becoming really rich since, hell, we're stronger than these natives anyway, tally-ho" would've burned a much richer scar on the face of the planet had they the means to, but they lacked such means. Hell, want to make an estimate how many people died of this grand enlightened ideology we call capitalism anyway?

You tend to get so many things confused and go bleary-eyed at the mention of any kind of social program, it's hard to even know where to begin. For you, Tolstoj's anarcho-pacifism equals Bakunin's violent revolutional preaching equals Leninism-Marxism equals Roosevelt's New Deal equals recent developments in South America.

Granted, I'm no fan of it either and think these developments, especially since South America has been thundering in the opposite direction, will be harmful. Especially since the general tendency seems to be for the only type of communism ever tried and tested: a dictatorial father-knows-best state with a healthy hint of opression and murder. No wonder it doesn't work, ey?

But instead of foaming at the mouth and making pointless gestures such as leering at communists, declaring their ideology dead, declaring their country dead (excuse me for assuming you have a flawed view on this. You consider Russia dead because you want it to be so. Most people don't), don't you think the more useful question is why Socialism is spreading so richly in America's own back yard, in which the US has spread a fairly efficient ideology of capitalism? Hmmm? Thoughts?

Stupid socialists have always used America as an excuse for the inevitable failure that is their ideology.

Excuse me? You forgot the Cold War? You declared war on the ideology. According to you, you won, especially thanks to Reagen's efforts in some peoples' minds. But yet it is unfair if they claim they lost (in part or not) because you did indeed declare that war on them?

The blade cuts both ways. Use some logic.

And I'm the one with the anti-corporate sig, you have P.J. O'Rourke. Do you even know who he is?

Yes, he's funny.

Did it occur to you I have the sig because I agree with what it says, not because I love the quote's author? Again with the single-mindedness.

 

[John Uskglass]

*waves hand dismissively*

Hell, want to make an estimate how many people died of this grand enlightened ideology we call capitalism anyway?

Capitalism is defined only by it's relation with Socialism and Communism. Are we talking about the 'State Capitalism' of you silly Euros, of our Neoliberal-tilted Mixed Market, or some kind of Anarcho-capitalist wet dream?

Attributing crimes to 'capitalism' is just bullshit. All socialist socities save maybe the Khmer Rouge are effectivley 'State Capitalists' at heart. But maybe that's the old dead 12 year old Trotskyite in me.

You tend to get so many things confused and go bleary-eyed at the mention of any kind of social program, it's hard to even know where to begin.

I used to, I admit. I still tend to think in boxes, but there are a lot more boxes now.

Tolstoj's anarcho-pacifism equals Bakunin's violent revolutional

Only way they are alike is that they are both unworkable and both dead.

Roosevelt's New Deal

Social Democracy is the road to Totalitarianism, but I don't think that was as obvious in those days. I don't have that much against the New Deal: Roosevelt had a lot of guts to try it, and it needed to be tried. It still failed though.

Especially since the general tendency seems to be for the only type of communism ever tried and tested: a dictatorial father-knows-best state with a healthy hint of opression and murder. No wonder it doesn't work, ey?

While Mitterand's France was all Pâté and cheap Algerian underage male prostitutes, eh?

Although that was not Communism, it was about as close to real 'Socialism' without the Autocracy (or at least all of it, France's democracy has rarley flirted with anything other then tyrrany) as you get

don't you think the more useful question is why Socialism is spreading so richly in America's own back yard, in which the US has spread a fairly efficient ideology of capitalism? Hmmm? Thoughts?

When did I ever doubt that Socialism looks good on paper, or that Socialists can take power in Third World countries like candy from a quadriplegic baby in a coma, and use insane anti-semetic and anti-American rhetoric to stay in power?

 

[Brother None]

I said dismissively, not flamboyantly

Attributing crimes to 'capitalism' is just bullshit.

Ok, so why does the same not go for 'communism'?

I used to, I admit. I still tend to think in boxes, but there are a lot more boxes now.

Yeah, great.

Only way they are alike is that they are both unworkable and both dead.

I was mocking you, pay attention.

Social Democracy is the road to Totalitarianism

I see no historic evidence of these. Unless Bush, the most totalitarian president the US has seen in some time, is the result of the ND and Social Democracy.

Hell, I haven't seen any Social Democratic totalitarian states.

No, the national socialists don't count, they weren't social democrats or democratic socialists.

I don't have that much against the New Deal: Roosevelt had a lot of guts to try it, and it needed to be tried. It still failed though.

Odd, I seem to remember the USA recovering well.

Haven't we been over this?

While Mitterand's France was all Pâté and cheap Algerian underage male prostitutes, eh?

No, neither was it France dragging its guts in squalor. You have a point?

Although that was not Communism, it was about as close to real 'Socialism' without the Autocracy (or at least all of it, France's democracy has rarley flirted with anything other then tyrrany) as you get

And yet France did not collapse in a fierce orgie of cataclysms. Economy was down, though, that's a fact, as was every Western economy at the time.

When did I ever doubt that Socialism looks good on paper, or that Socialists can take power in Third World countries like candy from a quadriplegic baby in a coma, and use insane anti-semetic and anti-American rhetoric to stay in power?

You miss my point. Why are the States off invading Iraq rather than tending to their own back yard? And how come socialism can spread so easily in the US' success story, often compared to the Europe-Africa relationship which is less of a success story.

Huh? Huh? Huh?

 

[John Uskglass]

Kharn, where did you get the impression that I was a Russophobe? I've seen as many Russian movies as anyone my age can possibly expect to have seen, and have read far more Russian novels then most people will in their entire lives, and I can speak and understand a limited amount of Russian. I'm actually quite a Russophile, I just think the last chance for a sane Russia died with the Kadets.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

I've seen as many Russian movies as anyone my age can possibly expect to have seen, and have read far more Russian novels then most people will in their entire lives, and I can speak and understand a limited amount of Russian. I'm actually quite a Russophile, I just think the last chance for a sane Russia died with the Kadets.

It is very pleasant for me to know that someone in America is reading Russian books and seeing Russian films. Yet it is bitter to see that you haven't understood much to say what you're saying about Russia. And Communism.

Your ideology is dead and your country is dying. Face it.

Yes, my country is dying. Not because of Commies, but because of Yeltsin and Putin. They betrayed the CCCP, its people and its ideals. Treacherous swines destroyed the Soviet union, but in no way does it mean that the ideology died. Today about a third of people in Russia support Communists. And the number is growing from year to year. That's because the Communist party is the only real force opposing the present regime.

Forgive me if I do not break my back to become an apologist for an ideology that resulted in the deaths of a hundred million people in only a century.

It is quite a serious accusation. Let me ask you, however, where on earth have you found that number? Maybe you counted victims of Communism by yourself? I'm for constructive criticism only.

I just think the last chance for a sane Russia died with the Kadets.

I'm sorry, but this is complete bullshit. Kadets had never been a strong political power, nor were they widely supported by people. They were just another group of rich bastards trying to draw attention to themselves and make profit. The greatest and the most influential party of those times was PSR (Socialist Revolutionaries), the party that was taken into account. And SRs could take the initiative, but decided to stay away.

And what is your criterium of Russian sanity, btw?

 

[Montez]

]Yes, my country is dying. Not because of Commies, but because of Yeltsin and Putin. They betrayed the CCCP, its people and its ideals. Treacherous swines destroyed the Soviet union, but in no way does it mean that the ideology died. Today about a third of people in Russia support Communists. And the number is growing from year to year. That's because the Communist party is the only real force opposing the present regime.

I don't know much about it, but I was under the impression that life in russia was awful during communism - poverty, fear, near-universal corruption in the ruling party, waiting in long lines just to get a loaf of bread, etc. Do people want that back, or was it not as bad as I've been lead to believe?

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

Forgive me if I do not break my back to become an apologist for an ideology that resulted in the deaths of a hundred million people in only a century.

But you forget that no matter what the excuse is, there will be at least 6 000 000 000 people dead in this coming century, and the people need excuses for to die, to kill and to live.

 

[Roshambo]

Attributing crimes to 'capitalism' is just bullshit.

Ok, so why does the same not go for 'communism'?

Sort of like O'Reiley's "'Merry Christmas' should not be offensive in any way to non-Christians, and any non-Christian is insane if they are offended by it [...] 'Happy Holidays' absolutely offends Christians" crap?