The Axis of Good vs. the Axis of Evil

[Unkillable Cat]

“If the February Revolution had given land to the peasant, the October Revolution could not have happened.”
Leo Trotsky.

Leo Tolstoy died in 1910, fuckmook.

Uhm...

 

[4too]

True Intent

True Intent




Montez:

What a country! In America, threads about South America get derailed into debates about the merits of communisim! In Soviet Russia, threads about the merits of communism get you derailed into a gulag!

There may have been little intended focus for this thread from its very inception.

Horseshoes, handgrenades, and sh'tfights, why stay focused? Why be accurate?

I read meaningful AMERICAN histories of WW2 in the 1970's. I do not see any evidence, here, that these survived the Cold War. The jingoism sure has.

The historical perspective I see here is more invective then insight.

This thread is all about projecting fears. So it is natural, and RIGHT that the thread has left the current events of South America and United States, the mutually assured bear baiting of posturing politicians.

Wait. I think the bear baiting theme still holds true. Only the time and space, the 'color' of the bear has been changed, the rhetoric remains the same. Clothing a 'new' bogey in the old rags of past conflicts. The intent of our posturing is 'pure' on that point.

The posturing.

It screams of distortions that will groom foreign policy to repeat the classic mistakes. We shall ALL, always, be lead by those worthies that see only what they wish to see. They shall pluck WMD's out of thin air , and see a Narc-o-Communist behind every coca bush.


There is real conflict here, but it never seems to be expressed in imagery, and history relevant to the true situation.
We see the same slings, and arrows of outrageous ('latin') bogey men, the same saber rattling and threatened intervention of the Northern Colossus that has stained history since ""The Monroe Doctrine"" claimed an American 'sphere of interest', ', in the expansionist tradition of our European forefathers. The sons of Visa-Goths, Vandals, and things that go bump in the night ...


No "'reasonable"' American politician will stop the flow of resources from the Southern Hemisphere. Even at risk of competing with the mainland Chinese. The United States needs oil for energy and plastics, cheap labor to squeeze out that illusion of an accelerated rate of profit that helps inflate stock values,

AND

sugar,

to sprinkle on our dreamz ...

fine white lines for the rich, and rock fo' da po'.


What this thread may need is a mandatory pee test, so we can sniff out the prevailing psychoactive chemistry. Then. All inhale, swallow, OR READ the same mind altering flotsam and restart on the same page.

Or go on to the next sh'tfight.







4too

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

Where are you, Commissar? I won't survive here without your help!

I am partly err... completely surrounded by raging capitalists.

I've run out of ammo, my bayonet is broken and i need reinforcements!

I repeat, reinfo....

*static*

 

[John Uskglass]

Lauren is not as simple or moronic as you. I won't speak for her, but I seriously doubt she supports Zombie Stalin.

 

[The Commissar]

]Where are you, Commissar? I won't survive here without your help!

I am partly err... completely surrounded by raging capitalists.

I've run out of ammo, my bayonet is broken and i need reinforcements!

I repeat, reinfo....

*static*

Retreat is not authorized. Not one step back.

Be brave comrade.


To the rest.

Official Letter of Condemnation

You traitorous*

[ ]Menshevik
[ ]Trotskyite
[X]Tsarist
[ ]Coward
[X]Bourgeois Repressor
[ ]Fear Monger
[ ]Wrecker
[ ]Saboteur
[ ]Defeatist
[X]Lumpen Proletariat
[X]Counter-Revolutionary
[ ]All of the Above

Confess now and die well, or face*

[ ]The Ice Pick of Doom to Traitors of the Ideals of the Revolution (IPoDtTotIotR)
[ ]Death by hanging
[X]Execution by firing squad
[ ]Vacation to a GULag
[X]Deportation of you and all your loved ones
[X]Revocation of your worker's pass
[X]Voluntary Service in Penal Battalions
[ ]A weekend alone with Jebus, the loneliest Belgishian.
[ ]All of the Above



*Check all that apply

 

[Brother None]

You, welsh, Sander and Ozrat did not feel that way about me in the old days.

Yeah, well, you were more extremist than Rusy.

Heh, I kid.

And much as it may hate me, I also admit that there is a difference between dirigism (I don't even have any idea how to pronounce that) and Soviet command economies.

No, but they're both controlled economies.

Meh. Fair enough. I kind of agree with Levin's views on the importance of Russian agriculture in his context, though.

Heh.

People always forget Levin was the sole survivor of Anna Karenina. The only TRUE survivor. All the rest were punished for their sins, their insolence, whereas Levin was pure, a hero.

Tch.

50 million? I seriously doubt that. Not even the Reactionary Monarchists would do that, let alone my beloved Octobrists and Kadets.

As do I, but those 50 million didn't die for progress, those 50 million died for insanity.

Unless you are arguing that, the fact that the US benefitted economically from WWII seems like a non sequitur.

And it is indeed a ns.

They have a tenancy to save lives and win individual battles, though.

Yes? No? Yes? The Boers didn't have generals, they could still win against half a million Brits.

Generals are important and Stalin hit the war effort vitally by killing so many, the fool, but tanks are at least as important as generals.

I don't think so. The biggest political push in the last decade of the 20th and into the 21st Century is the merging of basically all stupid ideologies into one massive, moronic whole. I'd personally say this started all the way back with the Fascist combination of Socialist hatred of individualism with Liberal notion of the Nation and Conservative imagery and more traditional Authoritarianism.

Yes, but this is an empty argument. It doesn't actually *mean* anything. Extremes always meet on issues like being horrible or warlike or tyrannical, it is what makes them extremes. That doesn't mean there's an underlying inherent connection, as you imply.

The UK was flirting with Socialism back then. Don't get that wrong.

Flirting is a far shaight away from being Menshevik.

I don't mean to sound like Fascist, but I don't think our tanks should have stopped at Berlin. Stalinism was as great an evil as Nazism (and because it was allowed to do more it's effect was worse), and with the 1946 harvest and the A-Bomb coming up I seriously doubt the USSR would have been able to put up with an enemy who was not evil like the Nazis. It's really too bad that Roosevelt had such romantic delusions of the USSR.

Hind-sight is 20/20, John. Nobody was sure back then, not even Roosevelt. It's easy to attack countries at random hoping you'll hit the bad guy, but it results in a lot of terrible shit on the long run.

Though in this case, with hindsight, it might've been good to roll through Eastern Europe, let communism collapse, etc. etc.

But again. Hindsight.

4too: well said. On the surface of it all that seems to be the essential problem. But even though fearmongering and bogymen are this strong, it is very true that at times this is justified.