CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
You didn't actually read them, did you?
Prone Squanderer requested my opinion them.
Shame, Jo'Geran.
Shame.
The CT Phipps talks about things he liked in Fallout 4 thread
Carbon Dated and Proud
You didn't actually read them, did you?
Prone Squanderer requested my opinion them.
Shame, Jo'Geran.
Shame.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Have the child be a human and have it so they aren't actually trapped in the fridge, but in fact they're a distraction for an ambush by murderous thieves. I'd buy that over a ghoul kid being stuck in there for over 200 years.
It doesn't really make much sense though, given the Sole Survivor's past. He/she is searching for their own lost child, why would they do something horrible to another one?
Ignoring the whole "disturbingly likes kids" motive for a moment, did the Gunner just go for a stroll and think "If I see anyone with a kid I'll make an offer to buy them"? He just appears with no explanation.
Cabot House I have nothing to add that no one else has mentioned.
If memory serves me correctly he mentions fending off Raiders sometimes (I guess they get swimming lessons or just know what a submarine periscope looks like), it's a hell of a stretch but maybe he gets loot off them sometimes.
Very rarely probably, so I don't know how he gets food. I guess Bethesda didn't think about it, after all it's a "PRE-WAR SUB WITH A PRE-WAR GHOUL CAPTAIN! COOL!"
You mean canon right?
Anyway, thanks for telling us your thoughts on these two quests, I'm a little surprised you didn't like Kid in the Fridge.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
It's little more than an escort mission with no real story, a lot of plot holes, and no actual development for the Sole Survivor. I'd say it was my least favorite story in Fallout 4 but there's a lot of quests which don't have any pretense to a story.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
*JO'Geran
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
now you're just being petty.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I'm going to probably dissect individual quests from the larger quests as plenty of Fallout 4 works separately but flows together poorly overall. For example, I love most of the Institute quests but they never really get into the things your character is probably most concerned about.
You don't really "make him a robobrain", though, it's just cosmetic. There's not actually some story element about how Codsworth's memories are transferred to some ancient blank slate criminal brain or something. It's just changing his model on the robot workbench.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Well, if we were discussing things I *HATE* about Fallout 4, that'd be a different story. Basically, I have a different problem with the game than most of the people on these forums. This is due to the fact I'm pretty much an alien lifeform in my preferences to most fans here.
However, my issue with Fallout 4 isn't conceptual. I like most of the ideas, Blade Runner rip-offs ESPECIALLY, the game has but dislike the shallowness with which they're explored.Automatron, for example, really brings up some fucking interesting ideas with the idea the whole "chimpanzee brain" Robobrain thing is complete bullshit (admittedly, first introduced as a joke in OWB). That, in fact, the Nazi-esque Enclave was doing some Nazi-esque things with neuro-atypical people to provide the public with however many Robobrains they needed.
But this is all just a walking/reading simulator. SS can't express horror, talk about blowing up the factory, or any number of other things -- because the point of the DLC is to provide a Robo-Workshop than roleplaying.
Codsworth and Curie becoming more advanced robots would be an interesting story, IMHO.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Diamond City
Diamond City is probably the best part of the main game's world-building and a sign that Bethesda is capable of learning from previous failures. One of the main complaints about the previous game they did was that they were set-pieces which didn't make a whole lot of sense.
Why did Megaton get constructed around a nuclear bomb? Where were the crops? Why did it need water and what were people drawn by? You could make inferences like the fact Megaton was built by the Children of the Atom and that other people chose to settle there but those aren't spoken of in the game.
Diamond City, by contrast, has crops and a water source as well as a school, a church, a scientific research center, apartments, and even class divisions. It's well-designed and has plenty of missions to go along with the fact it was created as the "Center" of the Commonwealth.
In a game about exploring post-apocalypse societies versus a better plasma gun, Diamond City is definitely one of the actual societies created by Bethesda. It's perhaps a little "too" normal but you can easily understand why the Sole Survivor would want to settle down there if he's eager for any kind of "normal" life as shantytown or not, it's probably the nicest place aside from Vault 81.
I think part of what I liked about Diamond City was there was also a lot of care in developing really minor characters. The scientiffic research team is a lesbian couple, the schoolteacher's robot is in love with him, the Russian brothers who own the bar, and the fact a little kid runs the water purification system.
Diamond City isn't a BIG accomplishment, mind you, but it's the kind of place you could point to and say to Father, "You're wrong. People ARE rebuilding." I also like the fact everyone has forgotten the original name was clearly a pun. "I.e. Baseball Diamond." Instead, they think it's referring to the idea it's a jewel.
I also think Home Plate is my favorite of the "houses" you can acquire settlement wise after Red Rocket Station. I am a bigger fan of premade locations than I am of creating my own and it felt really nice. I also liked how I could tap into the Diamond City power grid than have to make my own noisy generators.
Diamond City is probably the best part of the main game's world-building and a sign that Bethesda is capable of learning from previous failures. One of the main complaints about the previous game they did was that they were set-pieces which didn't make a whole lot of sense.
Why did Megaton get constructed around a nuclear bomb? Where were the crops? Why did it need water and what were people drawn by? You could make inferences like the fact Megaton was built by the Children of the Atom and that other people chose to settle there but those aren't spoken of in the game.
Diamond City, by contrast, has crops and a water source as well as a school, a church, a scientific research center, apartments, and even class divisions. It's well-designed and has plenty of missions to go along with the fact it was created as the "Center" of the Commonwealth.
In a game about exploring post-apocalypse societies versus a better plasma gun, Diamond City is definitely one of the actual societies created by Bethesda. It's perhaps a little "too" normal but you can easily understand why the Sole Survivor would want to settle down there if he's eager for any kind of "normal" life as shantytown or not, it's probably the nicest place aside from Vault 81.
I think part of what I liked about Diamond City was there was also a lot of care in developing really minor characters. The scientiffic research team is a lesbian couple, the schoolteacher's robot is in love with him, the Russian brothers who own the bar, and the fact a little kid runs the water purification system.
Diamond City isn't a BIG accomplishment, mind you, but it's the kind of place you could point to and say to Father, "You're wrong. People ARE rebuilding." I also like the fact everyone has forgotten the original name was clearly a pun. "I.e. Baseball Diamond." Instead, they think it's referring to the idea it's a jewel.
I also think Home Plate is my favorite of the "houses" you can acquire settlement wise after Red Rocket Station. I am a bigger fan of premade locations than I am of creating my own and it felt really nice. I also liked how I could tap into the Diamond City power grid than have to make my own noisy generators.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
The Glowing Sea
I admit I have an affection for big Michael Bay-esque setpieces in terms of exploration. I loved Fallout: New Vegas for taking the relatively minor ones of Fallout 3 (The various monuments, Paradise Falls, Tenpenny Towers) then expanding them with the casinos as well as places like Caesar's Camp.
For me, one of the biggest flaws of Fallout 4 was the fact it didn't have much interesting to look at spread through the Commonwealth. There was Boston, Diamond City, and a lot of settlements that consisted of two or three people each. The Glowing Sea, by contrast, was a massive change and very close to the Glow as we'd see in 3D.
There's not obviously much in the Glowing Sea but the fact it's literally off the map was a clever bit of writing on the part of the Bethesda team. It makes the journey there an actual surprise and the fact it's inhabited by Death Claws as well as massive amounts of radiation gives it a terrifying ambiance which is unmatched in the rest of the game.
There's a bit of writing which is done well here, too, which gets overlooked. Boston was never actually nuked in this story. Instead, only one nuclear missile was fired and it deliberately overshot the mark (possibly aimed at a military target) by Captain Zao. The Super-Bomb caused much of Boston to collapse via shockwave and poisoned its water but it's the only weapon which hit. It also explains why people can see the Mushroom cloud but not die since that's the one which hit the Glowing Sea and that's outside the "13 mile range" which will kill you.
In addition to the Glowing Sea proper, I also give props to the Nuclear Silo as a setting as well since it's so cold, austere, and brutalist--making you feel genuine horror when you see the nuclear armory that you've unwittingly given to a madman in Arthur Maxson.
I admit I have an affection for big Michael Bay-esque setpieces in terms of exploration. I loved Fallout: New Vegas for taking the relatively minor ones of Fallout 3 (The various monuments, Paradise Falls, Tenpenny Towers) then expanding them with the casinos as well as places like Caesar's Camp.
For me, one of the biggest flaws of Fallout 4 was the fact it didn't have much interesting to look at spread through the Commonwealth. There was Boston, Diamond City, and a lot of settlements that consisted of two or three people each. The Glowing Sea, by contrast, was a massive change and very close to the Glow as we'd see in 3D.
There's not obviously much in the Glowing Sea but the fact it's literally off the map was a clever bit of writing on the part of the Bethesda team. It makes the journey there an actual surprise and the fact it's inhabited by Death Claws as well as massive amounts of radiation gives it a terrifying ambiance which is unmatched in the rest of the game.
There's a bit of writing which is done well here, too, which gets overlooked. Boston was never actually nuked in this story. Instead, only one nuclear missile was fired and it deliberately overshot the mark (possibly aimed at a military target) by Captain Zao. The Super-Bomb caused much of Boston to collapse via shockwave and poisoned its water but it's the only weapon which hit. It also explains why people can see the Mushroom cloud but not die since that's the one which hit the Glowing Sea and that's outside the "13 mile range" which will kill you.
In addition to the Glowing Sea proper, I also give props to the Nuclear Silo as a setting as well since it's so cold, austere, and brutalist--making you feel genuine horror when you see the nuclear armory that you've unwittingly given to a madman in Arthur Maxson.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
which is where you find dogmeat the third... making the location basically a joke on dog boners. just sayin'.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Technically, he's between it and Sanctuary Hills.
Albeit, since The Walking Dead Season 2, I've been less trusting of random dogs than I used to be.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Red Rocket Station
I never liked my room at the Lucky 38 Casino. There, I said it. It's nice and all, don't get me wrong but the place was crowded with my followers and not really my PC's style. I wish I'd had the option of moving into Mister House's place or maybe Dinky the Dinosaur. This is notable because I was stupidly in love with my house in Megaton.
It was a shithole but it was MY shithole, dammit, and I loved switching between the various decors. It's why I considered the Old World Blues apartment my Gordon Freeman Courier's "true" home even if it was weird being surrounded by so many A.I. Another sign that breaking canon isn't TERRIBLE if you do it fun.
Red Rocket Station is already pre-made for your character when you arrive despite having a work bench. It has a lot of work benches, doors which close (which I did not realize for awhile), and a cooking pit. But, most of all, it was the weirdness that looking at a mostly intact gas station as a MANSION made me feel "Fallout" in a way I never felt about the more luxurious locations.
Red Rocket Station is also just outside of Sanctuary Hills. I felt this was good symbolically as you have the Sole Survivor not quite comfortable with being among his people but close enough to come down their way should he need to be. Asset wise, it allows Red Rocket Station to be decorated far more extensively than it would if it was part of the other settlement.
I never actually DID, though. Oh, don't get me wrong, I put the Large Metal House Pre-Fab on the second floor, building an elevator to it, and also a flight of stairs. I later added a metal wall around the place with separate doors and a couple of bathrooms. However, It became a Gas Station, Mansion, Fortress with a 1950s-esque den complete with jukebox and functional pattern-watching television.
But it was still a converted gas station because I liked the ambiance of it. I generally hated the Settlement Crafting system but I never hated it for my house because my Sole Survivor's home was their (literal) castle. Given the fact no less than fourteen attacks by Super Mutants occur (I assume in revenge for my attempts to exterminate their race), it proved to be a castle which would not fall.
I even made the VaultTech guy live in a little shack by it so he could be the place's caretaker.
I never liked my room at the Lucky 38 Casino. There, I said it. It's nice and all, don't get me wrong but the place was crowded with my followers and not really my PC's style. I wish I'd had the option of moving into Mister House's place or maybe Dinky the Dinosaur. This is notable because I was stupidly in love with my house in Megaton.
It was a shithole but it was MY shithole, dammit, and I loved switching between the various decors. It's why I considered the Old World Blues apartment my Gordon Freeman Courier's "true" home even if it was weird being surrounded by so many A.I. Another sign that breaking canon isn't TERRIBLE if you do it fun.
Red Rocket Station is already pre-made for your character when you arrive despite having a work bench. It has a lot of work benches, doors which close (which I did not realize for awhile), and a cooking pit. But, most of all, it was the weirdness that looking at a mostly intact gas station as a MANSION made me feel "Fallout" in a way I never felt about the more luxurious locations.
Red Rocket Station is also just outside of Sanctuary Hills. I felt this was good symbolically as you have the Sole Survivor not quite comfortable with being among his people but close enough to come down their way should he need to be. Asset wise, it allows Red Rocket Station to be decorated far more extensively than it would if it was part of the other settlement.
I never actually DID, though. Oh, don't get me wrong, I put the Large Metal House Pre-Fab on the second floor, building an elevator to it, and also a flight of stairs. I later added a metal wall around the place with separate doors and a couple of bathrooms. However, It became a Gas Station, Mansion, Fortress with a 1950s-esque den complete with jukebox and functional pattern-watching television.
But it was still a converted gas station because I liked the ambiance of it. I generally hated the Settlement Crafting system but I never hated it for my house because my Sole Survivor's home was their (literal) castle. Given the fact no less than fourteen attacks by Super Mutants occur (I assume in revenge for my attempts to exterminate their race), it proved to be a castle which would not fall.
I even made the VaultTech guy live in a little shack by it so he could be the place's caretaker.
Last edited:
Confession time
I was never a huge fan of the super mutant designs in original Fallout. They always seemed a bit ape/ogre/troll-like to me, and, well, reminded me of orcs.
In comparison, the small-faced super mutants of FO4 appealed more to me
That said, my favorite super mutants are those of Tactics, which are, to my knowledge, also widely disliked for being so different from the originals.
I was never a huge fan of the super mutant designs in original Fallout. They always seemed a bit ape/ogre/troll-like to me, and, well, reminded me of orcs.
In comparison, the small-faced super mutants of FO4 appealed more to me
That said, my favorite super mutants are those of Tactics, which are, to my knowledge, also widely disliked for being so different from the originals.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
In a row?
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Nick Valentine
The Companions are one of the strongest elements of the game and Nick Valentine is certinly one who earned his spot here. Stephen Russell is one of the major assets of Fallout 4 and I think Bethesda realized it since he has a surprisingly large role in the game as compared to other companions.
Nick Valentine's pseudo-1940s hardboiled Detective attitude is anachronistic even for the world of Fallout but certainly is FUN in a way a large portion of the game is not. He also has a fully fleshed out backstory which includes attempting to earn the trust of Diamond City's people the hard way and being rewarded with it. They may hate Synths in general but they love Nick Valentine in particular.
Nick Valentine's dialogue is also a sign of just how well a good voice actor can improve things. The Sole Survivor is boring and lifeless unless you have the Sarcastic option hit constantly and even then, that leads to some weird ass remarks. Despite this, the conversations with Nick Valentine and the Sole Survivor feel almost natural, especially compared to the rest of the game. He actually plays off lines and they feel like real reactions.
I mean, even when you have something as ridiculous as a random dog off the street able to sniff out clues, the story works simply because it's Nick Valentine getting more screentime with you. Random bits like his search for the Mysterious Stranger and the Private Cases you can take as sidequests help break up the monotony of the game.
His quest, sadly, is RIDICULOUS but rescuing him and his case files work well anyway. Indeed, he's a character which could have had MORE screen time and only improved the game. Nick Valentine meeting Father, Nick Valentine meeting Arthur Maxson, Nick Valentine as General of the Minutemen, and so on. He's also the only character I GAVE a shit enough about to listen to his thoughts on the Institute winning (the "bad" ending I chose).
The Companions are one of the strongest elements of the game and Nick Valentine is certinly one who earned his spot here. Stephen Russell is one of the major assets of Fallout 4 and I think Bethesda realized it since he has a surprisingly large role in the game as compared to other companions.
Nick Valentine's pseudo-1940s hardboiled Detective attitude is anachronistic even for the world of Fallout but certainly is FUN in a way a large portion of the game is not. He also has a fully fleshed out backstory which includes attempting to earn the trust of Diamond City's people the hard way and being rewarded with it. They may hate Synths in general but they love Nick Valentine in particular.
Nick Valentine's dialogue is also a sign of just how well a good voice actor can improve things. The Sole Survivor is boring and lifeless unless you have the Sarcastic option hit constantly and even then, that leads to some weird ass remarks. Despite this, the conversations with Nick Valentine and the Sole Survivor feel almost natural, especially compared to the rest of the game. He actually plays off lines and they feel like real reactions.
I mean, even when you have something as ridiculous as a random dog off the street able to sniff out clues, the story works simply because it's Nick Valentine getting more screentime with you. Random bits like his search for the Mysterious Stranger and the Private Cases you can take as sidequests help break up the monotony of the game.
His quest, sadly, is RIDICULOUS but rescuing him and his case files work well anyway. Indeed, he's a character which could have had MORE screen time and only improved the game. Nick Valentine meeting Father, Nick Valentine meeting Arthur Maxson, Nick Valentine as General of the Minutemen, and so on. He's also the only character I GAVE a shit enough about to listen to his thoughts on the Institute winning (the "bad" ending I chose).
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Commonwealth Raiders and The Corvega Assembly Plant
This is going to be controversial as an opinion but I generally liked the Raiders of the Commonwealth and felt Bethesda did a great job in humanizing them. Yes, you have no way of interacting with them save through a bullet but I think it's many levels above what we got in Fallout 3.
One of my favorite elements of exploration was going around the Commonwealth and finding the various gangs mentioned in the terminals before wiping them from the face of the cosmos. The terminals would update, usually from the perspective of Raiders wondering what the hell had happened to their rival gangs as well as increasing alarm at the realization someone is going Punisher on them. There's a lot of interesting ambient dialogue, too, if you decide to go stealthy in the game too.
They could have improved on the game more by allowing quests for the Raiders like rescuing that one Raider's sister and turning groups of them neutral but baby steps. I also liked we got some genuine characterization for some of the Raider groups like the Forged and their crazy initiation ceremonies.
I laud the Corvega Assembly Plant level in terms of dungeon design as well. It's one of the few locations which really jumps out in terms of exploration because it's unlike the rest of the setting's farms and burned out buildings.
This is going to be controversial as an opinion but I generally liked the Raiders of the Commonwealth and felt Bethesda did a great job in humanizing them. Yes, you have no way of interacting with them save through a bullet but I think it's many levels above what we got in Fallout 3.
One of my favorite elements of exploration was going around the Commonwealth and finding the various gangs mentioned in the terminals before wiping them from the face of the cosmos. The terminals would update, usually from the perspective of Raiders wondering what the hell had happened to their rival gangs as well as increasing alarm at the realization someone is going Punisher on them. There's a lot of interesting ambient dialogue, too, if you decide to go stealthy in the game too.
They could have improved on the game more by allowing quests for the Raiders like rescuing that one Raider's sister and turning groups of them neutral but baby steps. I also liked we got some genuine characterization for some of the Raider groups like the Forged and their crazy initiation ceremonies.
I laud the Corvega Assembly Plant level in terms of dungeon design as well. It's one of the few locations which really jumps out in terms of exploration because it's unlike the rest of the setting's farms and burned out buildings.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
The Institute vs. the BoS
*reposted from another thread*
Okay, this is going to be a rather lengthy post:
Fallout 4 is not a bad game. Fallout 4 is a mediocre game that I still enjoyed a great deal. It has bad elements and a lot of unfinished half-assed qualities but the biggest problems, for me, are that it is underwhelming rather than it causes people to bleed out of their eyes from its offensiveness. I'm of the mind the game doesn't actually have a bad plot, necessarily, but that it didn't handle it well.
I think part of the issue is what people wanted from the game and whether or not you wanted a sequel to New Vegas or Fallout 3. Honestly, I think both sides were disappointed in that respect because I was ching for a sequel to Fallout 3 and eager to get into elements pre-established by my second favorite game in the series.
What did I want from Fallout 4?
For me, I was excited about F4 taking place in Massachusetts and the commercials which advertised the Brotherhood of Steel as possible enemies. I was a huge fan of the Replicant plot in F3 and wanted to see the supposedly paradisaical Institute surrounded by the pain and death of the Commonwealth. More so, I wanted a follow up to the legacy of Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyons, two beloved characters from the franchise who I had a strong pre-established affection for. One of the elements I liked a lot about Fallout 2 was the fact it followed up and showed the legacy of your character in the first game. I was definitely interested in seeing how the Brotherhood of Steel and Capital Wasteland had been affected by the Lone Wanderer and was hoping for a lot of Easter Eggs related to that.
What I got
Overall, I actually liked the Sole Survivor's plot because I was willing to follow Bethesda's pre-made route for the most part. I allowed myself to become invested in the fictional family of the Sole Survivor and was angry when the Spouse was killed, eager to murder Kellog (not the least because I actually wanted to travel the Wasteland with my Spouse since i spent an hour on her appearance), and roleplayed a character desperate to find Shaun. I even slaughtered hundreds of Raider bases across the countryside because my character assumed the Gunners were the faction which kidnapped Shaun.
The ending was where the game and I found ourselves diverging, though, because it was clear the game expected me to follow the "Destroy Institute" plan. The problem was there was absolutely no interesting story to be had there. In Skyrim, hate it as much as you want, siding with one faction or the other will screw over likable NPCs. There's no real moral ambiguity in going against the Institute save the heavy handed death of Patriot with the Railroad--which is still more than anyone else gets.
For me, ultimately, I didn't feel the story had enough drama and when that happens in a Bethesda game then you have to create your own. I chose to side with the Institute and turned against the Railroad as well as Brotherhood of Steel despite the fact both had been good to me and I'd been planning a slave revolt. My Sole Survivor couldn't justify destroying the Institute, one of the few cities left in the world as well as centers of technology, even though he was convinced his son was insane.
The resulting end to my story was bittersweet and I liked all the condemnation I got from my companions even though Piper and Nick Valentine reversed on it (mostly because I did Nick's quest afterward). It was a decently written story of Gray and Gray Morality which I enjoyed. It showed me the game wasn't unsalvable writing wise. Later, I would watch the other victories and was grossly disappointed as everyone treats the nuking of a civilization as a triumph for "good."
Still, the result of my playthrough of Fallout 4 was mostly positive because by focusing on the family element to the exclusion of others, I got a story I was able to enjoy. That tells me there was potential in Fallout 4. Potential that I was able to realize even if it could have been better. Certainly, by having friends in all four factions, destroying the Brotherhood of Steel had a lot more drama than it ever would have had with a stereotypical "Good guy" choice.
I talk about the best way to play Fallout 4 here in "The Moral Ambiguity of Fallout 4"
For me, what I wanted from the Brotherhood of Steel was a big thick strawberry milkshake of fanservice and what I got was a steak and fries. There was almost no fanservice from the Lone Wanderer who wasn't even mentioned at all in the game, something that bitterly disappointed me. However, I really was invested in the Arthur Maxson story. Why? Because I was invested in the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel. I don't give a shit about the West Coast Brotherhood as, as far as I'm concerned, they're a group which should go extinct but I love the East Coast Brotherhood because that was built with your efforts as a PC.
For those who actually care about the EBoS over the WBoS, it was amazing seeing them turned into a conquering feudalist society and a force for brutality as well as racism. I felt the pain of watching Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyon's "dream" corrupted and turned to evil, even though I predicted that was what they were going to do YEARS before Fallout 4.
See my essay: "The Moral Ambiguity of Fallout 3" which is really just about how the Brotherhood of Steel in that game is hopeless flawed. It was also written in 2012, BTW. I predicted when we next saw the EBoS, they would be brutal racist conquerors out to enslave the Wasteland because the seeds were laid in F3 if you bothered to look for them.
Still, the BoS was full of likable decent people and ones you enjoyed. They were what I wanted from the ENCLAVE of all people, the chance to see the fascists from their own heroic perspective. It was painful to side against them and blow their zeppelin out of the sky--not the least because you saw Squires and children drawing crayons on the ground.
That was good writing. To show the true horrific cost of war. To see the children of the Institute and know you're going to kill them or make them homeless if you don't.
But you needed to engage with the characters first.
*reposted from another thread*
Okay, this is going to be a rather lengthy post:
Fallout 4 is not a bad game. Fallout 4 is a mediocre game that I still enjoyed a great deal. It has bad elements and a lot of unfinished half-assed qualities but the biggest problems, for me, are that it is underwhelming rather than it causes people to bleed out of their eyes from its offensiveness. I'm of the mind the game doesn't actually have a bad plot, necessarily, but that it didn't handle it well.
I think part of the issue is what people wanted from the game and whether or not you wanted a sequel to New Vegas or Fallout 3. Honestly, I think both sides were disappointed in that respect because I was ching for a sequel to Fallout 3 and eager to get into elements pre-established by my second favorite game in the series.
What did I want from Fallout 4?
For me, I was excited about F4 taking place in Massachusetts and the commercials which advertised the Brotherhood of Steel as possible enemies. I was a huge fan of the Replicant plot in F3 and wanted to see the supposedly paradisaical Institute surrounded by the pain and death of the Commonwealth. More so, I wanted a follow up to the legacy of Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyons, two beloved characters from the franchise who I had a strong pre-established affection for. One of the elements I liked a lot about Fallout 2 was the fact it followed up and showed the legacy of your character in the first game. I was definitely interested in seeing how the Brotherhood of Steel and Capital Wasteland had been affected by the Lone Wanderer and was hoping for a lot of Easter Eggs related to that.
What I got
Overall, I actually liked the Sole Survivor's plot because I was willing to follow Bethesda's pre-made route for the most part. I allowed myself to become invested in the fictional family of the Sole Survivor and was angry when the Spouse was killed, eager to murder Kellog (not the least because I actually wanted to travel the Wasteland with my Spouse since i spent an hour on her appearance), and roleplayed a character desperate to find Shaun. I even slaughtered hundreds of Raider bases across the countryside because my character assumed the Gunners were the faction which kidnapped Shaun.
The ending was where the game and I found ourselves diverging, though, because it was clear the game expected me to follow the "Destroy Institute" plan. The problem was there was absolutely no interesting story to be had there. In Skyrim, hate it as much as you want, siding with one faction or the other will screw over likable NPCs. There's no real moral ambiguity in going against the Institute save the heavy handed death of Patriot with the Railroad--which is still more than anyone else gets.
For me, ultimately, I didn't feel the story had enough drama and when that happens in a Bethesda game then you have to create your own. I chose to side with the Institute and turned against the Railroad as well as Brotherhood of Steel despite the fact both had been good to me and I'd been planning a slave revolt. My Sole Survivor couldn't justify destroying the Institute, one of the few cities left in the world as well as centers of technology, even though he was convinced his son was insane.
The resulting end to my story was bittersweet and I liked all the condemnation I got from my companions even though Piper and Nick Valentine reversed on it (mostly because I did Nick's quest afterward). It was a decently written story of Gray and Gray Morality which I enjoyed. It showed me the game wasn't unsalvable writing wise. Later, I would watch the other victories and was grossly disappointed as everyone treats the nuking of a civilization as a triumph for "good."
Still, the result of my playthrough of Fallout 4 was mostly positive because by focusing on the family element to the exclusion of others, I got a story I was able to enjoy. That tells me there was potential in Fallout 4. Potential that I was able to realize even if it could have been better. Certainly, by having friends in all four factions, destroying the Brotherhood of Steel had a lot more drama than it ever would have had with a stereotypical "Good guy" choice.
I talk about the best way to play Fallout 4 here in "The Moral Ambiguity of Fallout 4"
For me, what I wanted from the Brotherhood of Steel was a big thick strawberry milkshake of fanservice and what I got was a steak and fries. There was almost no fanservice from the Lone Wanderer who wasn't even mentioned at all in the game, something that bitterly disappointed me. However, I really was invested in the Arthur Maxson story. Why? Because I was invested in the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel. I don't give a shit about the West Coast Brotherhood as, as far as I'm concerned, they're a group which should go extinct but I love the East Coast Brotherhood because that was built with your efforts as a PC.
For those who actually care about the EBoS over the WBoS, it was amazing seeing them turned into a conquering feudalist society and a force for brutality as well as racism. I felt the pain of watching Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyon's "dream" corrupted and turned to evil, even though I predicted that was what they were going to do YEARS before Fallout 4.
See my essay: "The Moral Ambiguity of Fallout 3" which is really just about how the Brotherhood of Steel in that game is hopeless flawed. It was also written in 2012, BTW. I predicted when we next saw the EBoS, they would be brutal racist conquerors out to enslave the Wasteland because the seeds were laid in F3 if you bothered to look for them.
Still, the BoS was full of likable decent people and ones you enjoyed. They were what I wanted from the ENCLAVE of all people, the chance to see the fascists from their own heroic perspective. It was painful to side against them and blow their zeppelin out of the sky--not the least because you saw Squires and children drawing crayons on the ground.
That was good writing. To show the true horrific cost of war. To see the children of the Institute and know you're going to kill them or make them homeless if you don't.
But you needed to engage with the characters first.