The Enclave - Condemned to repeat it

cablefish

First time out of the vault
I recently saw a video on youtube presenting the argument that the Enclave could be viewed to as the good guys. The argument seems to go that in the hellish anarchy of the wastes, The Enclave seems to be the only ones with the technology, firepower and ethic flexibility to do what's necessary in order to bring civilization back to the wasteland.


I respectfully disagree. Not because I want to defend the wasteland anarchy. But because it seems pretty evident that the “civilization” The Enclave would bring about would be doomed to self destruction like the civilization that brought about the great war in the first place.


This is not just based on the fact that The Enclave seems willing to commit atrocities on a horrific scale and would therefore have no moral or ethical hesitation in using weapons of mass destruction to achieve their goals (as evident from the story of Fallout 2 and 3). It’s because of what they are and represent in the context of the Fallout overarching setting and narrative.


The end of the world as we know it

The great war in the Fallout Universe is more than an excuse to make everything mutated and dusty. It represents the end of human civilization as we know it. Everything humanity has built, learned and accomplished the last 10.000 years has been obliterated in a two hour long nuclear exchange. This apocalypse doesn’t only represent the end of billions of human lives. It’s the end of culture, social order, history and knowledge.


So the people inhabiting the wasteland of the Fallout universe are not only coping with the everyday hazards of dying to radiation or getting eaten by the odd giant mutant or lizard. They are coping with the ultimate proof that their civilization has ultimately failed.


The Fallout factions as social experiments


All the memorable religions, factions, towns and settlements in the Fallout universe represents a different way of coping with this ultimate failure of their civilization. The brotherhood believes in honor and keeping technology out of the hands of regular people will prevent the war from happening. The Followers of the Apocalypse believe in enlightenment and charity will create a better world. Even Caesars Legion are looking to history trying to revive another failed civilization.


Everyone in the wasteland are searching for some new way to rebuild society. To have a meaningful social contract between people again. Some are experimenting with old one. Some are trying out new ways. But all are basically searching for something else than what failed. Everyone except the Enclave.


Condemned to repeat it

The Enclave is set apart by the fact they are the only faction in the entire wasteland that seem hell bent on recreating the exact same society that brought about the great war in the first place. Their eye-bots spamming propaganda about the American dream. Their belief in a militarized American patriotism. Their president stating that once The Enclave gets their way “USA will once again be the policeman of the world!”(in Fallout 2).


If fallout story about what comes after the ultimate failure of human civilization The Enclave is the most evil antagonists imaginable. They are the only faction refusing to even acknowledge what the apocalypse happened. They refused to learn from the mistakes of human civilization and are therefore condemned to repeat it.
 
The problem with the video you posted is based on FO3 and FO3 is fucking stupid.

I didn't bother with watching the video as I am not interested in watching any more of Fallout 3's subject material, but I suspect that the maker of the video probably based his defence on the argument "Hey they are the descendants of the US government, have the resources, manpower, and a plan to rebuild the world, so they are much better than any organization or hierarchy that has managed to form in the wasteland."

First of all, Bethesda only presents half the picture in Fallout 3 (like they did with a lot of stuff, they half-assed it), and even though the Enclave was in general as vile as it was in Fallout 2, Fallout 2 gives a much accurate portrayal of the organization and explanation behind their organization.
And as the poster of this article already basically made clear; any 'civilization' that the Enclave would set up or organize would fall into the same failings as the US civilization before the world; a majority of have-not's and a small political-corporate elite groups of haves, the same group who in the end caused the great war to happen in the first place, a fate their new civilization is most likely to befall as well.

Even more, how is the Enclave planning to recreate a consumerist civilization like the one before the war in a world suffering from scarcity in resources such as fuel?
Most likely even their own citizens would have little when it comes to basics while the small group on top consumes most of what is left for in order to enjoy a lavish lifestyle with many luxuries. (Kind of what neo liberals are doing now too, running an economy that can not sustain itself)

The Enclave's dream was always delusion and self destructive at best.
 
the enclave are the designated nazis. that's why they are the villains.
This is false on so many levels, yet people still believe this to true. The only way the Enclave and the Nazis could ever be similar to one of another is that they both heavily involve genocide.
 
the enclave are the designated nazis. that's why they are the villains.
This is false on so many levels, yet people still believe this to true. The only way the Enclave and the Nazis could ever be similar to one of another is that they both heavily involve genocide.

Well let me see.... Oh... are you talking about Fallout 2? If you were talking about Fallout 3 I would have to disagree.
 
Fallout 3, I can understand, but it just seems many people outside of NMA does not fully understand the Enclave.
 
The problem with the video you posted is based on FO3 and FO3 is fucking stupid.

I didn't bother with watching the video as I am not interested in watching any more of Fallout 3's subject material, but I suspect that the maker of the video probably based his defence on the argument "Hey they are the descendants of the US government, have the resources, manpower, and a plan to rebuild the world, so they are much better than any organization or hierarchy that has managed to form in the wasteland."

First of all, Bethesda only presents half the picture in Fallout 3 (like they did with a lot of stuff, they half-assed it), and even though the Enclave was in general as vile as it was in Fallout 2, Fallout 2 gives a much accurate portrayal of the organization and explanation behind their organization.
And as the poster of this article already basically made clear; any 'civilization' that the Enclave would set up or organize would fall into the same failings as the US civilization before the world; a majority of have-not's and a small political-corporate elite groups of haves, the same group who in the end caused the great war to happen in the first place, a fate their new civilization is most likely to befall as well.

Even more, how is the Enclave planning to recreate a consumerist civilization like the one before the war in a world suffering from scarcity in resources such as fuel?
Most likely even their own citizens would have little when it comes to basics while the small group on top consumes most of what is left for in order to enjoy a lavish lifestyle with many luxuries. (Kind of what neo liberals are doing now too, running an economy that can not sustain itself)

The Enclave's dream was always delusion and self destructive at best.



I agree with all the criticism on Fallout 3 in this thread. Fallout 2 and New Vegas has a much more believable setting. My point on the different factions representing different ways to deal with the apocalypse doesn't really apply to Fallout 3 though as their setting is terribly shallow. This shallowness is brilliantly portrayed in this great "what do they eat?" video (that i believe you could watch safely=). However i would argue that my point regarding the Enclave stands regardless of the game. The Enclave is portrayed as following a patriotic highly militarized consumerist united states in both Fallout 2 and 3. However as with most things Fallout 2 does a much better job at making it believable.
 
It doesn't matter what your opinion on the Enclave is: what matters is that Fallout 2 fleshed them out and really made a fascinating faction, while Fallout 3 failed at creating anything remotely interesting. Bethesda are terrible, terrible storytellers.

Additionally, they are not 'the Enclave'. They are the remnants of the shadow government with a base on Control Station ENCLAVE. It was Bethesda that started this confusion (though I'll refer to the Enclave by that title to make it simple).

Moreso, Fallout 3 is ridiculous. Suddenly, out of nowhere, the Enclave has thousands of footsoldiers and they've very quickly re-established themselves 3,000 miles away from their home base? No. Not that fast, not in 40 years. The post-Fallout 2 Enclave I describe in my stories are much like the original Brotherhood of Steel in that their numbers have almost dwindled down to nothing, and they're a bunch of holdouts hiding in a small midwestern outpost. That is far more realistic.

Those in the Enclave's mainland outposts, Granite's team and the few that could escape the oil rig before its destruction are the only remnants of the Enclave- and they wouldn't add up to much. In total, I'd guess there were about 300-800 survivors.

Personally, I actually support some of what the Enclave is doing. The REAL Enclave, not the lame parody.
 
Isn't the Enclave more "morally grey" in Fallout 3 compared to Fallout 2 where they're more "morally black"?

Additionally, they are not 'the Enclave'. They are the remnants of the shadow government with a base on Control Station ENCLAVE. It was Bethesda that started this confusion (though I'll refer to the Enclave by that title to make it simple).

I dunno about that, Tagz made a good point in this thread on how the Enclave were always intended to be called the Enclave.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?202704-The-misunderstanding-that-is-the-quot-Enclave-quot
 
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Isn't the Enclave more "morally grey" in Fallout 3 compared to Fallout 2 where they're more "morally black"?

Additionally, they are not 'the Enclave'. They are the remnants of the shadow government with a base on Control Station ENCLAVE. It was Bethesda that started this confusion (though I'll refer to the Enclave by that title to make it simple).

I dunno about that, Tagz made a good point in this thread on how the Enclave were always intended to be called the Enclave.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?202704-The-misunderstanding-that-is-the-quot-Enclave-quot

Morally grey? Sure geonicide for no good reason is totally morally grey!
 
Morally grey? Sure geonicide for no good reason is totally morally grey!
Read my post again. I said "more "morally grey" in Fallout 3". They do almost no genocide in Fallout 3, while in Fallout 2 their goal was to eradicate all mutants (read; people not born in vaults) in order to rebuild America.

In Fallout 3 however, all they want to do is rule the Capitol Wasteland with an iron fist. Only Eden wants to eradicate everyone but the Enclave in general thought that to be too much and as such only want the purifier so that people will flock to them. Since the Capitol Wasteland is in such a horrendous state, the Enclave running it, even with their jackassy attitude would make it better security and resource wise. That is what makes the Enclave in F3 more morally grey compared to F2.
 
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Morally grey? Sure geonicide for no good reason is totally morally grey!
Read my post again. I said "more "morally grey" in Fallout 3". They do almost no genocide in Fallout 3, while in Fallout 2 their goal was to eradicate all mutants (read; people not born in vaults) in order to rebuild America.

In Fallout 3 however, all they want to do is rule the Capitol Wasteland with an iron fist. Only Eden wants to eradicate everyone but the Enclave in general thought that to be too much and as such only want the purifier so that people will flock to them. Since the Capitol Wasteland is in such a horrendous state, the Enclave running it, even with their jackassy attitude would make it better security and resource wise. That is what makes the Enclave in F3 more morally grey compared to F2.

Ah, fair enough. I see the logic, however Bethesda didn't really help hold that well. Overall the enclave in Fallout 3 'felt' more nazi then those in Fallout 2.
 
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