The Enclave is dead- but how would you guys feel about Enclave descendant factions?

[ElloinmorninJ]

As we all know, the Enclave is pretty fucking destroyed by now. With their defeats at the Oil Rig, and Raven Rock (+The mobile base crawler) the Enclave as a faction is mostly gone. But, I was just thinking: maybe the next Fallout game can have Enclave descended factions.

For example, he’s a starter: A small group of Enclave personnel from Navarro, maybe 20 people or so, could have evacuated into the Midwest or Colorado and founded a new faction (Neo-America? The Patriots?), based on the Enclave but different as well, with different culture and ideals.

It makes sense: When the Nazis lost the war, high officials migrated to places like South America, and made their own communities. Having the Enclave do something similar would be a cool way to see what happens to a faction after its death and how they evolve. For example, that refugee community of Enclave could try and induct locals with promises of safety go join them, sacrificing their hate of impure humans but also taking a different direction. They could found their own city-state a few generations after, and the Enclave would be just a memory.

I planned on my Fallout: Colorado idea doing something similar. What do you guys think? Constructive criticism welcome.

 

[Atomic Postman]

As we all know, the Enclave is pretty fucking destroyed by now. With their defeats at the Oil Rig, and Raven Rock (+The mobile base crawler) the Enclave as a faction is mostly gone. But, I was just thinking: maybe the next Fallout game can have Enclave descended factions.

Yes, that's a great idea! Perhaps they could be some kind of...uh....hmmm..what would you calll them? Enclave Remnants?

Joking aside I think the Enclave beyond references and headnods should be cut loose for a number of reasons. The first is that each time they come back it degrades what I found to be quite a cool part of Fallout 2's story in that there's only one "Enclave" of the United States pre-war government left, and they've gone completely bonkers. The finale of Fallout 2 is a post-nuclear tribal blowing away what seems to be the last strand of pre-war civilization. The USA laid to rest for good, and the only people to see it are cheering, not understanding what just came to an end. It's very much in the weird but dark tone of Fallout, there is something very eery about it to tinge the victory of the finale. America is gone, but what was left was rotten to the core and evocative of the madness that ruled the day prior to the bombs.

Secondly I think proliferating factions all over the shop is universe shrinking. It's something fans so consistently want, but it very rarely improves a setting. Star Wars is probably the epitome of this where the entire setting is basically boiled down to a handful of recognizable iconic tentpoles and there isn't much content beyond that, and what there is always has to wriggle and struggle out of the shadow of the things the fans want to see everywhere and all the time. Just look at how many people are clamoring for Boba Fett, Ahsoka and the Jedi in Mandalorian Season 2.

The idea of Ex-Enclave being like Argentinian Nazis is really cool, but that story I felt was told with New Vegas. Anything beyond that is just rehashing the concept. I suppose you could do ex-Enclave that are millitant instead of retired.

In my own PnP campaign I ran a one shot story prior to the beginning in which the players were NCR Rangers attempting to stop millitant ex-Enclave from constructing a dirty bomb to nuke San Francisco and the Shi, it took place about 5 years after Fallout 2. They were portrayed more like lost soldiers with no purpose or no life, only anger that wanted to go out with a bang rather than any organized force.

 

[ElloinmorninJ]

Yes, that's a great idea! Perhaps they could be some kind of...uh....hmmm..what would you calll them? Enclave Remnants?

Joking aside I think the Enclave beyond references and headnods should be cut loose for a number of reasons. The first is that each time they come back it degrades what I found to be quite a cool part of Fallout 2's story in that there's only one "Enclave" of the United States pre-war government left, and they've gone completely bonkers. The finale of Fallout 2 is a post-nuclear tribal blowing away what seems to be the last strand of pre-war civilization. The USA laid to rest for good, and the only people to see it are cheering, not understanding what just came to an end. It's very much in the weird but dark tone of Fallout, there is something very eery about it to tinge the victory of the finale. America is gone, but what was left was rotten to the core and evocative of the madness that ruled the day prior to the bombs.

Secondly I think proliferating factions all over the shop is universe shrinking. It's something fans so consistently want, but it very rarely improves a setting. Star Wars is probably the epitome of this where the entire setting is basically boiled down to a handful of recognizable iconic tentpoles and there isn't much content beyond that, and what there is always has to wriggle and struggle out of the shadow of the things the fans want to see everywhere and all the time. Just look at how many people are clamoring for Boba Fett, Ahsoka and the Jedi in Mandalorian Season 2.

The idea of Ex-Enclave being like Argentinian Nazis is really cool, but that story I felt was told with New Vegas. Anything beyond that is just rehashing the concept.

At most, have a new faction that has some Enclave-style tendencies but can stand on their own in terms of creative originality, and then have a little secret nugget that reveals one of its founders was a former member of the Enclvae.

Very good points. But the Enclave remnants were just five old people. I want to see a somewhat larger group of them.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Very good points. But the Enclave remnants were just five old people. I want to see a somewhat larger group of them.

Why not something new? What hasn't been done with the Enclave that needs doing? If the answer is "They need to be in stuff because they're cool" then you are on the same track-path as Bethesda with the BoS and Super-Mutants or the people who mandate everything Star Wars must include the Jedi.

The reason this sort of questioning applies to the Enclave is because they had their time and place and that went away, their existence beyond Fallout 2 was always going to require additional justification.

 

[ElloinmorninJ]

Why not something new? What hasn't been done with the Enclave that needs doing? If the answer is "They need to be in stuff because they're cool" then you are on the same track-path as Bethesda with the BoS and Super-Mutants or the people who mandate everything Star Wars must include the Jedi.

The reason this sort of questioning applies to the Enclave is because they had their time and place and that went away, their existence beyond Fallout 2 was always going to require additional justification.

Oh no they wouldn’t have to be something major. Just a nod to the old days.

 

[TorontoReign]

I think the Remnants are how the Enclave should be depicted.

 

[TheGM]

I think the Remnants are how the Enclave should be depicted.

Pretty much this. or even descendants of but who are barely or not even aware of their connection to the Enclave. I'm totally fine with you stumbling into a old base or weapons stash of theirs. but as a an actual fighting faction, just move on. as a side note I always thought the Enclave shouldn't refer to themselves as such. they should always refer to themselves as The United States of America.

In my own PnP campaign I ran a one shot story prior to the beginning in which the players were NCR Rangers attempting to stop millitant ex-Enclave from constructing a dirty bomb to nuke San Francisco and the Shi

So it was a villain campaign since that was indeed a noble goal.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I think the Remnants are how the Enclave should be depicted.

One thing I liked about the Remnants is that several of them had clearly put the Enclave life far behind them and were at peace, but didn't really hold any regrets whatsoever and thought back on their service fondly. It wasn't a very depthful storyline but I appreciated that it wasn't just "Regretful good guys and bitter evil guys".

So it was a villain campaign since that was indeed a noble goal.

The majority of the one-shot didn't even really focus on that plot. The Enclave were buying uranium from the Van Graffs as part of a overly-complicated black market deal (the idea was that the Enclave traded the Van Graffs bulk energy weapons which kickstarts their business down the line) and so the Ranger party were sent to infiltrate as undercover cops the New Reno gangs to uncover the potential Enclave connection.

One shot started in-res of the party waking up hangover style in the penthouse of one of the Van Graff kids (OD'd in the bathtub) with no memory of the night before as they'd been roofied/drugged to all hell whilst partying undercover.

They ended up stopping the trade but it was basically by chance and incidental to not getting their testicles removed by mobsters.

 

[TorontoReign]

One thing I liked about the Remnants is that several of them had clearly put the Enclave life far behind them and were at peace, but didn't really hold any regrets whatsoever and thought back on their service fondly. It wasn't a very depthful storyline but I appreciated that it wasn't just "Regretful good guys and bitter evil guys".

It was one of the best side storylines in the game. I just wish it had more meat.

 

[Atomic Postman]

It was one of the best side storylines in the game. I just wish it had more meat.

Yeah. Even just talking to them more about their thoughts on the Enclave, their ideology and their failed plot would have been really great.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

If done right, I think it would be cool.

There's a lot of concepts that could work:

- Enclave remnants going full Apocalypse Now among the "Primitives". Going full native, creating their own bizarre cult/gang. Maybe some death cult or cargo cult american patriotism.

- Elitist Enclave types using their firepower to create their own little elitist society where non-pure humans are second-class citizens. Think Vault City with x100 the firepower and brutality. The elites are always on guard from mutations, perhaps to the point of absurdity - living in bunkers and vaults, using masks and suits to protect themselves when going outside and being exposed, only drinking their own purified water and eating their own pure food, etc. Maybe they all obssessively check themselves for mutagen contamination, and Rad-Away addictions are commons.

Maybe they dig up a vault or two to up their numbers and breeding popullation.

No pretensions of being America or Democracy or anything like that, just a society based on a caste system where the elites are "pure" humans, "unpure" humans serve them, and mutants are at the bottom. Propaganda and brainwashing to compel the "inferior" humans to accept their own inferiority and serve their masters, and safety and decent-ish living conditions as a carrot - its better than being a mud gruber who will get raped then murdered by raiders. Those who dissent disappear in the night, or are loudly exterminated to serve as an example.

And this is all backed by Enclave-tier firepower and tech.


- More idealistic Enclave types deciding to create their own nation. America is dead and so is the Enclave, but perhaps something new and different can thrive. Think US --> Brotherhood of Steel progression.

- Enclave folks settling down and helping another faction.


Considering five men in APA toting enclve weapons might as well be fifty or even five hundred, the potential for Enclave splinters getting their own will done is immense.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

There should just be more American Gov Remnant factions that aren't Enclave, is my take. It's a big country in full cold-war mania. The USM should have more survivors than just BoS and Enclave. The various departments and their forces should have some stragglers. Nat Guard. Sporadic 'Interim' or 'Emergency' or 'Provisional' Federal or State governments. So on and so on.

 

[Atomic Postman]

There should just be more American Gov Remnant factions that aren't Enclave, is my take. It's a big country in full cold-war mania. The USM should have more survivors than just BoS and Enclave. The various departments and their forces should have some stragglers. Nat Guard. Sporadic 'Interim' or 'Emergency' or 'Provisional' Federal or State governments. So on and so on.

I always imagined that was the case but they either died out or evolved into something else. Like how in Van Buren, the Blackfoot Tribe were descended from national guardsmen who settled on a farm.

Also Fallout 76 does exactly what you're talking about, a faction called "The Responders" and they're massively boring because they're just.....government guys trying to establish order.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

I always imagined that was the case but they either died out or evolved into something else. Like how in Van Buren, the Blackfoot Tribe were descended from national guardsmen who settled on a farm.

Also Fallout 76 does exactly what you're talking about, a faction called "The Responders" and they're massively boring because they're just.....government guys trying to establish order.

I thought the Responders were more Civilian Defense + Police + Ambulance + Firefighters who stuck around.

A government faction has to be a bit too big for its britches, a bit zany, or a bit malevolent to work IMO. Like 'The Provisional State of New York has spent the first hundred years after the war in a vault, another hundred pacifying the West, and is now here to return New York City to its former glory!' and stuff like that.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I thought the Responders were more Civilian Defense + Police + Ambulance + Firefighters who stuck around.

A government faction has to be a bit too big for its britches, a bit zany, or a bit malevolent to work IMO. Like 'The Provisional State of New York has spent the first hundred years after the war in a vault, another hundred pacifying the West, and is now here to return New York City to its former glory!' and stuff like that.

Personally I think the less government descendants the better. It works better for the Fallout setting if the Great War effectively and conclusively culled the United States rather than fragmenting it, small as those fragments may be. The only remaining legacy of the US being the Enclave on the rig, only to then be forever wiped out by the Chosen One and the old USA and it's legacy dead forever was part of what made them effective IMO

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

There should just be more American Gov Remnant factions that aren't Enclave, is my take.

Agreed.

I remember some guys in AHCOM having an idea of the post-apoc BADTLF using all their aprehended drugs, tobacco, lasers and firearms to pretty much do some breaking bad in the aftermath of the war.

We also had an idea about the Secret Service hanging around Fort Knox, which doesn't have just gold but some cool stuff as well but I forgot what, lol.

Today I thought about the Border Patrol turning into a border watch order in the border between Texas and Mexico. My idea was that they were even more militarized than in our universe, because the US feared the arrival of all kinds of trouble from Mexico - guerillas, refugees, the works - and they also wanted to protect Mexico from the New Plague as well.

Kinda like the Night Watch, but less stringent, less vows of chastity and more loose military base and vehicles. Protecting the border, making trade safe, fighting violent mexican invasions, etc. Also, on the lookout for a "Menace from the South" which they don't know what is but the founder of their order warned would come... eventually. Nobody knows what it truly is, but it is inevitable... allegedly.

And in a touch of irony, probably look more latin than the usual Texan. Hell, that's already reality.

(maybe there's a northern equivalent on the Canadian border too?)

A government faction has to be a bit too big for its britches, a bit zany, or a bit malevolent to work IMO.

Agreed.

Its why the Enclave works. Same for the NCR, which is an interesting multi-sided faction.

I feel like "American restorers restore America, the Constitution, Rule of Law and bring the US back like it was one day after the war and nothing happened" is a lame Fallout fanfiction trope. Often found in Good!Enclave wanks.

It works better for the Fallout setting if the Great War effectively and conclusively culled the United States rather than fragmenting it, small as those fragments may be.

Agreed.

Great War is like the Fall of the Roman Empire for the US. The East survived (and "American ERE" is something I would like to see in the series if done right) but it changed and evolved, keeping roman while being its own thing, to the point some people ask if its actually a continuation of the Roman Empire.

We also had the Carolinglian Empire, which is not a continuation as much as a "Spiritual Sucessor", a slot I feel is already filled by the NCR.

Would be interesting to see American Soissons, and maybe an American "Britain" as well.

I do think, through, that the Pre-War US (and many other nations) didn't die with the nukes. I don't think all these government forces would just die out. Rather, the pre-war world died over the course of the late 21th century, with several remnants trying to restore order, survive, fix things, but reality killed or changed them. Imagine, trying to hold the darkness of the Long Night.

Would't surprise me if the Wasteland is full of wannabe American Warlords to this day. Of course, two centuries later, its taken about as seriously as the miles-long list of randos through history who declared themselves heirs to the Romans.

The United States will never be one country again.

 

[Sublime]

I actually thought of a new faction of descendants of the Enclave. They are scientists and officers that were captured during the assault on Navarro and subsequently "paperclipped" in the NCR. In time they manage to form a powerful secret society maneuvering the Republic from the Shadows.

So yeah, back at square one, where their ancestors were before the War.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

i thought it would be interesting for a fallout game set in Texas. maybe not so much now obviously since the enclave are basically destroyed. but anyway my idea is that a group of Texan Nationalists wanting to secede from the united states and form their own republic of texas or at least in the eyes of the enclave viewing them as secessionists. with the enclave trying to takeover texas in order to reunite america.

 

[PaxVenire]

I don’t want necessarily remnants again, but I wouldn’t mind more factions based on whatever warped ideology said faction had of the old world. The Gunners in Fallout 4 were pretty cool to me basing their whole raider gang on old world American military uniformity and command structure. I feel the Enclave shouldn’t be known other from boogeyman stories the NCR have been telling since their defeat on the oil rig imo.

 

[Snake Plisskin]

I don’t want necessarily remnants again, but I wouldn’t mind more factions based on whatever warped ideology said faction had of the old world. The Gunners in Fallout 4 were pretty cool to me basing their whole raider gang on old world American military uniformity and command structure. I feel the Enclave shouldn’t be known other from boogeyman stories the NCR have been telling since their defeat on the oil rig imo.

I definitely think the "boogeyman" status of the Enclave is a proper send off of that faction, and maybe some former members might take their military knowledge and training and apply it to their own individual lives (mercenaries, caravans) or maybe even apply it in a Gunner-like raider/mercenary faction.
The only Enclave presence that I would really like to see be addressed more is their Chicago outpost referenced by ED-E in Fo:NV. Maybe that could be the last bastion of the old world U.S. government.