The F4 BOS retcon and the Capital Wasteland

[cruddas]

Learning a bit more about fallout 4, they once again borked up with the lore there too, the t-60? That could have EASILY been a new post war power armor made from the data that they certainly should have gotten from adams air force base, all that APAmk2 and other tech from the remains of the crawler and raven rock? Nope, just another pre war power armor because bethesda.

 

[eissa]

Speaking of stagnating, I've had an issue with each successive game being farther along in the time line. My point is that its getting harder to believe that the world is as fucked as it is when the NCR exists in Southern California. At some point, somewhere, someone else would have founded another nation state. It would be easier and give whomever more of a creative license if the games were set between Tactics and 2. The existing factions (BoS and NCR) wouldn't be as spread out and they'd have to come up with new groups, which means more thinking and that isn't Bethesda's thing, but food for thought.

there will be era or time period in fallout universe where it will be considered beyond post-apocalyptic enough so that great war is like reading about the fall of rome in 11 century. just like when history become legend, legend become myth, so does the great war will. the pre-war ghoul will reduced to a handful of individual, and new society will established as the inheritor of old world.

Of course scavenging is long gone and the economy have replaced with sustainable one. hopefully this will be what the next chapter of fallout about.

 

[Spacemunkey]

there will be era or time period in fallout universe where it will be considered beyond post-apocalyptic enough so that great war is like reading about the fall of rome in 11 century. just like when history become legend, legend become myth, so does the great war will. the pre-war ghoul will reduced to a handful of individual, and new society will established as the inheritor of old world.

Of course scavenging is long gone and the economy have replaced with sustainable one. hopefully this will be what the next chapter of fallout about.

Is BGS selling the Fallout ip, because they are obsessed with prewar crap. My guess is the only significant jump in the timeline will be far enough to not have to adhere to anything that happened in FO1/2/NV. The West Coast is too tempting for them to leave it alone, especially when they are already talking about lost cities under the Mojave.

 

[Izak]

BGS would be the type to nuke the West Coast in order to remove everything that they didn't create, it has to be done in order to preserve Todd's "vision".

 

[Sn1p3r187]

there will be era or time period in fallout universe where it will be considered beyond post-apocalyptic enough so that great war is like reading about the fall of rome in 11 century. just like when history become legend, legend become myth, so does the great war will. the pre-war ghoul will reduced to a handful of individual, and new society will established as the inheritor of old world.

Of course scavenging is long gone and the economy have replaced with sustainable one. hopefully this will be what the next chapter of fallout about.

That would actually be an interesting concept. I think those handful of individual prewar ghouls would be the only evidence that the great war happened. Going by their word that it did. It'd be interesting none the less but I feel like as soon as things go to actually economy and society begins to get close to the prewar state or at least beyond it. It'd be like an RPG set in modern times or something like that. Which has been done, but it wasn't well received cough*Alpha Protocol*cough.

 

[eissa]

That would actually be an interesting concept. I think those handful of individual prewar ghouls would be the only evidence that the great war happened. Going by their word that it did. It'd be interesting none the less but I feel like as soon as things go to actually economy and society begins to get close to the prewar state or at least beyond it. It'd be like an RPG set in modern times or something like that. Which has been done, but it wasn't well received cough*Alpha Protocol*cough.

imagine the world of deus ex invisible war minus the augmentation part. http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Collapse
fallout in those timeline will surely be different, at least in civiliian live the tertiary sector of economy become more viable again.

 

[CT Phipps]

Unless of course they just decide to sacrifice more logic for "immursun" and never expand on humanity's progress after the war. 80 years pass, the world is a shithole, 200 and people still haven't moved forward, so what's stopping them from having the next game 400 years later and still without any progress?

I'm confused at the assumption that the world gets better rather than worse. The ecology in Fallout has become permanently hostile to human beings and aggressively dangerous thanks to FEV as well as radiation. The environment is not condusive to human survival or population growth. Technology will not get better as most of the resources to make it no longer exist.

Humanity could very well never recover.

 

[Izak]

I'm confused at the assumption that the world gets better rather than worse. The ecology in Fallout has become permanently hostile to human beings and aggressively dangerous thanks to FEV as well as radiation. The environment is not condusive to human survival or population growth. Technology will not get better as most of the resources to make it no longer exist.

Humanity could very well never recover.

If there's one thing we're good at as a species it's adaption and given that working governments have already emerged on the West and Mid-West, it seems as though everything's going fine.

 

[CT Phipps]

If there's one thing we're good at as a species it's adaption and given that working governments have already emerged on the West and Mid-West, it seems as though everything's going fine.

I prefer the more cynical view of humanity as presented by the whole "War never changes." Humanity is incapable of changing its violent and brutal nature so that no matter how high a civilization we build up, we will inevitably destroy it in war and hatred over the most trivial of reasons. At the end of the day, we're not the Followers of the Apocalypse, we're Raiders.

Then again, I may want to back away from this view as it makes me Chris Avellone.

 

[Izak]

I prefer the more cynical view of humanity as presented by the whole "War never changes." Humanity is incapable of changing its violent and brutal nature so that no matter how high a civilization we build up, we will inevitably destroy it in war and hatred over the most trivial of reasons. At the end of the day, we're not the Followers of the Apocalypse, we're Raiders.

Then again, I may want to back away from this view as it makes me Chris Avellone.

That doesn't really apply to building civilizations in a hostile environment. Conflict will continue because in the Fallouts released thus far it has continued but that doesn't prevent humanity's progress.

 

[CT Phipps]

That doesn't really apply to building civilizations in a hostile environment. Conflict will continue because in the Fallouts released thus far it has continued but that doesn't prevent humanity's progress.

Allow me to rephrase. "I think the amount of nukes in the setting means that humanity will eradicate any civilization which rises up."

The Lone Wanderer destroys the Raven Rock civilization or John Henry Eden does as a result of his actions (or the BoS does) with the BOS annihilating the Enclave's civilization.

Caesar's Legion falls to chaos if defeated by NCR.

The White Legs get massacred.

Arthur Maxson literally recreates the Great War and annihilates the Institute in one of the ending.

The Post-War world is one where compromise and coexistence no longer exists.

 

[Izak]

But everyone of these examples leads to the stagnation, or more likely obliteration, of one group to the benefit of another. And that's how it works, the victor shapes the future and humanity keeps on truckin'.
Basically, if MAD ever reduces us to ashes we'll simply pick up the ruble and start again, and humanity will continue.

 

[CT Phipps]

But everyone of these examples leads to the stagnation, or more likely obliteration, of one group to the benefit of another. And that's how it works, the victor shapes the future and humanity keeps on truckin'.
Basically, if MAD ever reduces us to ashes we'll simply pick up the ruble and start again, and humanity will continue.

Or go extinct. It's possible that's what's happening to the Fallout humanity, just with momentary reversals.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

Or go extinct. It's possible that's what's happening to the Fallout humanity, just with momentary reversals.

Would be bleak, but humanity in the Fallout universe deserves it imo. They can't work together to create a better future. You have Caesar, Kimball and House, all bickering over who is the best for the wasteland, whilst the wastelanders that make up their empires die by the hundreds. There are good people, but good people can't survive without some godlike mailman/tribal helping them.

 

[Juza The Cloud]

I can sadly almost imagine a time where Fallout is a post poc flashgordon type affair in the solar system with perwar space craft, ghoulstronauts and Zetans and now Synths. All off and about on robco atomic rockets to satellites, lunar colonies and other such nonsense.

 

[CT Phipps]

Would be bleak, but humanity in the Fallout universe deserves it imo. They can't work together to create a better future. You have Caesar, Kimball and House, all bickering over who is the best for the wasteland, whilst the wastelanders that make up their empires die by the hundreds. There are good people, but good people can't survive without some godlike mailman/tribal helping them.

Pretty much my opinion on the subject. It's why Fallout 3 got me emotionally invested because the Lone Wanderer really is the only hope for the region. If he doesn't dramatically murder off the Super Mutants, Raiders, and Enclave then those factions will destroy the few surviving communities left even without John Henry Eden poisoning everyone. There's a real sense you have to personally turn an impossible situation around all by yourself as Elder Lyons is losing the war badly because of his poor tactical choices.

http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-morality-ambiguity-of-brotherhood.html

It's really a world where Good feels rarer than Evil and I think that makes Fallout feel more intense as an experience as a result.

 

[CaptJ]

Seeing F4 let´s play, reading the wiki and lurking frequently in NMA forums I realized something about the state of the CW after F3.

1. The BOS under Maxson became the dominat power in the D.C area, meaning at some point they had to stop being the little b*tches to a bunch of retarded orcs and started being a effective fighting force.

2. The fact that the brotherhood became feudal overlords in the capital wasteland means they had to force the innabitants to get of their lazy asses and start farming (something that a lack of has been a major complain in these forums)

It is just Bethesda listening to people's complaints about the BoS and changing it without thinking like the Broken Steal ending. Bethesda does listen to criticism but their response it would make you wish that they didn't. The Karma system is dumb. Removed it completely. Weapon deterioration was stupid. Now, it is limited to Power
armor.