What is this place? A fallout forum or the new episode of neighbours?
The Fall Preview
- Thread starter Odin
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Saint_Proverbius
Vault Senior Citizen
Briosafreak said:
I've said the same things to Odin I've said in IRC. Yeah, I think he's a bit too wishy-washy at times. No BEEG SEKRET there.
I don't recall ever asking Odin if he'd like to do stuff at RPG Codex. We've agreed to do some joint ventures, but I've never said, Hey Odin! Come do stuff at RPG Codex!
Some people have faith that mindless fanboys can be redeemed.
No, actually, I'd clip you logs where I was ragging on you for something. That kind of flies in the face of your whole, PROV TALKZ ABOOT US BEEHIND ARE BACKZ stuff because I actually sent you the stuff I'd say when the subject came up.
Captain Clueless, you do know that Steve and I are JOKING AROUND With one another, RIGHT? No? Get a clue. I talk to Steve all the damned time on ICQ, and we kid each other there the same way we do on the forums. Here's a sample for kicks:
- 2/11/2004 1:03 PM Saint_Proverbius Smoking is cool, faggot!
2/11/2004 1:07 AM TheLord I was expecting you
2/11/2004 1:07 AM TheLord oh well
2/11/2004 1:07 AM Saint_Proverbius Hi, Steve!
2/11/2004 1:07 AM TheLord Hi Clayton!
2/11/2004 1:08 AM TheLord Silent Storm rocks
2/11/2004 1:08 AM TheLord its missing things that I'm doing like movement fire...but thats while I'll rock even more
And then we had a nice long discussion on how cool the Silent Storm engine is. You know, because we HATE ONE ANOTHER WITH ALL THE VILE, LOATHSOME VENOM WE CAN MUSTER.
I take it your hiatus for man sex turned up fruitless.
Mr. Teatime said:
Yet we manage to host indie CRPG forums for devs who can't afford to spend the time or resources hosting them on their own. We get the occational post from Tim Cain and Feargie even started a thread on there about combat systems in CRPGs. Hell, I just got an email today from a developer who told me he liked the site. Here's a clip:
- By the way, I really enjoy reading your site. I hadn't heard about RPGCodex when you first contacted us about the interview last year, and was turned off by some of the racist comments from a few people, but afterwards it's become part of my everyday routine. There are some very intelligent people lurking around your forums (although some juvenile ones too). Anyway, keep it up. You're doing the genre a good thing.
It also seems to be a good enough site and forum for you to lurk on, because I see your name in the user list all the time, Teatime.
Saint_Proverbius said:
Actually you did.....
But I'll say this, keep this up SP and I'm kicking you to the curb where you actually belong. Yes many of the DACers have thrown crap at me and behind me, it really doesn't bother me anymore.
Childish behaviour like that is just that, childish. But SP comment in this thread wasn't that offensive, sure he has a smirk about the comment but all in all it was a "funny" comment.
Except for his comments to Briosafreak, which was out of line.
But I'm getting really sick of this...... I'll let you all draw a conclusion from that, keep this up and I'm cleaning this house..
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Saint_Proverbius said:
Yet if he left NMA and went to work for you he wasn`t going to be wishy-washy? Thanks again for proving my point on the way you hate NMA.
OH I DO!!!!
When we work with devs acting as bridges to the community, on Fallout3, the Fall, Metalheart and so on we are fanboys. When you organise dev chats at #RPGCodex, talk to Fergus and Fargo you`re just doing your job. Brilliant. You know IT ISN`T SOMEONE FROM NMA THAT HAS THE NAME ON LIONHEARTS CREDITS, IT´S YOU.
How convenient, forgetting the rest of i wrote: and doing even worse when he thought i wasn`t around on #fallout or #rpgcodex. In all impunity.
Hope they like the way you shoved their talks to me, by the way.
Thanks for not denying you want NMA to be a non-dev zone. And your sudden love for Steve, when you used to call him bitch all the time doesn`t have nothing to do on the fact he started posting on the Codex right? You weren`t as friendly when he just posted at DAC...
Why are you so insecure of your sexuality?
The site is nice, although the cult following of your persona is a bit ridiculous, i was raised to think on my own, but hell that`s your place, all i want is you to FUCKING STOP to try to take this place down.
And i also have a dev quote for you:
And another:
If you want to be like that fine, just don`t bring that to NMA.
welsh
Junkmaster
I think Odin was pretty clear.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4919&start=60
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4944&start=20
Personally, I don't mind you folks throwing a little shit at each other. This might not be DAC but it's not a house of pansies either. At NMA you got to have some thick skin.
As stated earlier, I'm new on the board, perhaps here I overstep. But let me be clear.
(1) if this was mudwrestling, it would at least be funny.
(2) I am not getting paid for this, so don't waste my time.
If a developer posts here, they are just as likely to take shit as the next person. That said, this should not be a place for pure flaming either.
Mind your manners.
You got something constructive to say, say it.
If you've got an issue that's pertinent, say it.
If you are just here to flame, shut the fuck up.
I may have a sense of humor, but I don't have much patience. So mind your manners.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4919&start=60
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4944&start=20
Personally, I don't mind you folks throwing a little shit at each other. This might not be DAC but it's not a house of pansies either. At NMA you got to have some thick skin.
As stated earlier, I'm new on the board, perhaps here I overstep. But let me be clear.
(1) if this was mudwrestling, it would at least be funny.
(2) I am not getting paid for this, so don't waste my time.
If a developer posts here, they are just as likely to take shit as the next person. That said, this should not be a place for pure flaming either.
Mind your manners.
You got something constructive to say, say it.
If you've got an issue that's pertinent, say it.
If you are just here to flame, shut the fuck up.
I may have a sense of humor, but I don't have much patience. So mind your manners.
Mr. Teatime said:
Agreed.
The road of Codex, DaC and former Vault13 is one road, it attracts lots of people because they all think it's t3h amusing to watch devs and dev houses being bashed.
It's the high inroad to instant fame, but I'm not proposing we go that road.
I've known Roshambo for fucking ages (though he always remains a mystery to me, but he was my board cop mentor) and generally my experience with him is that he shuts his mouth unless he knows (almost) everything there is to know of the subject, and only if that's the case chooses to launch an attack, always with good arguments and backing, tho' a little rough at times.
That's very different from very unsubstantiated attacks, like simply stating that the Fall will suck without ever having paid much attention to it or attacking the Van Buren plot from the little that was known of it.
This is a free forum, more or less, and the laws of free speech apply here. I, personally, will never obstruct or ban substantiated and well-stated criticisms. Devs aren't gods just because they're devs. If you have something to say, say it.
All the swearing, mindless bashing and the constant stream of unsubstantiated criticism simply leads nowhere and does so with some haste too. I don't want this forum to end up like on of "those" places.
Of course, on the other hand you have to guard against becoming the kind of "sucky-sucky 5 dollars"-place who constantly fellate game companies, like most professional magazines. Criticism is fine, even if the admins don't agree with it, as long as there's some reason behind it.
Oh, but that just go for one side of the cause either; Kumquat, I know these people piss you off, personally, but this board has rules. Don't attack and flame people like that unless you feel like getting a swift kick in the butt, bud. Especially this time; this pisses me off, he did nothing to directly provoke you.
PS: sorry for the reply, Odin, I didn't read your "no more replies" request 'till I posted. Won't do it again.
A bit of a note and some explanations:
I do not change the avatars of those who disagree with me, nor do I give them special ranks. Those who violate netiquette, especially in the lurking and informed part, I will take objection to. It goes the same way for those who troll, post blatantly trolling posts, and more. Those who have done what they have done, like kumquatq3, the same. Frankly, I'm not sure why I haven't banned him just yet for what he's done. It's pretty bad to see people come to his defense when he's posted a number of double-posts with the sole intent of goading someone, posts complete non-sequiturs to the conversation as means of a reply, has backstabbed Odin and NMA repeatedly for his own personal glory, while those usually replying to him only do some of the same but add something else, the topic points. There's a big difference.
Also, there's a difference from bridging a community and giving extensive feedback towards a game that looks quite doubtful and made by a developer that has had extremely questionable experience. There's a difference from posting news and screenshots you can glean from the developers and having to do their work for them.
No, fanboying is when you treat people like they can do no wrong or if they can do miracles because of their name or where they've worked or currently work, or try to cover up the stupid remarks they made by deleting them. I have told several developers personally what they've made mistakes on - if it works to do so, and many of them have agreed that their solution was in err, most of which I include in the same critique. Otherwise, it's for the public. A good case of this would be in suggesting that SSE completely forgets about acquiring Fallout and goes for Fallout's "Remember Fallout?" as Fallout was to Wasteland. It's a win-win situation as SSE gets their own title and setting as developmental property, and we get to see a new post-apocalyptic game and setting. Quite frankly, I think most of the Fallout fans who have been around for awhile are sick of hearing Fallout's name as it becomes nothing more than a taste of ashes in their mouth as the name is repeatedly attributed several releases that were less than the scope of Fallout, and many things that are supposed to get their interest because of the name Fallout. Don't jump through the hoops, folks.
As for developers and devs being "bashed", I've really not seen much of that unless you'd count Chucky and Crew, or the general idiocy of the Interplay hegemony, or how nearly every BioWare developer fellates BioWare's ability in almost every interview, and then come up with excuses like one dev did and says that different paths cause for "exponentially more work". I will say there's been some slices of humbie pie served scorching hot to a few, as it should be. "X sucks" isn't tolerated (except for F
OS and a few other games, then it's cathartic), but if you have an informative and based reason to say that, then that is fine.
NMA is a bit far from how V13 was because of the absense of clannies, and I'm glad I raised objections to having any clannies hosted here. The Order is a pretty neat bunch, but have never been as disruptive as the problems at V13 or DAC. Those places had to take a negative tone else the occasional forum fanboying for FOT or FOS would have to be a bit choking anything else off. DAC had it's own problms, but mostly the people there have been a bit cheesed off more than once by how Interplay or someone else has one their thing at the fans' expense and are quite jaded at those who try to panhandle off the names of games they have enjoyed. Most of those at DAC are V13 and old DAC regulars and have seen this stuff before, plus some are of the SomethingAwful crowd, like many developers I know. NMA also has a standing observation of "No Morons Allowed" Empty supposition is as suicidal now as it was in the past, and I think Kharn remembers the things we used to do to people with the WebBBS script when they posted nonsense.
Quite honestly, I think negative sites are needed as a sort of counter to the media whores that only care abot money and kissing the asses of nearly any developer who works at A Name that would talk to them or post on their forums.
At least there's one thing we can offer to those who read, if we like something despite our harsh standards and it survives criticism, then people will likely look to that title as a good deal. Versus wasting their money on such titles as Lionheart and more.
Also notice that the real negativity is for utter crap like FOS, and some heat will be put into news items if it's truly a bad thing, but otherwise I've seen very little ill remarks in the news itself. News is news, opinions of many sorts may follow. As for people's opinions, those are a different thing, and I think people should be entitled to them, but refrain from making uneducated declaritive statements (which is usually what bites most in the ass). It should also be in realistic proportions or the person should expect to be called on it. Saying that people should start expecting Fallout from SSE just because they had a couple (or one) junior developers hired is...well, to anyone who knows the industry, that would be a Cindarella story that would be on the front page of all major news sites.
I know there's a good number of people here from other countries and whatever, but one thing has to be observed - is it right to expect a dog to not snarl after they've been jerked around a few times and now someone else is trying to tug on the strings? This is an industry issue, and not a personal one. People will feel about it personally, mainly since they're the ones who should be feeling something since they are the ones who are often the victims of dishonesty. This goes for any company, any title.
As for some of the prodding? Dear god, people, take a valium or three and release the o-ring before you turn yourselves inside-out. It's the internet, you can't take shit personally, and that's why some people are gruff to get your attention. Niceness or laxness is ignored and does nothing but bring in idiots. Case in point: SomethingAwful, before they had the forum cost, the forums were often a complete mess. Apparently, this place is expected to be Bambi Land when many other sites have been far worse than all of the Fallout fansites together and THEN SOME. We're in the context of Fallout and game development.
I do like this line, especially when you know of the show - "What is this place? A Fallout forum or the new episode of Neighbours?"
I do not change the avatars of those who disagree with me, nor do I give them special ranks. Those who violate netiquette, especially in the lurking and informed part, I will take objection to. It goes the same way for those who troll, post blatantly trolling posts, and more. Those who have done what they have done, like kumquatq3, the same. Frankly, I'm not sure why I haven't banned him just yet for what he's done. It's pretty bad to see people come to his defense when he's posted a number of double-posts with the sole intent of goading someone, posts complete non-sequiturs to the conversation as means of a reply, has backstabbed Odin and NMA repeatedly for his own personal glory, while those usually replying to him only do some of the same but add something else, the topic points. There's a big difference.
Also, there's a difference from bridging a community and giving extensive feedback towards a game that looks quite doubtful and made by a developer that has had extremely questionable experience. There's a difference from posting news and screenshots you can glean from the developers and having to do their work for them.
No, fanboying is when you treat people like they can do no wrong or if they can do miracles because of their name or where they've worked or currently work, or try to cover up the stupid remarks they made by deleting them. I have told several developers personally what they've made mistakes on - if it works to do so, and many of them have agreed that their solution was in err, most of which I include in the same critique. Otherwise, it's for the public. A good case of this would be in suggesting that SSE completely forgets about acquiring Fallout and goes for Fallout's "Remember Fallout?" as Fallout was to Wasteland. It's a win-win situation as SSE gets their own title and setting as developmental property, and we get to see a new post-apocalyptic game and setting. Quite frankly, I think most of the Fallout fans who have been around for awhile are sick of hearing Fallout's name as it becomes nothing more than a taste of ashes in their mouth as the name is repeatedly attributed several releases that were less than the scope of Fallout, and many things that are supposed to get their interest because of the name Fallout. Don't jump through the hoops, folks.
As for developers and devs being "bashed", I've really not seen much of that unless you'd count Chucky and Crew, or the general idiocy of the Interplay hegemony, or how nearly every BioWare developer fellates BioWare's ability in almost every interview, and then come up with excuses like one dev did and says that different paths cause for "exponentially more work". I will say there's been some slices of humbie pie served scorching hot to a few, as it should be. "X sucks" isn't tolerated (except for F
OS and a few other games, then it's cathartic), but if you have an informative and based reason to say that, then that is fine.NMA is a bit far from how V13 was because of the absense of clannies, and I'm glad I raised objections to having any clannies hosted here. The Order is a pretty neat bunch, but have never been as disruptive as the problems at V13 or DAC. Those places had to take a negative tone else the occasional forum fanboying for FOT or F
OS would have to be a bit choking anything else off. DAC had it's own problms, but mostly the people there have been a bit cheesed off more than once by how Interplay or someone else has one their thing at the fans' expense and are quite jaded at those who try to panhandle off the names of games they have enjoyed. Most of those at DAC are V13 and old DAC regulars and have seen this stuff before, plus some are of the SomethingAwful crowd, like many developers I know. NMA also has a standing observation of "No Morons Allowed" Empty supposition is as suicidal now as it was in the past, and I think Kharn remembers the things we used to do to people with the WebBBS script when they posted nonsense.Quite honestly, I think negative sites are needed as a sort of counter to the media whores that only care abot money and kissing the asses of nearly any developer who works at A Name that would talk to them or post on their forums.
At least there's one thing we can offer to those who read, if we like something despite our harsh standards and it survives criticism, then people will likely look to that title as a good deal. Versus wasting their money on such titles as Lionheart and more.
Also notice that the real negativity is for utter crap like F
OS, and some heat will be put into news items if it's truly a bad thing, but otherwise I've seen very little ill remarks in the news itself. News is news, opinions of many sorts may follow. As for people's opinions, those are a different thing, and I think people should be entitled to them, but refrain from making uneducated declaritive statements (which is usually what bites most in the ass). It should also be in realistic proportions or the person should expect to be called on it. Saying that people should start expecting Fallout from SSE just because they had a couple (or one) junior developers hired is...well, to anyone who knows the industry, that would be a Cindarella story that would be on the front page of all major news sites. I know there's a good number of people here from other countries and whatever, but one thing has to be observed - is it right to expect a dog to not snarl after they've been jerked around a few times and now someone else is trying to tug on the strings? This is an industry issue, and not a personal one. People will feel about it personally, mainly since they're the ones who should be feeling something since they are the ones who are often the victims of dishonesty. This goes for any company, any title.
As for some of the prodding? Dear god, people, take a valium or three and release the o-ring before you turn yourselves inside-out. It's the internet, you can't take shit personally, and that's why some people are gruff to get your attention. Niceness or laxness is ignored and does nothing but bring in idiots. Case in point: SomethingAwful, before they had the forum cost, the forums were often a complete mess. Apparently, this place is expected to be Bambi Land when many other sites have been far worse than all of the Fallout fansites together and THEN SOME. We're in the context of Fallout and game development.
I do like this line, especially when you know of the show - "What is this place? A Fallout forum or the new episode of Neighbours?"
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