The Freemasons

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Can't say I knew that. Have not read any Turgenev.

See, Turgenev is what I'd call overrated...

 

[Brother None]

Dude. No.

The worst we could be accused of is Anglophilia in terms of literature. A LOT of people read Russian and some German literature, however.

THEN EXPLAIN THE LIST! THE HORRIBLE LIST!!!!

o rly?

rly. Remember, I study Russian Literature (as one of my subjects), so allow me to be all snobby here.

Can't say I knew that. Have not read any Turgenev.

You should read Fathers and Sons at least. It's a great piece of prose. DDD might be right in that Turgenev is overrated when it comes to a lot of the rest of his works, but Fathers and Sons is one of the greatest books of all time.

Humph. Interesting. I can see how someone could edit Tolstoy pretty easily to make it seem almost pro-communist (in Anna Karenina especially, as there are real honest to goddness Communist in it).

Yes. Whereas Dostoevskij, especially in Diary of a Writer, is pretty clearly anti-anarchist/communist/socialist.

I am curious Kharn, what is your opinion of Bulgakov? Just finished Master and Margarita.

Bulgakov? I have to admit I haven't read as much of his works as I'd like, but I like what I've read. Haven't read Master and Margarite, it's near the top of my to-read list.

Heart of a Dog is probably one of the most brilliant "pseudo-psycho" books I've ever read. It's a wonderful coloured analogy from beginning to end. To switch topics a little bit, the 1988 movie of Vladimir Bortko* is probably one of the greatest underrated bits of Russian cinema in existence.

I'm not a big fan of Soviet literature, though. Not relatively to older literature, anyway. For instance, I just devoured and loved Lermontov's A Hero of Our Team. 's great.

* Bortko's currently working on a mini based on Master and Margarita. If that book's as good as I've heard, I'll do anything to get my hands on that mini. I'm still looking for his "The Idiot"

 

[John Uskglass]

THEN EXPLAIN THE LIST! THE HORRIBLE LIST!!!!

Ignorance and stupidity are the natural state of humanity, and America lets people be what they want to be.

rly. Remember, I study Russian Literature (as one of my subjects), so allow me to be all snobby here.

In case you are not noticing, I *am* letting you.

You should read Fathers and Sons at least. It's a great piece of prose. DDD might be right in that Turgenev is overrated when it comes to a lot of the rest of his works, but Fathers and Sons is one of the greatest books of all time.

Cool. Don't expect me to get at it for a while, I'm only 250 pages into Anna Karenina, and I'm trying to balance it with half a dozen other books at the same time.

Yes. Whereas Dostoevskij, especially in Diary of a Writer, is pretty clearly anti-anarchist/communist/socialist.

Yes. He reminds me of a more serious, less funny, less crazy G.K. Chesterton in some respects, at least in terms of the political perspective of his novels.

Bulgakov? I have to admit I haven't read as much of his works as I'd like, but I like what I've read. Haven't read Master and Margarite, it's near the top of my to-read list.

It's genius. I wish I knew Russian just so I could read it in the original, but Pevear and Volokhonsky will have to suffice for now (and they do, well).

It's also very literate: there's a lot of refreances to Goethe (some that I got on my own) and a heck of a lot to Pushkin (none of which I got).

And it's funny. And scary. And it influence the best song the Stones ever did.

Heart of a Dog is probably one of the most brilliant "pseudo-psycho" books I've ever read. It's a wonderful coloured analogy from beginning to end. To switch topics a little bit, the 1988 movie of Vladimir Bortko* is probably one of the greatest underrated bits of Russian cinema in existence.

Seen it. And I performed Heart of a Dog when I was 12. I was the doctor.

EDIT: Funny we went from Eco to this, there's a cool referance to Heart in The Mysterious Flame.

I'm not a big fan of Soviet literature, though. Not relatively to older literature, anyway. For instance, I just devoured and loved Lermontov's A Hero of Our Team. 's great.

I don't know much about Soviet literature, and frankly Gorky and friends do not appeal to me. I'm quite a fan of Bulgakov because he was essentially an anticommunist and a deeply closeted conservative on some level.

EDIT: Also read WE some years ago.

Also, I should add, Master and Margarita has vodka drinking, massive, talking black cats that decapitate people, so it's one of the best books I have ever read.

 

[Montez]

What are your opinions of Solzhenitsyn? I've been meaning to read some books by him for years but have always managed to put it off.

 

[John Uskglass]

What are your opinions of Solzhenitsyn? I've been meaning to read some books by him for years but have always managed to put it off.

IIRC he does not have that many good English translations. Tarkovsky's movie is a must though.

 

[Brother None]

Ignorance and stupidity are the natural state of humanity, and America lets people be what they want to be.

That's such a beautiful sentiment.

The USA, allowing people to be dumb.

In case you are not noticing, I *am* letting you.

Awww, I didn't know you cared.

into Anna Karenina, and I'm trying to balance it with half a dozen other books at the same time.

I'd advise strongle against reading Russian books, especially Tolstoj and Dostoevskij, coupled with other books. It works with English books, but those Russians have a rather large tendency to throw characters and details at your head and expecting you to retain them for 200 pages.

Unless you have a phenomenal memory, it doesn't work.

Yes. He reminds me of a more serious, less funny, less crazy G.K. Chesterton in some respects, at least in terms of the political perspective of his novels.

I bet everyone reminds you of Chesterton somehow.

(homo)

It's genius. I wish I knew Russian just so I could read it in the original, but Pevear and Volokhonsky will have to suffice for now (and they do, well).

It's also very literate: there's a lot of refreances to Goethe (some that I got on my own) and a heck of a lot to Pushkin (none of which I got).

And it's funny. And scary. And it influence the best song the Stones ever did.

I will read it.

Which song?

Seen it. And I performed Heart of a Dog when I was 12. I was the doctor.

Yeah, uh-huh, sure, the dog. I bet you were the dog. Before he transformed.

I don't know much about Soviet literature, and frankly Gorky and friends do not appeal to me. I'm quite a fan of Bulgakov because he was essentially an anticommunist and a deeply closeted conservative on some level.

Reading or not reading people on their political sentiments is lighty silly.

EDIT: Also read WE some years ago.

Read what now? "We"? Is that some kind of glossy?

Also, I should add, Master and Margarita has vodka drinking, massive, talking black cats that decapitate people, so it's one of the best books I have ever read.

I love it when Russians write in the same way as they talk when drunk. Gogol''s "The Nose" is a prime example of this.

What are your opinions of Solzhenitsyn? I've been meaning to read some books by him for years but have always managed to put it off.

This is not just true of Solzhenitsyn. Most Russian works tend to translate badly, and vice versa it true too. Russia's rather unique verb-system and sentence structures do not translate well to Western European languages. French is probably the best language to translate to and quite frankly French translations of Solzhenitsyn are the only ones I ever heard good things about.

Solzhenitsyn is good. I wouldn't recommend him too strongly, but lots of people really love him, so who am I?

 

[John Uskglass]

The USA, allowing people to be dumb.

Damn right.

Awww, I didn't know you cared.

Awh, I love you my little Russophile creame cake.

Unless you have a phenomenal memory, it doesn't work.

I have a very good memory.

I bet everyone reminds you of Chesterton somehow.

Everyone I like.

Honestly though, especially the Cross and the Ball has quite a bit in common thematically with Dostoyevsky. They both predict totalitariansim, and they both rock.

I will read it.

Which song?

Sympathy for the Devil. Great song. The first few lines are from Master and Margarita, IIRC.

Yeah, uh-huh, sure, the dog. I bet you were the dog. Before he transformed.

No, we had a Ukranian do that.

Reading or not reading people on their political sentiments is lighty silly.

I have a hard time reading Gorky, Ayn Rand, D.H. Lawergay or anyone else in that vein because I think at a base level their books do no good.

Read what now? "We"? Is that some kind of glossy?

Eugene Zamyatin's WE.

 

[Wooz]

No, we had a Ukranian do that.

Hear, hear. CCR's so desperate trying to find a dumber nation that he has to turn to ex-Soviet nation-states to succeed.

No, wait. Isn't Ukraine the country in which the political opposition and massive street protests demoted a Kremlin puppet last year?

Speaking of the Kremlin.

It looks like a candy shop in Gotham City.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

I love it when Russians write in the same way as they talk when drunk. Gogol''s "The Nose" is a prime example of this.

Hehehe, I love Gogol, in fact I think I like him the most from the aforementioned bunch...

Master and Margarite is also a great book.

On a somewhat related tangent I recomend reading Roger Zelazny's Millennium Contest thrilogy... Brilliant.

 

[welsh]

Dude. No.

The worst we could be accused of is Anglophilia in terms of literature. A LOT of people read Russian and some German literature, however.

THEN EXPLAIN THE LIST! THE HORRIBLE LIST!!!!

To be fair, my Russofile-Yankee bashing friend, the EVIL LIST probably comes from a publisher trying to push its own works, and probably just concentrated on more popular reads.

The Montana List is probably more representive, as Montana is probably a fairly average state university-

http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/univ/msu100.html

Still looking for a better list.