The good aspects to Fallout 3?

[Ediros]

I've never really understood the hate for the T-45. I understand NMA hating it for what it represents, sure, but you are correct, it is supposed to be a dead-end model and fairly obsolete. It looked fine to me, not great but that was kind of the point. A prototype for the big hulking excellence of the T-51.

Then Bethesda went and announced the T-60 and it all went to hell again. Why couldn't they just call it the goddamn T-49? It had the size of the T-51 and similar proportions, and was progressing slowly from the T-45 into something better. It would've made a thousand times more sense.

I wouldn't mind that, like keep T-51b top tier pre-war power armour, but make t-49 much more resistant against bullets and such on par with t-51b. However, it would be weaker to energy based attacks, that would work just fine.

However, they went with T-60, which breaks the lore on so many levels. A pre-war power armour that is better in every aspect to t-51b and took only a year to complete. Who the hell thought it was a good idea? It also is better in every aspect than t-51b, appeared out of nowhere (and entire brotherhood now wears it) and looks like a modified t-45. Talk about lazy.

I also agree with you on t-45. Sure, it represents Fallout 3, which was a bad Fallout game. However, I think is overall a good addition to the canon (one of the few). Now, I will be waiting for mods, that will get rid of those damn fusion cores that make absolutely no sense.

 

[Chromevod]

Probably would have fit in the lore fine if the T-60 was armor made by the Brotherhood, starting as modified T-45 armor with pieces of Enclave armor that iterated enough they felt it deserved it's own number. Over the course of a decade they phased out unmodified T-45 suits in favor of fielding only their superior T-60.

Boom, T-51b remains the pinnacle of Pre-War power armor technology, and Bethesda still gets to update their own power armor look in a lore-friendly manner.

 

[Big No]

Speaking of T-60, anybody find it strange that there are an abundance of T-60 PA's around the Commonwealth even though they were developed literally right before the war? I'm at level 79 and I've only come across two sets of T-51b armor ever. T-60 on the other hand, I own at least seven of them. If anything, T-51b should be more common.

 

[NotAcasul]

Speaking of T-60, anybody find it strange that there are an abundance of T-60 PA's around the Commonwealth even though they were developed literally right before the war? I'm at level 79 and I've only come across two sets of T-51b armor ever. T-60 on the other hand, I own at least seven of them. If anything, T-51b should be more common.

The head-canon I have to help me sleep at night is that the T-60 edition of power-armor was created by C.I.T as a prototype for the military. This shit happened like, two days before October 23rd so the T-60 could only be supplied to the nearby military.

Speaking of T-60, the jet-pack that is new and some people don't like it because it's new and never-before-seen was also made by C.I.T. Since we're believing anything I say right now, the new jet-pack was a prototype that never really made it into mass production. The schematics are still solid, though. They work enough to get you off the ground.

This just stuff is based off jack-shit, I just made this up to help me not explode.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

The head-canon I have to help me sleep at night is that the T-60 edition of power-armor was created by C.I.T as a prototype for the military. This shit happened like, two days before October 23rd so the T-60 could only be supplied to the nearby military.

Speaking of T-60, the jet-pack that is new and some people don't like it because it's new and never-before-seen was also made by C.I.T. Since we're believing anything I say right now, the new jet-pack was a prototype that never really made it into mass production. The schematics are still solid, though. They work enough to get you off the ground.

This just stuff is based off jack-shit, I just made this up to help me not explode.

That's just Bethesda for ya, breaking canon as they always do.

 

[Hassknecht]

Speaking of T-60, anybody find it strange that there are an abundance of T-60 PA's around the Commonwealth even though they were developed literally right before the war? I'm at level 79 and I've only come across two sets of T-51b armor ever. T-60 on the other hand, I own at least seven of them. If anything, T-51b should be more common.

That's levelled spawn lists for ya. The window where you're most likely to get T-51 instead of T-45 or T-60 is relatively small.

 

[NotAcasul]

That's just Bethesda for ya, breaking canon as they always do.

It's not that that bugs me. If they actually did break the canon, I could just throw their opinion away. They just never fucking explain ANYTHING. All I want is one god damn paragraph during the loading screens.

 

[Black Angel]

Hi. New guy here. Been lurking for a month, and then made an account sometime ago to download a mod for Tactics. Alright, enough for introduction.

The good aspect to Fallout 3, that I felt Bethesda managed to do right, is the equipment degradation/durability system. This gave more use to Repair skill. Since I started the franchise from Fallout 3, I was honestly surprised when I found out that the original Fallout(s) doesn't have any equipment durability system. To be honest, my first cRPG ever(!) was Underrail, the game that actually kicked me out of my comfort zone to finally try the original Fallout(s) (since I was kind of afraid I might not like them because they look dated), and Underrail has equipment durability system.

I feel like this is one of the things Bethesda did right when they made their first Fallout game. I even feel like the original creators kind of nod in agreement with equipment durability system that they added a 'threshold' for an equipment to be maintained, before needing actual repair (75% for weapons, 50% for armors) to give the system more depth.

and then Bethesda just threw it out of window in Fallout 4. I was excited when they show weapon parts in one of their trailers, as it gave an impression that those are going to play lots of role in repairing equipment. Very disappointing.

 

[AccountNameM]

Hi. New guy here. Been lurking for a month, and then made an account sometime ago to download a mod for Tactics. Alright, enough for introduction.

The good aspect to Fallout 3, that I felt Bethesda managed to do right, is the equipment degradation/durability system. This gave more use to Repair skill. Since I started the franchise from Fallout 3, I was honestly surprised when I found out that the original Fallout(s) doesn't have any equipment durability system. To be honest, my first cRPG ever(!) was Underrail, the game that actually kicked me out of my comfort zone to finally try the original Fallout(s) (since I was kind of afraid I might not like them because they look dated), and Underrail has equipment durability system.

I feel like this is one of the things Bethesda did right when they made their first Fallout game. I even feel like the original creators kind of nod in agreement with equipment durability system that they added a 'threshold' for an equipment to be maintained, before needing actual repair (75% for weapons, 50% for armors) to give the system more depth.

and then Bethesda just threw it out of window in Fallout 4. I was excited when they show weapon parts in one of their trailers, as it gave an impression that those are going to play lots of role in repairing equipment. Very disappointing.

FO3 did a lot of things right, but weapon repair was just a tad bit tedious. I really just wanted to kill shit without worrying about some useless mechanic that didn't really do much.

 

[Black Angel]

FO3 did a lot of things right, but weapon repair was just a tad bit tedious. I really just wanted to kill shit without worrying about some useless mechanic that didn't really do much.

See, this is why we can't have nice things. I knew you were bored and all, but there are people out there legit thinks like you. They just want to shoot shit up, and anything that disrupt them in doing it would be deemed 'tedious'.

I'm a huge Souls fans, and among there community there has been many debate on whether or not the durability system in the Soulsborne games are 'tedious'. If only they realized and pay attention to a dialogue from Andre of Astora, they would just stop and actually appreciate the durability system:

Spoiler

Most weapons and armor are mighty sturdy indeed. But every hunk of metal has its breaking point. If you notice durability running low, it's time to repair. You can ask a blacksmith like meself, or do it on your own with a grindstone. The nice thing about weapons...they never betray you. So pay them a little respect, eh?

Since you said FO3 did 'a lot of things right', why not elaborate, eh?

 

[AccountNameM]

See, this is why we can't have nice things. I knew you were bored and all, but there are people out there legit thinks like you. They just want to shoot shit up, and anything that disrupt them in doing it would be deemed 'tedious'.

I'm a huge Souls fans, and among there community there has been many debate on whether or not the durability system in the Soulsborne games are 'tedious'. If only they realized and pay attention to a dialogue from Andre of Astora, they would just stop and actually appreciate the durability system:

Spoiler

Most weapons and armor are mighty sturdy indeed. But every hunk of metal has its breaking point. If you notice durability running low, it's time to repair. You can ask a blacksmith like meself, or do it on your own with a grindstone. The nice thing about weapons...they never betray you. So pay them a little respect, eh?

Since you said FO3 did 'a lot of things right', why not elaborate, eh?

To me, the weapon repair affected the gameplay in a negative way, adding another level of responsibility that serves no purpose but to be realistic, or for some other reason.

Also. what are you referring to when you say "This is why we can't have nice things ... there are people who legit think like you"? It's just my opinion, no need for that.

EDIT: Forgot to add this:
* Quests and shit were good.
* Storytelling was pretty good.
* I found the game fun and enjoyed it.

 

[Spacemunkey]

To me, the weapon repair affected the gameplay in a negative way, adding another level of responsibility that serves no purpose but to be realistic, or for some other reason.

The implementation was shit, but it was a good idea that was scrapped instead worked on. There was really no level of detail like breaking down weapons into parts that could repair other various weapons or even build new ones.The gunsmithing mod for FNV, while it goes a little overboard in some aspects, it shows a good framework at what this type of game mechanic should be.

 

[Black Angel]

To me, the weapon repair affected the gameplay in a negative way, adding another level of responsibility that serves no purpose but to be realistic, or for some other reason.

Also. what are you referring to when you say "This is why we can't have nice things ... there are people who legit think like you"? It's just my opinion, no need for that.

EDIT: Forgot to add this:
* Quests and shit were good.
* Storytelling was pretty good.
* I found the game fun and enjoyed it.

So you basically agreed with Pete Hines when he said, "not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls". Okay, cool.

On a more serious note, I think repairing equipment add a lot of depth to the gameplay. If you actually read that dialogue I quoted from Andre of Astora, you will understand what I mean. They might aim for realism, but Andre's dialogue touched my heart and I actually cared to maintain my own weapons. But, hey! That's just me. You wanna play Fallout games for the shooting? Go for it! If you ask me, I don't play a Fallout game for the shooting

Also, those lines about "This is why we can't have nice things..." are me referring to the fact that you are bored and made all those threads to ask a question that has been asked a gazillion times in this site. But, yeah, kind of irrelevant. Just say it was kind of my split-second reaction when I saw your name and read your reply.

Anyway, good for you if you think quests, storytelling, and overall Fallout 3 is fun. I personally disagree when you said that quests, shit, and storytelling are good in Fallout 3, but I respect your taste.

The implementation was shit, but it was a good idea that was scrapped instead worked on. There was really no level of detail like breaking down weapons into parts that could repair other various weapons or even build new ones.The gunsmithing mod for FNV, while it goes a little overboard in some aspects, it shows a good framework at what this type of game mechanic should be.

See, this guy gets it. In 3, it was implemented poorly. New Vegas took it a level up with adding a threshold, and give Jury Rigging perk to make it easier, but still needed some work so it's not tedious for people who just want to shoot people in the face. The mod that allows you to break weapons into parts, I thought Bethesda were going to use it for Fallout 4 when I saw weapon parts in one of their trailers. Disappointing, disappointing....

 

[AccountNameM]

So you basically agreed with Pete Hines when he said, "not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls". Okay, cool.

On a more serious note, I think repairing equipment add a lot of depth to the gameplay. If you actually read that dialogue I quoted from Andre of Astora, you will understand what I mean. They might aim for realism, but Andre's dialogue touched my heart and I actually cared to maintain my own weapons. But, hey! That's just me. You wanna play Fallout games for the shooting? Go for it! If you ask me, I don't play a Fallout game for the shooting

Also, those lines about "This is why we can't have nice things..." are me referring to the fact that you are bored and made all those threads to ask a question that has been asked a gazillion times in this site. But, yeah, kind of irrelevant. Just say it was kind of my split-second reaction when I saw your name and read your reply.

Anyway, good for you if you think quests, storytelling, and overall Fallout 3 is fun. I personally disagree when you said that quests, shit, and storytelling are good in Fallout 3, but I respect your taste.

So someone has been following me from the shadows, hmm.

I play Fallout because I enjoy its type of storytelling a setting, not just because I like shoot things.

 

[Black Angel]

So someone has been following me from the shadows, hmm.

I play Fallout because I enjoy its type of storytelling a setting, not just because I like shoot things.

And I see that equipment durability system is a nice addition that only need some more work and tweak to be a one of a good feature of a Fallout game! Let's say you want to roleplay with a shooty-shooty bang-bang playstyle. You made a specific build for that, and are going to use it when you approach this specific quest. But because you forgot to repair your weapon, it breaks so easily when you tried to pull the trigger repeatedly to finish off some enemies. And then you ends up dead because it was the only weapon you currently have (unlikely, tho, since you probably are going to take some more weapons with you).

The game's mistake because it has a weapon degradation system? Nope. Your fault for not paying attention to your weapon's current condition.

Oh, and I'm not following you from the shadows. I've been lurking this site for a month, and it coincide with you making an account and posting many thread because you were 'bored'.

 

[AccountNameM]

And I see that equipment durability system is a nice addition that only need some more work and tweak to be a one of a good feature of a Fallout game! Let's say you want to roleplay with a shooty-shooty bang-bang playstyle. You made a specific build for that, and are going to use it when you approach this specific quest. But because you forgot to repair your weapon, it breaks so easily when you tried to pull the trigger repeatedly to finish off some enemies. And then you ends up dead because it was the only weapon you current have (unlikely, tho, since you probably are going to take some more weapons with you).

The game's mistake because it has a weapon degradation system? Nope. Your fault for not paying attention to your weapon's current condition.

Oh, and I'm not following you from the shadows. I've been lurking this site for a month, and it coincide with you making an account and posting many thread because you were 'bored'.

You're sounding a little pretentious, but you can't always tell through text.

 

[Black Angel]

You're sounding a little pretentious, but you can't always tell through text.

Seriously? All that elaboration I can give, all that example, and all you can reply to that is telling me that I sound pretentious? To be honest, I'm not a native-english speak, so there's that.

 

[AccountNameM]

Seriously? All that elaboration I can give, all that example, and all you can reply to that is telling me that I sound pretentious? To be honest, I'm not a native-english speak, so there's that.

The problem is, the tone I'm getting from your replies is "I know Fallout better than you", evident by "..shooty-shooty bang-bang" and "So you basically agreed with Pete Hines when he said, "not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls". Okay, cool".

I feel your being a bit pretentious, and don't understand that what makes a Fallout game a Fallout game is highly ambiguous.

 

[Brivoo]

The repair system in Fallout 3 is absolutely retarded; I'd much rather have no degradation system than repeating that horrible mess.

The fact that every weapon could only be repaired with more of that weapon was ridiculous; it didn't make me more attentive to the condition of my weapon, it just forced me to lug around ten identical rifles to keep my unique in top condition. That isn't "realistic", it's obtuse and an artificial addition to difficulty.

Even New Vegas, NMA's Messiah reincarnate, could only improve the system in a minor way; weapon repair kits are universal and made the repair skill more than a dump skill, but they are expensive and not all that widely available; jury-rigging is a cool perk but it requires 90 repair and simply highlights a glaring flaw in the repair system itself (that being that cross-weapon repairing, be it either through scrapping or switching components, should be intrinsic to a degradation system).

All of that also applies to the clothing and armor condition system, of course.

To actually talk about something else I liked about Fallout 3, I liked Liberty Prime. I thought it was silly and kind of nonsensical in terms of a superweapon, but it felt pretty epic walking towards Project Purity with it, destroying vertibirds and troops in the process. Of course, it makes a return in Fallout 4 with little to no explanation, marking its status as a tired Bethesdian plot device much like the BoS itself.

 

[Black Angel]

The problem is, the tone I'm getting from your replies is "I know Fallout better than you", evident by "..shooty-shooty bang-bang" and "So you basically agreed with Pete Hines when he said, "not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls". Okay, cool".

I feel your being a bit pretentious, and don't understand that what makes a Fallout game a Fallout game is highly ambiguous.

Ah, but actually what makes a Fallout game a Fallout game was already decided ever since the days of Fallout 1 and 2. http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/...real-fallout-game-to-you.205313/#post-4137325

Also, there's this video

Spoiler

In which he said,

Spoiler

Before Fallout became it's own distinct franchise, it was supposed to be a post-apocalyptic game based on Steve Jackson's PnP ruleset G.U.R.P.S[1]. This game had five key tenets and this is part of what I will focus on when I make statements like “Bethesda will never create a good Fallout game”;

1. Rule #1: Multiple Decisions. We will always allow for multiple solutions to any obstacle.
2. Rule #2: No Useless Skills. The skills we allow you to take will have meaning in the game.
3. Rule #3: Dark humor was good. Slap-stick was not.
4. Rule #4: Let the player play how he wants to play.
5. Rule #5: Your actions have repercussions.

If instead of focusing on giving counter-argument to my argument, you can only think I'm 'saying', "I knew Fallout better than you!", might as well not reply to me at all. Look at what we've done, we derailed the thread because, instead of focusing on whether or not weapon degradation system is a good aspect of Fallout 3, you called me pretentious.

Oh, and what you refer as to 'highly ambiguous', I think you are referring to 'What makes an RPG'. What makes a Fallout game was already decided ever since the days of Fallout 1 and 2. Period.

The repair system in Fallout 3 is absolutely retarded; I'd much rather have no degradation system than repeating that horrible mess.

The fact that every weapon could only be repaired with more of that weapon was ridiculous; it didn't make me more attentive to the condition of my weapon, it just forced me to lug around ten identical rifles to keep my unique in top condition. That isn't "realistic", it's obtuse and an artificial addition to difficulty.

Even New Vegas, NMA's Messiah reincarnate, could only improve the system in a minor way; weapon repair kits are universal and made the repair skill more than a dump skill, but they are expensive and not all that widely available; jury-rigging is a cool perk but it requires 90 repair and simply highlights a glaring flaw in the repair system itself (that being that cross-weapon repairing, be it either through scrapping or switching components, should be intrinsic to a degradation system).

All of that also applies to the clothing and armor condition system, of course.

But it was a good idea! New Vegas took it a step further, but it still needed some more work. The mod that allows us to break weapons into parts, now that's a real deal to make a degradation system better! It was an extremely wasted potential in Fallout 4, since that game now have a working crafting system involving weapon parts, that can also be used to repair other weapons. Some people will argue that the reason why we don't have to repair weapons in Fallout 4 because Skills are gone, but that just show how much of a train-wreck of wasted potential that is Fallout 4.

Anyway, I can kinda understand why they made Jury Rigging requires 90 points in Repair skills. It was..... kinda OP. I never leave a gunfight with less than 100% weapon condition. A really fitting perk for Repair, imo.