The Master/Unity was the Fallout universe’s best hope

ElloinmorninJ

ElloinmorninJ

Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
As I have replayed F1, I’ve been looking at the game’s world in a new light: And I’ve realized something. The PC, the Vault Dweller, is making a terrible mistake; the Master is Earth’s best choice.

Think about it. Where do we live in Fallout’s world? A desolate, irradiated Wasteland, caused directly by the folly of mankind. And even in this desolate world, humans still clash, humans still fight, humans still hate eachother for their differences. Nothing has changed.

The Master would have unified humanity, made it able to survive the new world, he was going to uplift civilization. Richard should not have let the VD convince him to end his plan with the “evidence” that Super Mutants can’t breed. There we’re solutions!

Short term, he could’ve enacted this plan- Use the Vaults as breeding stock pens, creating pure humans who could either be dipped, or kept in the Vaults to continue the cycle.

Long term, just edit the FEV- It’s a virus, it’s genes could be reprogrammed to not effect sex cells so negatively. He’d have literally an infinite lifespan to do research, and he’s a genius, so there wouldn’t be any problem.

All in all, that’s my opinion. I’m up for debate, so if you guys see any flaws in my reasoning, point it out- I may, reconsider. Reconsider. Reconsider, Reconsider.
 
I mean, that is part of the appeal of the game. Not to mention that the PC can choose to do exactly what you say he/she should- and join the Master and his Unity.

Of course, the debate goes as to whether the Master is right. And if he is so, whether the plan he enacts is worth the end result. That is down to the PC to choose their own reasoning if they decide to stop him.

As for the ethical debate, and assuming people roleplay as themselves, there is obviously the appeal if one holds to the fact that the transformation to a Super Mutant would be worth it, especially with the hardships involved with editing the FEV to remove the current downsides. Not the mention the fact that though the man is a genius, there is no guarantee that there is a solution to the problem.

Not to mention the fact that the Master is not merely waiting for his plan to work, he is actively killing those that oppose him, and dipping others against their will. Lot of bad means to justify that end.

End of the day, its like any utopian vision- you gotta break the eggs. If the eggs are worth breaking according to you then fine. If you think Utopia is not possible on Earth, then you are not gonna be comfortable with those forcing their vision of it or others or to sanction the means of making it possible. Same thing with FNV's factions for example, or the Enclave.
 
The wrench in that particular work is that whilst Super Mutants may have been the superior race, The Unity also involved the ablation of political difference through shared subservience to the Master thanks to cult indoctrination.

No thanks.
 
I think the Master's plans were lunacy even without the sterilization because humanity was rebuilding just fine. That was the point of the game.
 
TheOtherManInTheRoom said:
...assuming people roleplay as themselves...
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Sadly all too often true. :(
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The problem with Richard Grey is that his mind was no longer even human—or sane. His mad plan was to save humanity at the cost of being human. His remorse at the end could have been heart-felt or part of a delusion, or even discarded at whim; the PC got lucky in dealing with a madman.

The Unity's utopianism could have turned the remains of humanity into a simian ant farm under the rule of a schizophrenic cyborg. That's no way to exist.
 
Yeah, regardless of whether the Supers were the master race or not, The Master himself was twisted in both body and mind. He wasn't a suitable leader and was clearly absolutley mad. Whilst his goals had utilitarianism as a sort of basis, it had turned into something far more evil by the time of the Vault Dweller's adventures.
 
Gizmojunk said:
Sadly all too often true. :(
_____

The problem with Richard Grey is that his mind was no longer even human—or sane. His mad plan was to save humanity at the cost of being human. His remorse at the end could have been heart-felt or part of a delusion, or even discarded at whim; the PC got lucky in dealing with a madman.

The Unity's utopianism could have turned the remains of humanity into a simian ant farm under the rule of a schizophrenic cyborg. That's no way to exist.
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Buttttt, to be fair, it’s a debate between lesser evils. The Fallout world’s humans are almost guaranteed to do another nuclear war.
 
ElloinmorninJ said:
Buttttt, to be fair, it’s a debate between lesser evils. The Fallout world’s humans are almost guaranteed to do another nuclear war.
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1. That would require them rebuilding the world enough to do so. Its entirely possible that's not going to happen. With Fallout 2 as the last "official" game, humanity's future seems to be a sustainable eco-friendly tribal culture as seen with New Arryo. The United States Remnant is destroyed and with it the last of the Old World.

2. The Master would have to win first and as we see, people are willing to use nukles against him first. So it's an ideology based on, "Well if I kill everyone who opposes me, we'll have peace."
 
CT Phipps said:
1. That would require them rebuilding the world enough to do so. Its entirely possible that's not going to happen. With Fallout 2 as the last "official" game, humanity's future seems to be a sustainable eco-friendly tribal culture as seen with New Arryo. The United States Remnant is destroyed and with it the last of the Old World.
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The Shi believe that they can achieve space travel in the near future. This is also in FO2. If they can do it, they will surpass the old word in relation to space travel and exploration.
The Hubologists want to achieve space travel so they can travel to Quetzel.

Also Van Buren would have the player go to the space station B.O.M.B.-001. And it's well known (even Avelone confirmed it) that Tim Cain wanted to stir Fallout into space travel/exploration.

Even Mr House in Fallout New Vegas wants to achieve Space Travel.

So I don't think Fallout humanity's future is a sustainable eco-friendly tribal culture. More like a Space Traveling humanity.
 
Hmmm, okay I think you guys have changed my opinion. I was thinking of the Master as using force to correct humanity, but I realize that that isn’t a moral thing to do, even for a greater good.
 
Besides the fact that what he proposes is impossible - the whole sterility thing - there's no feasible way he could prolong the Mutant race. While it's not said exactly how much FEV-2 was stored at Mariposa, the Master only has a limited supply of it. Discounting the other sources (that is to say, disregarding 3 and 4), he has the world's sole supply of the virus and no way to reproduce it. Once that's gone, it's gone.

The best hope for the Fallout universe was the Enclave, and some jerk-off tribal ruined everything. :cry:
 
Black Prince said:
Besides the fact that what he proposes is impossible - the whole sterility thing - there's no feasible way he could prolong the Mutant race. While it's not said exactly how much FEV-2 was stored at Mariposa, the Master only has a limited supply of it. Discounting the other sources (that is to say, disregarding 3 and 4), he has the world's sole supply of the virus and no way to reproduce it. Once that's gone, it's gone.

The best hope for the Fallout universe was the Enclave, and some jerk-off tribal ruined everything. :cry:
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What do you mean? How would he run out of FEV? FEV is a virus, a living organism; surely it reproduces, he could just make more of it
 
Viruses need cells in order to reproduce.
Once all the FEV in the vats was used up, where was the unity suppose to get more pure FEV from?
Extract it from Super Mutants? It is already mixed with the host's human DNA.

No if Super Mutants can not reproduce naturally there would be no future for them.
Even if you did the approach of having some humans around to have children and turn only a handful of those in Super Mutants while the others are allowed to grow up and have more children.

It would also create a new classes hierarchy with the Super Mutants on top and regular humans only being around because Super Mutants need human children to turn into more Super Mutants.
That doesn't sound very utopian to me.
 
ElloinmorninJ said:
Hmmm, okay I think you guys have changed my opinion. I was thinking of the Master as using force to correct humanity, but I realize that that isn’t a moral thing to do, even for a greater good.
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The big issue is the Master is trying to make a perfect humanity but are Super Mutants really any better even while mind controlled?

The Dutch Ghost said:
It would also create a new classes hierarchy with the Super Mutants on top and regular humans only being around because Super Mutants need human children to turn into more Super Mutants.

That doesn't sound very utopian to me.
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Oddly, as stupid as Little Lamplight is [even I admit it], that is literally what's going on in F3. The Super Mutants protect the children until they become adults and get harvested.
 
CT Phipps said:
The big issue is the Master is trying to make a perfect humanity but are Super Mutants really any better even while mind controlled?



Oddly, as stupid as Little Lamplight is [even I admit it], that is literally what's going on in F3. The Super Mutants protect the children until they become adults and get harvested.
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Is that actually implied in Fallout 3? It makes sense, but none of the super mutants seem smart enough to come up with a plan like that (except Fawkes and Uncle Leo, who are explicitly not affiliated with the rest of the DC horde)
 
Iprovidelittlepianos said:
Is that actually implied in Fallout 3? It makes sense, but none of the super mutants seem smart enough to come up with a plan like that (except Fawkes and Uncle Leo, who are explicitly not affiliated with the rest of the DC horde)
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Well the Super Mutant Base is behind Little Lamplight and they are harvesting the adults to turn into Super Mutants at Big Town (that part is confirmed). Also, if you sneak around the Super Mutant base, they discuss the fact that they're running out of FEV.

So they're not as dumb as they appear.
 
As far as the West-Tek logs go, for FEV, the un-mutated virus improves intelligence, strength, and agility.
FEV_LOG_compressed_256.png
 
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