The Perfect Fallout...

No doubt.

Leaps worse than say, all in one game: Bible quotes, vampires, elves with CETME rifles, giant robots and nuclear slingshots.

And it's Mormons. Not Mormon's. "Mormon's" could be the name of a fast food chain in Utah, not the plural of <s> a completely batshit religious sect</s> "Mormon".
 
Pardon me. I didn't know this forum was under the jurisdiction of the grammar police and the typo investigation unit. :roll:

And no, I will not get trolled into a 'Fallout 3 sucks' crapfest, sorry to disappoint.
 
alec said:
Totally. NMA put a vid of the techdemo on YouTube and added a nice song to it which makes me wanna burst into tears even more.

{Van Buren techdemo video}
Yeah, that's beautiful. I downloaded this video once it was released, and have been watching it once a week ever since. I don't know why I torture myself like this. :roll:

alec said:
But yeah: that Troika engine demo had the perfect atmosphere as well, in a totally different way (Van Buren - Troika post-apoc demo).
I would have loved to see both, actually.

{Troika engine demo video}
But this one I had not seen yet. Was Troika using this engine in some project?

BTW, whose is that song in this Van Buren video?
 
Iceman346 said:
Stg Granite said:
But this one I had not seen yet. Was Troika using this engine in some project?

Nope, it was a demo they created shortly before going dead.

Thats damn sad, to bad we dont have enough money to buy it hehehe.

There are only a couple of post-ap games coming in the near future. Maybe Fallout 3 will trigger some chainraction.

Damn i dont wanna bash Fallout 3 to the ground. But first person doesn't work in this setting i guess...well at least not when it feels so small.
 
In my opinion, the perfect new fallout game would be the story, setting, and depth.

First person perspective? I don't care. I really don't. I want the stats to count and leave in the RPG elements, don't get me wrong, but I don't care about perspective.

What I DO care about, more than anything else, is the depth of dialogue, characters, and items. I don't just want to pick up a gun and use it, I want to have a little blurb behind the item, possibly with some humor added to it. I want there to be history to it.

I want a setting that looks like it's living amongst the corpse of the past, rebuilt out of it, and yet is still ongoing, still developing. A sort of a Frankenstein's Monster of the future.

That would be perfection to the utmost. And I honestly think that a lot more Fallout fans would be more forgiving of Fallout 3 if it had the above.
 
Beautiful response Lonewulf:) Actually someone has done a mod to add item descriptions, with pictures:D
 
If Black Isle or Interplay made fallout 3. Original Creators included. Would the victory have been massive?
 
Perfect Fallout? Van Buren came closest; that Troika PA tech demo wasn't too shabby either (*understatement*). Yes, the graphics would need an update, but that's true of any project that's carried through several years.

More off topic: The song in the Troika PA demo is from the Dune soundtrack (it's one of the tracks that didn't make it onto the original soundtrack, "Prophecy," I think?) but I don't know what the Van Buren song is.
 
Continuum said:
Troika's PA tech demo is looking very impressive. It's a damn shame that they went under before finishing this game :( Even damn music in tech demo is much more better than this orchestral crap from Fallout 3.

Anyway, PA RPGs have no luck... Troika's PA title, The Fall - Last Days of Gaia and now Fallout 3... It's damn unfair :?

Actually this is the one mod I'm interested in using. If I install F3 tommorrow and find a Music folder I will want to place my own tracks in it, but if that would not work or if it would screw the game up so that a true mod is needed then that is what I'd want. A mod that allows me to place music tracks that I want to hear in the game.


--------------------------

I agree I loved the Troika demo. Great graphics and I loved how I could move from isometric to 3-D.

I didn't care so much for the Van Buren. I did like it, but I loved the Troika more.

Also what is the obsession over loving turned-based combat? I play Table-top minature games and for that its great and a necessary part of TTG's but in a computer game I don't see why we can't have a combat system like I think would be in the Trioka demo? Why have turn based if you don't have to.

I suppose the thing that bugged me the most about the AP based turn combat was the fact that once I shot a couple times and used up 8 of my 10 AP and had 2 left until I clicked Done or Closed or Finished or whatever the button that ends the turn it would just sit there. True I have the option to move a couple hexes but seriously.

It should give me the option to 'quick combat' that if you only have 1 or 2 AP left the turn ends, and if you don't want to you turn that option off and you literally must spend every single AP like the default I found in Fallout 2. This way it gives us a choice if we want to play quicker combats or not.

Had fallout 2 had that option I'd have enjoyed it more but I did in fact love that game like most of you, but seeing a demo like that Troika that has amazingly cool post-apoc style and graphics truth be told had Fallout 2 looked and felt like that, and not had such a turnbased combat or had a fast-turn option for that combat I'd have loved it even more.



Is that possible you think?
 
Also what is the obsession over loving turned-based combat?
Well, personally, I like to be able to take my time and assess the situation, which works perfectly in turn based. Carefully spending each and every action point efficiently is fun and challenging.
once I shot a couple times and used up 8 of my 10 AP and had 2 left until I clicked Done or Closed or Finished or whatever the button that ends the turn it would just sit there. True I have the option to move a couple hexes but seriously.
The leftover action points are added to your armor class, which makes you harder to hit. While the game does not show this, your character is actually dodging gunfire and throwing him/her self on the ground. With newer technology, this can be accomplished, but it was not really necessary.
It should give me the option to 'quick combat' that if you only have 1 or 2 AP left the turn ends
But what about reloading, oh noes! Thinking about all of the times I needed one or two action points, there are a whole bunch of things. Stepping into cover one hex a way, for example. Reloading a .44 with fast reload is only one ap.
 
MrCaleb said:
Just maybe a short and simple question.

Now that Fallout 3 is here, and some are happy, some are sad...and some are ready to jump off a building.

I was wondering what your perfect fallout actually looks like? Should it be 3D (First person) ? Should it be like the old fallouts? Maybe with better graphics, highres textures etc?

I think Fallout 3 just doesn't have the feeling i was hoping for, its feels crammed up, small. No right atmosphere.

Perhaps i would have rather seen large area's with exit grids in 3D (1st person) then just a lumpy area that feels way to small to be a part of america.

Just wondering for thoughts, perhaps even a good way to brainstorm for mods. :ok:



Fallout 3 mods and/or Fallout 4 wishes


Superficial stuff:
- improved AI-path finding, fix bugs, improved animations, improved acting


Important stuff:

- SDK
- more dialogs/options/choices with appropriate consequences
- more conflicting factions/intrigue (Gothic 3)
- kill-able NPCs( like children)
- destroyable environments (Guerilla, Bad company)
- vehicles
- post-apocalyptic track 50s style (dirt and/or wood/hybrid) where to race some vehicles
- cover system
- shield NPC mode ( Crysis/Warhead, Saints Row, GoW2)
- prone and climb options
- squad management (like in Mass Effect PC and/or BoA)
- an advanced map system
- an advanced karma system
- an advanced ending-main quest system
- an advanced VATS system (APs, min-max possible damage)
- weapon-combat-targeting system with jamming-overheating, upgrades and different ammo types (Mass Effect, Crysis/Warhead, Far Cry 2, STALKER)


Hell no stuff:
- no TBS stuff
- no isometric view
- no 2D nonsense
- no Monthy Python/TARDIS/time traveling to F1 Vault 13 Easter eggs random encounters
 
I believe the next game should either take place in Alaska (so we can see more commy scum), or in the Great Plains. Hell Europe or South America would be cool. Imagine all the freaks that would come out of the Amazon region. Maybe their could even be giant sandstorms. I thought that would have been a good way of making a boundary in 3.

Fallout 4 needs:

Better dialog. More "real" choice. It seems like several pieces of dialog are missing from Fallout 3. Thats how poorely written it is for the most part.

More coherent story.

Better pathfinding.

More variety of enemies. The Mirelurks were cool. Yogi bears were not. Please Bethesda. I can think of better names than that. I did think the Nukalurks were fairly awesome. The whole plant was interesting.

More armor and weapons. I really like the Outcasts.

More stat checks.

More perks. There were a lot, but you can never have enough. Their seems to be certain ones that the game WANTS you to pick like the bounty hunting one and explorer.

More creative Vaults like the music and hallucinogen one.

More wasteland, less urban sprawl.I liked the sprawl, but I want desert now.

A vehicle of some sort. Fuck a damn ride able Deathclaw would be cool...not

Some sort of bloodsport, gladiator games, or deathrace-like event.

A truly large city with lots of stuff going on. Not just a bar and some shops.

Different organizations or enemies other than BOS, Enclave, and mutants. Perhaps some sort of Chinese enemy. I am curious to see their Power Armor if they have any. Any documentation on that? I think it would be cool if they had mech like suits similiar to Matrix Revolutions.

For Mods and expansions:
Descriptions!!! I understand not putting a description for everything,but at least have fucking descriptions of items and weapons. Jesus fucking Christ.

Bozar. Nuff said.

Highwayman or equivalent. A secret Mad Max car would give me a wet dream. I don't expect it but just saying

More info on the War.

20+ hours of main story for expansion. Over 20 for side quests.
More variety of Robot enemies. Maybe similar to the ones off of Tactics. If they are going to retconn it they need to implement more of it. Did only that splinter cell of BOS have the Zeppelins. I find it hard to believe that the BOS couldn't add on to the Vertibird now at the end of 3. It's been over 200 fucking years guys. You have some of the most advanced technology around. Liberty Prime is an example of using that tech, but make something that flies for shitsakes. Even if its only a prototype. I'm not saying I want to fly around like FF7 or anything. I just want a picture or document or something showing that it is being developed.

Giant Deathclaws in mech suits....just kidding.


Would Alaska have snow? Is everything desert because of the war and virus? I don't recall.I liked the way Resident Evil Extinctions virus sucked all of the moisture up. I know this isn't the case, but still. Another question. Did the Antarctic melt? Don't remember seeing that anywhere.

More to follow.......
 
im not a big fan a static isometric camera (liek in fo1/diablo)

i believe there was one isometic game, that lets you rotate the camera.... what was it called?

by roated, it basicly means change the orientation of the camera into one of the 4 preset fixed positions, of course
 
Also what is the obsession over loving turned-based combat?

its like a strategy game. no its not "realistic" but its incredibly addictive and thought provoking. for example action points are a resource you get every turn, i usually spend a lot of thought in how to use every last one of them to their fullest. even 1 single measly free ap can mean the difference between life and getting 3-4 rockets shoved up my ass.

now there are things you can do in real time combat that you cant in turn based(suppression fire for example, even if the game allows for interupts like x-com and silent storm you still have limited ability), however there are things that happen in turn based that dont fly in a truely ballenced real time system. look at fallout 3, weapons like the minigun do NO damage to give melee characters something of a chance. with an assult rifle full auto it might take me 20 hits on the enemy to put him down but only 3 with a power fist. in a turn based system a melee character can compete in a ballenced semi realistic environment. my latest hand to hand character does 2-7dmg per strike with his brass knuckles, the measly 10mm pistol is like 2-12 if i remember right, with the 10mm's range over the knuckles in most fights real time it would win with that damage scale. however because my character has a great deal of action points(action boy is such a nice thing to get for melee characters as well...) he can close with the pistoleer without being shredded before he even gets within reach. the pistoleer is then forced to choose between shooting point blank(and potentially getting punched by the melee) or running and potentially not getting a shot off or not running enough and still getting punched. its all a strategy game and it alters EVERYTHING in how combat behaves.

real time games have to create gimicks or tricks to allow melee to compete with rifles and shotguns. look at halo with its single hit fly across the room sword deaths, or shadow run's teleport system allowing for sword based users to manouver enough to be something of a threat. in fallout 1, 2 and tactics(if you set it to full turn based instead of the half system they got) every last type of character is pretty well ballenced by his strengths and weaknesses in combat. usually this sort of system makes a role playing game have whole new meaning and depth. its no longer the strongest character is the best at melee, or just pile on the endurance and make an omni character that can do everything with ease(as i have done in fo3) but a role playing strategy game where you have to think carefully about how you are going to aproach combat and the world carefully, because for example fritting away action points in combat(especially with a low agility character) is the quickest way to get killed. real time you can run, jump, shoot, and fart all at the same time, kinda dumbs down a lot of the gameplay.

anyway from what everyone has been requesting graphics and path finding wise i think i know the best engine currently for fo4(almost called it fo3.... whoops :P), its the engine that powers silent storm(ive dont a tad bit of modding for it but not much...).

the silent storm engine is designed for turn based play, it has fully destructable environments, its stock pathfinding is pretty damn sweet allowing you to climb onto low ledges, drop down and everything(imagine exploring some ruined lab facility like the glow with that system, it could bring it whole new depth). it allready has called shots and is primed for an rpg system(though it'd be a bit of work converting it to special). its 3d which has its own set of advantages. you can get a better idea of the environment, especially in one as dynamic as silent storm, you get more of an apreciation of the bad ass look of your character, and it is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH easier for the developers to put new objects into the game. it takes far less time to make a model for a thompson and animate it then it does to make 10 billion sprites with the thompson in its hands. but a sprite has no limit on detail when your modeling it before recording it(thus fo1 and 2's AWESOME gory death animations as opossed fo3's lameness).

the game also stock supports a world map that is VERY akin to fallout 1,2 and tactics complete with random encounters and everything. really taking that and turning it into a fallout game isnt too unbelievable, its pretty much set up to do it from the get go....


fallout 4 needs:

-epic plot that once again brings you to question the nature of humanity and what is right and wrong(seriously, the master's plan was one of the best plot paths ever).

-to actually use special and not allow individual skill to really determine the outcome of every last single thing(such as lock picking minigames, first person shooter fights that allow a character with 10% skill to kill a behemoth....)

-to be set smack dab in the center of the midwest. colorado being the center. it would make a GREAT area for fallout. colorado would have large radioactive areas potentially full of technology(i dont believe the rocky flats nuclear trigger factory would be shut down in the fallout timeline, there is norad, the air force command and denver is a good target too). utah would be struggleing but largely protected from colorado from the mountains. you'd have plains fights in the north, east and south, and have mountains to play in. besides its a good setting for a great plot, and as i said because of the radiation potential you could really expect a lot of gouls in the area.

-btw alaska is a STUPID setting. ya lets have the nation's largets most inhospitable least populated with the least roads state as the main focus of the game. a lot of the settlements there simply wouldnt survive without acess to a civilized outside world, so the player would essentially be walking through ghost town and ghost town and the only real settlements would likely be "tribals" in small groups. i mean dc could have been great but bethesda shat on every single last opertunity for story that the location itself presents(save for a stupid robot that thinks its a founding father, actually one of the few fun quests).

-to make the bozar what the image shows in fallout. that is a .50 caliber 10 round semi automatic low recoil sniper head exploding weapon. if the game were set up like fallout 1 or 2 it would be one of the few "slug throwers"(i love that slightly incorrect term... didnt that come from wasteland?) that is actually capible of dealing good damage to someone in power armor without a critical hit.

-large major cities similar to ncr, and so on. however something as big as klamath would also count as a "city" and then dotted around have small "settlements" and "homesteads". homesteads could be like 2-3 houses, settlements could be like 5-10. it doesnt seem that important but it will add a lot of depth to the world map, more places to hide possible quests, and a place for a tired hero to stumble into to duct tape himself together.

-as everyone is in agreeance just the general classic fallout rules, including the message box which added so much joy to the game helping you understand a lot about your suroundings as well as adding wit and sarcasm to the situation.
 
If the essence of Grognard complaints could be refined into a fuel source just a few you people could power planet earth for generations. Hate doesn't have tinge your opinions so heavily. I understand being invested in the product but please try and be realistic. It's a video game after all.
If you don't want to bother giving FO3 a fair chance don't, but constant screeching complaints get old fast. I know I'm a nay-sayer in the fan boy bunker here but c'mon. I loved isometric turn-based RPG Fallout deeply too after all. You just have accept things change. *shrugs*


Mostly I'd love for FO:4 to be just an improved and more player centric FO:3. The biggest problems I have being many that have plagued Fallout the series since it was released.

-Things to change-

Make stims/ammo much more rare, or at least something that isn't something I can buy limitlessly from a shop keeper with my metric tons of worthless bottle caps. This was a problem I had with Fallout 2 though to be fair.

Meh main quest: It didn't feel like my character's story. It was the Father and not me that did everything, heck I even had to die exactly like him. Beth had the same problem in Oblivion and needs to be a better GM and let their players shine. Though at least I appreciated the meeting with the president and thought the Enclave was better done than Fallout 2. One could argue that the Enclave under president Eden really would have recreated pre-war America eventually. While the previous Enclave were just “big bads” who wanted blow up the ocean or some nonsense.

Horrible NPC AI: This is a legacy of the Fallout universe I guess, but one I'm willing to see die. Both the pathing and the combat is terrible but at least they won't shoot you in the back ala Fallout 1 or 2, at least not that I've ever seen and I've ran in front of Fawkes plenty of times to check.

General NPC tweaks: I'd like to see NPCs actually use hitpoints and ammo thanks, plus give them a bit more personality! I really liked the ones we were given but was sorely disappointed they didn't have side quests, bonus speech threads (besides Fawkes at the end of the game, which is just annoying anyway) or anything. Seriously I can't ask Charon about has crazy past? Offer to give him back his contract and let him be a man of his own destiny? I can't find Fawkes' hidden past? Sarge doesn't comment on the fact I'm a Cyborg/Robotics Specialist? Nothing?!

Way too easy combat: Even on Very Hard most fights become targeted head shots until it dies in one or two hits. Though this was almost exactly the same problem with any other Fallout game but replace the head shot with eye shots. Plus Behemoth's are fantastic and scary enemies...until the moment you realize they can't fit in most of the world, have no ranged attacks, and just are time/bullet sponges.

Enemy repetition: Every Super Mutant Master thinks he's a WWII pilot? Every Brute wants to be in GWAR? No different and unique Raider gangs anymore? Really, the dopey tunnel snakes are the only ones to invent a logo? At least tactics let them change colors...
 
ceacar99 said:
-to actually use special and not allow individual skill to really determine the outcome of every last single thing(such as lock picking minigames, first person shooter fights that allow a character with 10% skill to kill a behemoth....)


-btw alaska is a STUPID setting. ya lets have the nation's largets most inhospitable least populated with the least roads state as the main focus of the game. a lot of the settlements there simply wouldnt survive without acess to a civilized outside world, so the player would essentially be walking through ghost town and ghost town and the only real settlements would likely be "tribals" in small groups. i mean dc could have been great but bethesda shat on every single last opertunity for story that the location itself presents(save for a stupid robot that thinks its a founding father, actually one of the few fun quests).

-to make the bozar what the image shows in fallout. that is a .50 caliber 10 round semi automatic low recoil sniper head exploding weapon. if the game were set up like fallout 1 or 2 it would be one of the few "slug throwers"(i love that slightly incorrect term... didnt that come from wasteland?) that is actually capible of dealing good damage to someone in power armor without a critical hit.

-large major cities similar to ncr, and so on. however something as big as klamath would also count as a "city" and then dotted around have small "settlements" and "homesteads". homesteads could be like 2-3 houses, settlements could be like 5-10. it doesnt seem that important but it will add a lot of depth to the world map, more places to hide possible quests, and a place for a tired hero to stumble into to duct tape himself together.


I liked Fallout 3 giving you an option to be able to use a gun and not be an absolute marksman master but still able to take down your enemies, just with more bullets. Let's face it in Fallout 1,2,T you were either worthless or a master. A 75% hit rating might as well read "waste your action points here" sign.
Potentially Fallout 3 could have been the first Fallout adventure where your character could literally never have needed to spend skills into combat, but that sadly isn't the case. Plus allowing a character to dabble in a few extra combat options is a refreshing change at least.

Alaska being stupid is a personal opinion of yours that I don't even understand. Since Fallout is not reality for all we know Alaska was a very different place pre-war for the USSA of the Fallout world. Plus a nuclear winter setting instead of the brown barren waste could be very interesting.

As per personal opinion goes I thought Fallout 2 having so many giant self contained perfectly hunky dorey almost modern cities like New Reno/NCR/San Fran was rather awful. But it did show progress that humanity was going to make a total comeback which, is just against the spirit of the post apocalyspe setting. But it was neat in certain a sense I can't deny.
 
The perfect fallout

-The original story and locations with modern graphics (they can be first person like Fo3 but they don't need too).

-Same itens as the original, plus a few new ones.

-Double or triple the number of side quests.

-Same turn based combat system, but with the option of not having to wait for like a dozen enemies to move (force turn).
 
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