the plague of political correctness and other shit...

[remake]

You're educated alright, but please do not parade your own chosen education upon others who haven't studied ancient greece or western culture. Simply, my friend, I fear you are hardly understood when using such a complex theory when a simple answer would suffice.

If we would all try to reason how we act and talk, look and feel, then the world would have no need for such idiot leaders, as it probably deserves.

Oh I would hardly consider myself "educated". Just interested in my own background which so happens to be a bit of both worlds. I also understand what you're saying but I cannot simply dumb the things I say down just for the sake of fitting in.

I take it that you agree with me in the second paragraph?

 

[Wooz]

/me fights off an overwhelming urge to kick out more idiots.

 

[Sander]

if i remember correctly the roman and greek culture is called the fundament of europe, so if you say we took something from arabs even if it was greek, your argumenation is pretty weak...

Roman and Greek culture is only a small part of the basis of European culture. In fact, Indian culture has been very influential as well. Besides that, all of our Mathematics are largely based on the Arabian world, as has a lot of our philosophy. Most Greek culture at the time was also heavily influenced by middle-eastern culture.

because you know some more facts then the average men, answer me few questions...

when raised the classical islamic civilization?

You are confusing Islamic for Arabian.
Also, during Islam's heyday (say, the European dark ages), the Arabian world was way ahead of the European world.

what are the foundaments?
why haven't it made any progress?

To even suggest that the Islamic world has not progressed shows your ignorance.

why has it perished?

I'm sorry, I thought that Islam was one of the largest religions in the world.
Oh wait, you're talking about the *Arabian* culture now?
Well, that hasn't 'perished' either.

I'll tell you what, let's apply your theories to Roman and Greek civilisations. So answer me this: Why have those civilisations perished?
Oooh, ooh, ooh! It must be because Western Europeans are inferior!!!

yes you are full of hate "my friend", you cant hide such feelings, its obvious to people that are interested in such things...

and don't start with this chauvinist bullshit, im a european integral-nationalist and im proud to be one...

You're the one arguing that Arabs are inferior, he's responding civilly.
Nope, wrong, you're the hateful one here.

 

[remake]

im not upset, your points are weak...
that questions can be easy answered if you have the courage...

because you know some more facts then the average men, answer me few questions...

when raised the classical islamic civilization?
what are the foundaments?
why haven't it made any progress?
why has it perished?

Look man I'm making a compromise by trying to communicate with you in a foreign language; English. I wish you would also try to at least say what you mean. I have difficulties understanding what you're trying to ask.

BUT!

From what I can make out of them your questions are not the type of questions that can be quickly answered in a couple of paragraphs. Nor are they relevant to the fact that "You are what you are (or I am what I am) because of we are who we all are." (I jacked that from the Ubuntu OS website) or your denial of quote I just jacked.

EDIT: Ziltoid is my homeboy! 8)

 

[Harahvaiti]

Bullshit. There is no such thing as a uniform European Civilisation, nor is Europe actually well-defined. In any way. The boundaries of Europe are largely dependant on cultural trends, with even Poland and Eastern Germany being excluded from the common perception of Europe, while at other times Europe extended as far as the entirety of Russia.

ive never claimed that there were a "universal euro civ", thats your statement, but the fact is there are enough aspects thats are similar, so it can be called a euro civ...

Are you fucking serious? The Arabian world had been the leader of the world on pretty much every level, including every form of science, for literally centuries. To suggest that, based on the recent decline of Arabian nations, Arabs are somehow a lesser people is ridiculous, especially if you consider the consequences of two World Wars and relative isolation from the rest of the world. The fact that they didn't join in with the Colonial Wars (except for, again, Turkey) is also a reason.

yes i am. the arabs where never a dominating power in world history (only the era of kalifate state is a exception) to claim the opposite is absurd.
i never sayed they arent worth or something, ii dont speak in racial terms, and again thats your interpretation, ive pointed out, the state of the past 800 years...
just look who ruled the area, most of them never even cared about the arabic peninsula, nor that did the babylonian, egypitans, romans, or persians, nobody cared...
so why?

btw do you remember lawrence of arabia...?

See also: The Marshall Plan, which got Western Europe back on its feet after an economically desastrous war for pretty much every country involved. The Eastern European countries never got any of it, because they were part of the Eastern Bloc. The consequences of that are still visible. The same goes for Arabian nations which suffered heavily from World War 2, but did not receive anywhere near as much help from the USA. Turkey did receive help, but only marginally so and on a much smaller scale than the rest of non-Soviet Europe. There are a bazillion different reasons why most Arabian nations are 'less civilised' than European nations, none of them have anything to do with them as a 'race'.

whats the point of this? answering on never asked questions?

Also note that Turkey is ahead of a shitload of 'European' nations, such as most of Eastern Europe.

ahead of what? kazahstan?
do you have any information whats going on in turkey?

 

[remake]

ive never claimed that there were a "universal euro civ", thats your statement, but the fact is there are enough aspects thats are similar, so it can be called a euro civ...

ahead of what? kazahstan?
do you have any information whats going on in turkey?

This whole argument started because you got all mad when I said that the "European" civilisation was a myth. Why the retreat now?

The single fact that Turkey didn't suffer under the Soviet regime, nor been ruled according to the Sharia for the past 80 years already sets us a step ahead of the rest of the ex-Ottoman states. It is not an easy task building a democracy from scratch my friend.

 

[Sander]

ive never claimed that there were a "universal euro civ", thats your statement, but the fact is there are enough aspects thats are similiar, so it can be called a euro civ...

Oh really? Take a look at conventions in The Netherlands, Poland, Hungary and Spain. Completely and utterly different in a lot of respects.

yes i am. the arabs where never a dominating power in world history (only the era of kalifat state is a exception) to claim the opposite is absurd.

...
Have you ever even heard of the Ottomans? That's about as much of a world-power as you got in those days.

i never sayed they arent worth or something, ii dont speak in racial terms, and again thats your interpretation, ive pointed out, the state of the past 800 years...

No you haven't. You pointed out a trend of the past 150 years, not one of the past 800 years. And even that trend is weak.
Again: looking over the past 800 years, Arabian civilisation was most definitely ahead of 'European' civilisation for large stretches of time.

just look who ruled the area, most of them never even cared about the arabic paninsula, nor that did the babylonian, egypitans, romans, or persians, nobody cared...
so why?

Have you ever even heard of Alexander the Great, Rommel, the Suez crisis or a dozen other incidents and people that show that the interest in the Middle-East has often been very large.

btw do u remember lowrance of arabia...?

..
So?

what the point about this? answering on never asked questions?

Are you seriously contending that you did *not* ask the question as to why Arabian countries are 'behind' European countries? What the fuck?

ahead of what? kazahstan?
do you have any information whats going on in turkey?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GDP_nominal_per_capita_world_map_IMF_figures_for_year_2006.png

Turkey is shown to be at least on par with many Eastern European countries.
Funnily enough, it also shows several other Arabian states with high GDP's per capita.
Whoops?

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

From what I can make out of them your questions are not the type of questions that can be quickly answered in a couple of paragraphs. Nor are they relevant to the fact that "You are what you are (or I am what I am) because of we are who we all are." (I jacked that from the Ubuntu OS website) or your denial of quote I just jacked.

Oh I would hardly consider myself "educated". Just interested in my own background which so happens to be a bit of both worlds. I also understand what you're saying but I cannot simply dumb the things I say down just for the sake of fitting in.

I take it that you agree with me in the second paragraph?

Well, you were saying in the gun thread that you're turkish and living in netherlands. That means you, and please, let's talk truth here, surpassed your own class.

I, like yourself, didn't have the luxury of being born in a rich western country, and neither a rich local family, for that matter.

The point is, to be topical at least for a paragraph, that it is simply not fair to have P.C. only with other races, arabs or blacks or any other, but more importantly to your fellow race, when being born in Switzerland or Norway, England America or Australia, remember the white caucasians that are born in less fortunate states like Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova or Poland, Ukraine and other nationalities that are your own skin and hair.

Arabs respect each other, so do latin people, so do blacks. We whites need to stick together.

I wonder who will be the first white caucasian brother to contradict me. For he will prove my point.

Also, regarding Turkey, speaking as a person who has visited 5-6 times, Istanbul, Ankara, Bodrum, Antalya, Tekirova, I can surely say the turism industry and standards are way above Italy or Germany, for that matter. But it stops there. Anything else, is dust.
The country is due in 2014 to enter the E.U. , how the hell does Ziltoid consider it above most countries in eastern europe, when most of them ARE in the E.U., is beyond me.

The gap between the poor and the rich is very deep in the countries I mentioned earlier, and this goes for Turkey and all Arab states as well.

 

[Harahvaiti]

Roman and Greek culture is only a small part of the basis of European culture. In fact, Indian culture has been very influential as well. Besides that, all of our Mathematics are largely based on the Arabian world, as has a lot of our philosophy. Most Greek culture at the time was also heavily influenced by middle-eastern culture.

it was influenced by the persian empire, not the arabs...
your assertion that persian is same as arabian is just absurd...

You are confusing Islamic for Arabian.
Also, during Islam's heyday (say, the European dark ages), the Arabian world was way ahead of the European world.

im not its not called the "classic arabic civilization", the correct term is "classic islamic civilization", you know?

I'm sorry, I thought that Islam was one of the largest religions in the world.
Oh wait, you're talking about the *Arabian* culture now?
Well, that hasn't 'perished' either.

again you are talking nonesense...

I'll tell you what, let's apply your theories to Roman and Greek civilisations. So answer me this: Why have those civilisations perished?
Oooh, ooh, ooh! It must be because Western Europeans are inferior!!!

wow what a great exemple for sarcasm...

You're the one arguing that Arabs are inferior, he's responding civilly.
Nope, wrong, you're the hateful one here.

first of all i dont even hate people that would deserve it, so stop claming bullshit...
you are making global statements, that are based on nothing, read some books and try it again, "my friend"...

 

[Sander]

Well, you were saying in the gun thread that you're turkish and living in netherlands. That means you, and please, let's talk truth here, surpassed your own class.

I, like yourself, didn't have the luxury of being born in a rich western country, and neither a rich local one.

The point is, to be topical at least for a paragraph, that it is simply not fair to have P.C. only with other races, arabs or blacks or any other, but more importantly to your fellow race, when being born in Switzerland or Norway, England America or Australia, remember the white caucasians that are born in less fortunate states like Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova or Poland, Ukraine and other nationalities that are your own skin and hair.

Arabs respect each other, so do latin people, so do blacks. We whites need to stick together.

I wonder who will be the first white caucasian brother to contradict me. For he will prove my point.

'I'm white so you're my brother'.
What a bunch of fucking horsheshit. The entire fact that this kind of thinking still exists amongst all 'races' just goes to show that people haven't gotten past the point of skin colour yet.
When I see someone with blonde hair and blue eyes I don't go 'Ey, you're my brother!' either, so why should I do that with anyone who shares my skin colour? It's just an external tell-tale that says absolutely nothing about the individual.

In case you hadn't noticed, "But they're doing it" is not a particularly strong argument.

it was influenced by the persian empire, not the arabs...
your assertion that persian is same as arabian is just absurd...

Now where did I assert that?
Persian, Arabian and Islamic culture are seperate, but very distinctly influenced eachother.

im not its not called the "classic arabic civilization", the correct term is "classic islamic civilization", you know?

No it isn't, because those two things are seperate, you know.

again you are talking nonesense...

No you are!
See what I did there? Arguments, Harah, not statements.

wow what a great exemple for sarcasm...

Care to actually respond to arguments, instead of just brushing them aside?

first of all i dont even hate people that would deserve it, so stop claming bullshit...

Oh, right, so why are you then asserting that remake is full of hate when you get offended when people assert that you're hateful?
Hypocrite.

you are making global statements, that are based on nothing, read some books and try it again, "my friend"...

I'm sorry, you can't stand actual arguments, so you just respond with 'you're wrong go read some books lol'.
Give me a fucking break.

 

[remake]

From what I can make out of them your questions are not the type of questions that can be quickly answered in a couple of paragraphs. Nor are they relevant to the fact that "You are what you are (or I am what I am) because of we are who we all are." (I jacked that from the Ubuntu OS website) or your denial of quote I just jacked.

Oh I would hardly consider myself "educated". Just interested in my own background which so happens to be a bit of both worlds. I also understand what you're saying but I cannot simply dumb the things I say down just for the sake of fitting in.

I take it that you agree with me in the second paragraph?

Well, you were saying in the gun thread that you're turkish and living in netherlands. That means you, and please, let's talk truth here, surpassed your own class.

I, like yourself, didn't have the luxury of being born in a rich western country, and neither a rich local one.

The point is, to be topical at least for a paragraph, that it is simply not fair to have P.C. only with other races, arabs or blacks or any other, but more importantly to your fellow race, when being born in Switzerland or Norway, England America or Australia, remember the white caucasians that are born in less fortunate states like Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova or Poland, Ukraine and other nationalities that are your own skin and hair.

Arabs respect each other, so do latin people, so do blacks. We whites need to stick together.

I wonder who will be the first white caucasian brother to contradict me. For he will prove my point.

I've been living here for the past 4 years. It's not like I was born here. Plus I don't agree with what you say about surpassing my own class. That's like saying you can only be autodidactic if you're situated in a rich country. I was the son of a middle class family in Turkey, I am the son of a middle-class family in the Netherlands as well. No difference there.

You are starting to sound racist with that whites need to stick together bullshit. We as the people of underdeveloped nations need to stick together, that's all. I also don't understand how you can be a European nationalist when the rest of Europe looks down on you (and us) in disgust for the unjust reasons I've been fighting against in this thread.

 

[Harahvaiti]

Oh really? Take a look at conventions in The Netherlands, Poland, Hungary and Spain. Completely and utterly different in a lot of respects.

they are different so what?
the point is we have enough things common, and thats all about, to be a member of a civilization, you dont need to be exact as somebody else who is a member of your civ...

Have you ever even heard of the Ottomans? That's about as much of a world-power as you got in those days.

ive talked in this thread about the turks, and something else do you really think turks are arabs?
they destroyed the califate state, when they created the ottoman empire, thats the end of the classic islamic civilization...

No you haven't. You pointed out a trend of the past 150 years, not one of the past 800 years. And even that trend is weak.
Again: looking over the past 800 years, Arabian civilisation was most definitely ahead of 'European' civilisation for large stretches of time.

the c.i.c. is based on the archievment of the persian empire, when they consumed anything and there were nothing left, they couldnt move forward because they couldnt develop it...


the revival of the european states was in the 17.th century, and thats when the turks were pushed back (war of 1783.-1799.)
that means european culture advanced much faster then the turkish and others...

Have you ever even heard of Alexander the Great, Rommel, the Suez crisis or a dozen other incidents and people that show that the interest in the Middle-East has often been very large.

alex the "great" wanted to conquer the persian empire, the arch enemy of the greeks, not the arabs...

rommel tried to get north africa from algeria to egypt, again not arabia...

Are you seriously contending that you did *not* ask the question as to why Arabian countries are 'behind' European countries? What the fuck?

thats what im asking myself when i read your posts...

Turkey is shown to be at least on par with many Eastern European countries.
Funnily enough, it also shows several other Arabian states with high GDP's per capita.
Whoops?

who is talking about gdp?

do you know whats about the thing called "crime against the turkish nation"?

 

[Sander]

they are different so what?
the point is we have enough things common, and thats all about, to be a member of a civilization, you dont need to be exact as somebody else who is a member of your civ...

So define civilisation for me. At what point does one civilisation start and another one end? Is Turkey part of a western or an Arabian civilisation? Is the USA's highly religious outlook compatible with Holland's largely atheistic outlook?

So far all you've been able to do is claim 'nuh-uh' without any arguments. So provide some.

ive talked in this thread about the turks, and something else do you really think turks are arabs?
they destroyed the califate state, when they created the ottoman empire, thats the end of the classic islamic civilization...

A completely arbitrary point, and faulty as well. Islamic civilisation most definitely carried over into the Ottoman state.

the c.i.c. is based on the archievment of the persian empire, when they consumed anything and there were nothing left, they couldnt move forward because they couldnt develop it...

C.i.c?

the revival of the european states was in the 17.th century, and thats when the turks were pushed back (war of 1783.-1799.)
that means european culture advanced much faster then the turkish and others...

...
Right, and when the Ottoman empire conquered Constantinople that must've meant that the Turkish culture was ahead of European culture, so extrapolating from that Turks>Harahvaiti!!
You can't just take a random point in history that happens to coincide with what you *want* to find and then extrapolate *everything* from just that random point.

alex the "great" wanted to conquer the persian empire, the arch enemy of the greeks, not the arabs...

rommel tried to get north africa from algeria to egypt, again not arabia...

Both included large stretches of Arabia. Don't be silly.

Are you seriously contending that you did *not* ask the question as to why Arabian countries are 'behind' European countries? What the fuck?

thats what im asking myself when i read your posts...

Answer my question: are you seriously contending that you did *not* ask the question as to why Arabian coutnries are 'behind' European countries?

who is talking about gdp?

You asked for data on the Turkish state, I gave you some. If you didn't want this data, maybe you should learn to explain yourself more properly.

do you know whats about the thing called "crime against the turkish nation"?

Please attempt to construct English sentences so that I can actually respond to points.

 

[Harahvaiti]

im not its not called the "classic arabic civilization", the correct term is "classic islamic civilization", you know?

No it isn't, because those two things are separate, you know.

you are really incredible, DO you even know whats the classic islamic civilization???

See what I did there? Arguments, Harah, not statements.

where are your arguments, you are making all the time global statements, nothing more...

Oh, right, so why are you then asserting that remake is full of hate when you get offended when people assert that you're hateful?
Hypocrite.

do you know whats a hypocrite?

I'm sorry, you can't stand actual arguments, so you just respond with 'you're wrong go read some books lol'.
Give me a fucking break.

yes books help people, you should try it...

do you know whats about the thing called "crime against the turkish nation"?

Please attempt to construct English sentences so that I can actually respond to points.

haha, now you are starting with your "true" arguments...

 

[Sander]

you are really incredible, DO you even know whats the classic islamic civilization???

Yes. Do you even know what the classic Arabian civilisation is?
I'll give you a hint: it existed before Islam.

where are your arguments, you are making all the time global statements, nothing more...

Bullshite. I'm both responding to your vague statements and providing arguments. I'm also pointing out how you're doing neither, but are instead bitching about 'global statements' without even being able to point out what exactly is wrong with those statements.

Oh, right, so why are you then asserting that remake is full of hate when you get offended when people assert that you're hateful?
Hypocrite.

do you know whats a hypocrite?

Is your only answer to a valid argument really 'do you know whats {fill in the blank}?
Yes, I do know what a hypocrite is. The situation I just described fits it very well.

yes books help people, you should try it...

Now who's making assumptions?
The first thing I suggested you do to brush up on European history is read Norman Davies' Europe: A History.
Whoops, slipped your mind, did it?

Now yet again: do not attempt to sidestep arguments by going 'read some books' or 'you're wrong'. Arguments convince people, statements do not.

haha, now you are starting with your "true" arguments...

I'm not kidding. I could not make heads or tails of that sentence. Your English is severely lacking.

 

[remake]

they are different so what?
the point is we have enough things common, and thats all about, to be a member of a civilization, you dont need to be exact as somebody else who is a member of your civ...

That right there is the death sentence of your rubbish talk.

Civilization means the sum of all the world cultures. It's not a union, or an organisation, or some sort of a gentlemen's club that you have to apply to get admitted to. Damn!

One last thing and I'm off to bed. The Ottomans didn't abolish the Caliphate. It was the Republic of Turkey that did it 80 years ago not 800.

As I've said before Rome wasn't built in a day. Turkey is located in a very unstable area and we're still a very young nation. We're by no means perfect but this is the fastest we can get there with all the foreign influence and all the limitations working against our favour.

The whole history of the USA is just as long as the decline period of a single empire that we built. We are people with a strong state tradition and rich culture I have no doubts we will catch up with the modernised world in no time.