The true flaw of Fallout 4 by C.T. Phipps - The Halfassedry

CT Phipps said:
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One thing that crosses my mind when I read your posts is that you like to think of game scenes in symbolic rather than literal terms. This is obviously neither legit nor invalid, but it creates a divide in how you think about the game versus how most others do.

For example:
Wife & husband argue. Wife smacks husband with a lamp and kicks him in the crotch, which results in him staggering back and falling out the second story window. If game plays this off as silly or trivial, it has to be perfectly setup. Most people will interpret this as meaning the wife is psycho, which might conflict with what the game was trying to say if the writers intended it to be slapstick and zany.

As a writer, you may ignore what the game actually showed us while trying to look for the message the game wanted to convey. But in many cases, the execution is the important part. The disconnect between execution and intent is, to a fair extent, what makes people respond poorly.

Also: I like radiant quests. But they've got to mixed in with handcrafted content at a reasonable ratio, like 50-50 or better. And they can't be frequently forced on you. This is similar to what I said above in terms of it being design intent versus implementation. Only our roles are reversed in the discussion on this one. ;)
 
Vergil said:
Honestly the generic "you were actually a synth the whole time!" twist that I thought they were going to go with was better than what we ended up getting. At least then you could fill in the gaps in bethesda's writing and the main character's shitty, robotic performance with him being a "glitchy" android.
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But Vergil, they DID go that route remember? If you play through Far Harbor and side with the Synths, when you talk to their leader (Nick's brother or some shit)
he basically tells you he has a simple test to determine whether someone's a synth or not. When he asks you these questions and then explains your answers you literally aren't allowed to give a straight answer, you can only say "That's bullshit" or "You're lying". This pretty much means that it is in fact possible that you're character's a Synth as you literally can't refute his claims logically in-game no matter your Intelligence or otherwise

Isn't that just dainty? They went with the laziest plot twist after all.
 
Ragemage said:
But Vergil, they DID go that route remember? If you play through Far Harbor and side with the Synths, when you talk to their leader (Nick's brother or some shit)
he basically tells you he has a simple test to determine whether someone's a synth or not. When he asks you these questions and then explains your answers you literally aren't allowed to give a straight answer, you can only say "That's bullshit" or "You're lying". This pretty much means that it is in fact possible that you're character's a Synth as you literally can't refute his claims logically in-game no matter your Intelligence or otherwise

Isn't that just dainty? They went with the laziest plot twist after all.
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I always found that just more him trying to blur the lines between Synth and human. I mean if you're really a synth that just adds another plothole to the pile. Why would the Institute let a Synth become their leader? Why wouldn't they just shut down a hostile Synth protag? etc.
 
Vergil said:
I always found that just more him trying to blur the lines between Synth and human. I mean if you're really a synth that just adds another plothole to the pile. Why would the Institute let a Synth become their leader? Why wouldn't they just shut down a hostile Synth protag? etc.
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Well, for the same reason the Institute can't seem to find the Railroad or its Synths after they've been disguised. They either don't give a shit about certain synths or they don't know you're a synth. Considering you can get plastic surgery within the game and whatnot I'm just going to go out on a limb and say you don't look like you do when you were first built. That's the only explanation.

Also, you act like Bethesda gives a shit about plotholes. They just want shitty twists to make people go "ohhh they got me! Bethesda's so gud at twists omg dis is better than when I was forced to kill Parthurnaax or lose the Blades as companions!"

Clearly if you weren't meant to take away from this that "oh your character might be a synth oooo we're da best twisters since M. Night Shamalayan!" then you would have been able to refute his claim with logic or have some kind of Institute dialogue or fucking something, but you can only go "Oh mer Gerd I might be a rubut" or "fuck u tin can I'm a human bean"
 
Ragemage said:
Clearly if you weren't meant to take away from this that "oh your character might be a synth oooo we're da best twisters since M. Night Shamalayan!" then you would have been able to refute his claim with logic or have some kind of Institute dialogue or fucking something, but you can only go "Oh mer Gerd I might be a rubut" or "fuck u tin can I'm a human bean"
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Now you're acting like bethesda would be able to write good dialog. They want to make the player think that because "ooo spooky mysterious" but they can't make it work without forcing your character to act like a retard for that scene. They want people to speculate but they can't write an intelligent scenario that would cause speculation so they just force it with their shit dialog system.
 
Yeah, the "SS is a Synth" would be a fun twist if ANYTHING IN THE GAME SUPPORTED IT.

Which doesn't because, well, the Vault Tech rep remembers him.

Also, the SS clearly DOES remember things before the bomb dropping since he knows about baseball.
 
CT Phipps said:
Yeah, the "SS is a Synth" would be a fun twist if ANYTHING IN THE GAME SUPPORTED IT.

Which doesn't because, well, the Vault Tech rep remembers him.

Also, the SS clearly DOES remember things before the bomb dropping since he knows about baseball.
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OK, I really, truly hate to say this but: implanted memories. We know it's possible due to Nick. And an identical body. The problem is that I don't see any reason for Shaun and the Institute to do this. But let's handwave that for now.

I'd prefer a Blade Runner-like hint setup where there's some vague evidence spread around to suggest that it might be possible, but it's up to the player to decide.

While I feel like the whole "SS is a synth" idea is a little trite, it would be dramatic to realize that hunting down and killing Kellogg, and everything else, was all done for a fantasy. It also somewhat reverses the role with Shaun, because you're his father, but you're also his son. And it brings in a lot of philosophical questions about whether a person is more than their memories. If you had all of the SS progenitor's memories, are you the SS, a cheap copy, an improved version or something else?

Granted, that last part is identical to Nick, but it's different when experienced from the player's perspective. And those issues weren't explored very thoroughly with Nick.

Suggestion after these ruminations: Provide hints and clues throughout the game to get the player asking questions. Spread them out Morrowind-style so you won't easily get the whole picture on a single playthrough. Have a point near the end where it's revealed that the SS is a synth. Make the player sweat it out and consider it. Then provide contradictory evidence after the end. Leave it up to the player to decide what the truth is.

Plus, you can drive players crazy if there are scattered hints that point one way or the other. People would go mad exploring everywhere to find the answer, when (hopefully) there's just more lore that ultimately leads nowhere (in terms of an authoritative conclusion). I like it.
 
I think in any scenario where the Sole Survivor is a Synth, that's it's a case of Shaun trying to resolve his Daddy issues. You could easily have a case where the Sole Survivor DOES have such a shocking revelation.
Basically, that Kellog murdered BOTH of his parents and collected him.

So Shaun made a Synth of his mom or dad to take metaphorical vengeance on Kellog and have someone who would replace him at the Institute as well as give "him" the childhood he deserves.

That actually had some storytelling legs.

However, the biggest argument isn't the Institute would know (as Shaun covered up Virgil's experiments) but that Kellog clearly knows why you're after him and approves.

Plus there's no evidence of such.

In general, I do approve of the possibility being raised in Far Harbor, though, because Decker being a replicant in Bladerunner is stupid just like the Sole Survivor being one.

But the possibility being teased is interesting.
 
Sort of related.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu:_Dark_Corners_of_the_Earth
I actually didn't know Bethesda and Ubisoft worked together.
I am disgusted at the references to "Elder signs", Taking place in Boston, based off of The Shadow over Innsmouth which is obviously H.P.L. and already done in Oblivion, Yithian directed-energy weapon, Esoteric Order of Dagon.

So basically every facet, every title has to be dipped in the H.P. vat of Bethesda along with the vat of all their other games. All games are one. If you want to know the direction of the next title, it will be mentioned in this shit game. They are all iterations of the same game. Fallout 4's failings are extracted from Skyrim's failings, which were extracted from Fallout 3's failings, which where extracted from Oblivion's failings, which where extracted from Morrowind's failings. The next entries will be a re-upload of all the things wrong, mishmashed together in a procedural heap of H.P. and a creatively bankrupt company.

ES 6 will be 1/5 Fallout 4 game play, 1/5 elderscrolls product placement like races and elder scrolls, 1/5 popular mods, 1/5 popular games of that time and 1/5 rehashed HP.

Fallout 5 will be 1/5 Elder Scrolls 6 game play, 1/5 Fallout product placement like Nuka Cola and Vats, 1/5 popular mods, 1/5 popular games of that time and 1/5 rehashed HP.

I'm done.
 
I've said it right from the start, Fallout 4 is a tale of half-assing and missed opportunities.
There is not a single aspect of the game that isn't flawed by laziness. Not a single thing. Even the good parts like the way power armour works could have been much better and much more involved by putting a tiny amount of extra work in it, but no. Every. Single. Thing. The only thing they actually fully committed to was the half-assery. It's so lazy you'd think Rob Liefeld was in charge of it.
But I guess even the laziest piece of shit can get you a 9/10. I'm sure the Toddler, Emil, and Pete "Shiteating" Hines are like
Woody-Harrelson-Wiping-Tears-Money.gif

when they're reading that CT Phipps actually disliked most aspects of the game. It certainly didn't show in the score.
 
The only moments I thinked it was a good game was at the foundation of my little business and trade route network, and it proved unrewarding, pointless, unbalanced, un-etc.
The rest of the time, either things with the faintest hit of potential fell short, or they were straight up mediocre and dumb.
BOS? Maybe there are more than like, 2 Real NPC's there!
Crafting? I can make my own arsenal that'll define my char- nope there are like 4 distinct guns and there are upgrades
And an infinite so on
 
Well, Fallout 1. 2, New Vegas, and 3 are on my list of all time top favorite video games.

Fallout 4 is like....86.

That's a significant step down.
 
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