the US and religious fundamentalism

welsh said:
The interesting (and I think a good) characteristic of American religion is that its diverse and incorporates a great variety of faiths and generally speaking, its fairly tolerant.

I tend to think that overall, all things considered, this is true. But intolerance here of any sorttakes a subtler form than it may in a place with more obvious struggles. It is perhaps comparable to when i have asked African Americans i have known if they have experienced what they perceive as rascism, and most of them have, but it often happens in such a way that it's hard for the mainstream to see, so they believe comfortably that it doesn't exist. Then they get nervous when they see a black guy walking down the street.

Living in small town Kansas and Missouri, I knew my whole life that it was somehow unacceptable to be something other than a Christian and had this reinforced all the time by my peers and also adults. No, i was not beaten, but i was disapproved of and reminded often of something which, in a setting such as public school, ought to have no bearing. My parents were a stronger influence, and their lack of any strong beliefs helped keep my brain in a more elastic questioning state, where any sort of zealotry seemed absurd, but peoples' fucking fear of their silly wrathful vision of god was nonetheless terrifying to me, just as monsters and aliens were.

I lived in small University town when i was a child. I would say 85% of the people i knew when i last lived there were Christian, and out of those, well how can i say how many of them than had any trace of fundamentalist attitudes? Perhaps not very many. But in the smalller Kansan towns, as well as many of the towns i have frequented and lived in in MO, i would say undoubtedly a larger percentage of people seem to have fundamentalist attitudes. Many times i, forgetting where i am in the world, receive a great shock when someone says something about the Moslims, the going to hell faggots, even the Catholics. Sometimes these folks are looking for agreement, which i am not willing to provide them with.

It must also be said that many of these people in my experience express intolerance of many forms, not just in regards to religion, and so it may not be best described as a religious issue per se. But certainly when people like radio host R--h L-------h try their best to become spokespeople for the entire "conversavative" community and decide to conveniently bundle ideas and beliefs together like a value meal at McDonalds, you have the unfortunate situation where people absurdly associate beliefs in their brains which ought to be kept and considered separately, and this has made issues like immigration and stemcell research become much more firey topics than they ought to be.
 
Small town Kansas and MO aren't exactly representative of America as a whole.
I resent painting the states with such a broad brush. I live in the NE, all the states around here -

-we don't teach creationism
-we have state mandated insurance
-gay marraige
-medical/decriminalized marijuana
In short we are pretty progressive.
And we subsidize these other yahoo states with our Fed. taxes.
The only fundamentalists here are Red Sox fans. :P

There really is a marked red state/blue state difference.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Small town Kansas and MO aren't exactly representative of America as a whole.
I resent painting the states with such a broad brush. I live in the NE.....

In short we are pretty progressive.
And we subsidize these other yahoo states with our Fed. taxes.
The only fundamentalists here are Red Sox fans. :P

I don't see what i said as something worth being resentful over. Just presenting anecdotal evidence as you have. The U.S. is hardly a homogenous. It's always absurd trying to generalize, but the human brain loves to do it to simplify the task of perception.
 
Ashmo said:
The US is a religious cess pool and its abominations are now spilling over to Europe.
Since when? Christianity continues to decline in Europe, whereas Islam's influence keeps increasing.


Knödelkarpfen said:
I tend to think that overall, all things considered, this is true. But intolerance here of any sorttakes a subtler form than it may in a place with more obvious struggles. It is perhaps comparable to when i have asked African Americans i have known if they have experienced what they perceive as rascism, and most of them have, but it often happens in such a way that it's hard for the mainstream to see, so they believe comfortably that it doesn't exist.
If racism really was a problem, people wouldn't feel the need to constantly fabricate and make up instances of "racism" (the Resident Evil 5 debacle for example).

Then they get nervous when they see a black guy walking down the street.
And this statement would actually be a good example of imaginary racism.
 
It's a minor thing perhaps. But how does the mainstream decide for a certain group that they are no longer the subject of bigotry, that they're merely being delusional and/or oversensitive? Certainly there seems to be some overreaction on these issues occasionally, but i do not think this is a fair reason to wholly discount the validity of all such claims. Life is much more complex. For my part, I may have in the past thought that certain Christian groups were being absurd in claiming that Christians in this country are being persecuted, but now i have been in situations where, if not persecuted, they were clearly being discriminated against, and i have felt the compulsion to speak up for them. Persecution still seems too strong of a word to me, but i can no longer reject these claims outright.
 
Not sure if religion is in decline in Europe. I agree that it doesn't have the popularity it once had, but from what I see, religion is on the mend and seems to be growing. Part of that might be a response to the Christian movement in the US. In that sense, I can see where Ashmo is coming from in his comment. That US religious NGOs are spreading the faith in other parts of the world, is well known.

That worries me, because those faiths can be utilized for political purposes, largely because the states in those countries are weak when it comes to providing social services.

To think that racism is imaginary is just foolish. But I think its mostly a generational issues as well, as is gay marriage. The older generation is still defined by those issues of identity. The younger generation doesn't really care.

The idea that Christian groups in the US are persecuted for their beliefs is absurd. They are the majority of the country. They have the political power.

Are they being discriminated against? Nonsense. The defense of faith, no. They have been on the offensive.

Take for instance- religious groups taking money from the government for social projects- part of the faith based initiative scheme- can also discriminate in their hiring of people who don't share their faith.

So the government is funding discrimination? How? The chruch uses the freedom of expression and establishment to say "we can do what we want" and what happened to equal protection? Its fucked up. This is why the state should not involve itself in funding religion at all.
 
Sorry to interrupt this in-depth exchange about my loyalists.

Can somebody lend me some eggs? I can't seem to find mine. I think somebody's playing some sorta joke and hid them on me.
 
failout said:
If racism really was a problem, people wouldn't feel the need to constantly fabricate and make up instances of "racism" (the Resident Evil 5 debacle for example).
That's some fucked up logic right there. The fact that race issues can occasionally be blown out of proportion does not mean racism is not a problem.
 
Well for what its worth, I try to get my students to think carefully about racism. I agree that its easy to "claim racism" or to find racism when it doesn't exit. In the process, the racism can be utilized easily to explain some social injustice. I actually think more of the problems in the US come from class rather than race.

But to assume racism doesn't exist is just foolish. It is one of the ways we define ourselves and humans, being social animals, identify themselves along racial lines.

Better to think about what causes racism than whether it exists. I think often the cause of racism are structured. To hate a person merely because they are of a different race then you is just plain stupid. To act on that hatred is assine. That's why most race supremists, nazi's, or aryan nation types are a pretty pathetic bunch. Its a cult of stupidity.

But there are real reasons why people split along racial lines. Sometimes its matter of education- how you were raised. Its really hard to shake your early indoctrination into an ideology- even if its racist.

Sometimes its just bad experiences. But other times its economic- you don't like having blacks in your neighborhood because it reduces your property values. Its racist, but the motivation is economic.

To assume it doesn't exist is foolish. We live in a world where we frequently make broad generalizations about other people based on past experiences. Those generalizations often include how we characterize people of different races- if only based on our past experiences.

Honestly, I don't trust my Chinese students because I have found that they cheat way too often. I worry about my African-American female students because they usually come from poor school districts where they worked real hard but didn't get the education they needed. I have Latino females who I know have problems with overly protective parents. I make generalizations based on ethnicity and race. Does that make me a racist? Sometimes.

@ Jesus- did you check behind the couch? Or in the Planter? That's where they used to hide the eggs.
 
when it comes to all of this.

The Asshole who yells the loudest is the one heard the most.
 
@ Jesus-

You're welcome my Lord and savior.

Although, I am still not sure how you managed to lay eggs. I assume it was another of those crazy miracles.
 
failout said:
Saudi Arabia isn't the way it is because 50 years ago they were goat farmers or whatever.

I think what he meant is that in a uneducated/uncult people its easier to manipulate their minds and beliefs, which in result makes fairly easier to create religious fundamentalists. (so its understandable why there are so many there)

Its a group of factors indeed, but ignorance is probably the most decisive.
 
Back
Top