The World Is Insane

[John Uskglass]

Who needed proff, but here it is anyway;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4413913.stm



Europe influence seen as positive

French influence seems more welcome abroad than that of the US
Europe - and France in particular - are seen as benevolent forces in a world largely scornful of US influence, a poll taken in 23 countries suggests.

The survey found that, on average, 58% of people want Europe to play a bigger role than the US in world affairs.

France emerged as the single country with the best reputation abroad.

The survey was carried out by polling group GlobeScan and the University of Maryland with some questions provided by the BBC World Service.

Of the 23,518 people polled, 47% said the US had a negative effect on the world, with US neighbours and allied countries being among its biggest critics.

Overall, 15 of the 23 countries surveyed said the US had a negative influence in the world.


Our survey shows that Europe's star has risen as America's has declined under the Bush administration
Doug Miller
GlobeScan

Disapproval for the US was highest in Argentina, Germany, Russia, Turkey, Canada and Mexico.

Countries where people regarded the US most favourably were the Philippines, South Africa, India, Poland and South Korea.

After the US, Russia was the country with the least positive reputation abroad among those questioned.

China was largely seen to be a good influence in the world with, on average, 48% of people regarding it favourably. The survey showed support for China's growing economic role - but little enthusiasm for its military potential.

The poll was conducted between 15 November 2004 and 5 January 2005 and the sample was limited to major urban areas in eight of the countries.

The poll's margin of error ranges from +/-2.5 to 4%.

France 'best'

In 22 of the 23 countries polled, people felt Europe had a generally positive influence on the world.

France had the best reputation of the big nations, viewed favourably in 20 countries.

French influence was opposed by a majority of people in the US alone, while its biggest supporter was its historical enemy, Germany, where some 77% felt France was a force for good.

Although 55% of US citizens felt greater European influence would be a bad thing, 34% of Americans felt the opposite - a statistic which the report's authors claim reflects deep political divisions within the US.

India appeared to be the only nation more or less equally divided over whether greater European influence would be beneficial for the world.

Influence of trade

The results show trade to be an effective tool of influence, said Steven Kull, a director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes (Pipa) at the University of Maryland which conducted the poll.

"What is notable here is that Europe and China, which have engaged the world primarily through economic relations - or soft power - are widely seen as having a positive influence," he said.

However, "countries that have very large militaries and have recently used them in a prominent way - the US and Russia - are more often seen as having a negative influence", he said.

Doug Miller, of GlobeScan, said the poll was worrying for Americans.

"Our survey shows that Europe's star has risen as America's has declined under the Bush administration," he said.

China was largely seen to be a good influence in the world with, on average, 48% of people regarding it favourably.

China executes more people then the rest of the world combined and has among the worst human rights record of any nations in the world, not to mention the fact that it supports regiems like North Korea and friends.

France, motherland of draconian politics and probably the nation with the worst international human rights record of any democratic nation. French foreign policy makes American look like it was hatched up overnight by the beloved son of a Canadian Multiculturalist and a Scandanavian Socialist.

I personally suggest we make a gamble to exact punishment on the rest of the world for it's immense stupidty.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

The world has always looked up to us for obvious reasons. Now, because of Bush were the drunken father of the world's democracy's. All the while making them re-consider nationalism and communism Im sure.

I remember when the Pope requested that Bush see him and specifically told Bush how disappointed he was that the USA is instegating war when in his opinion the USA was at the forefront of example of peaceful, prosperous country's.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

*EDIT*

I have no idea why the support for China though. Strikes me as very odd.

 

[Bradylama]

China's economy is built upon the back of foreign investment, and it is this economy that people think will provide competition to America's economic might. China has a good foreign impact because they have no foreign impact.

But yeah, sure, let's trust the French.

 

[calculon000]

I don't even know why anyone would see the French as a good influence other than the fact that they simply oppose the US.

Here I thought it was just the USA who was insane, but apparently it's just humanity, so the USA can't really be blamed for it.

 

[Scrapper]

No, really, what do the French matter? I hate to sound like a stereotypical American, but they honestly haven't won a war by themselves since... since...

...Help me out here, people.

 

[calculon000]

1800? Maybe they were defeated in the end, but they did conquer a fair bit of Europe, so they won some wars against individual countries.

 

[welsh]

THere was a special on last night on the Discovery Channel with Thomas Friedman asking about this very issue.

It replays next week-
http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/spotlight/europe/europe.html

Welcome to Bush world. For a lot of Europeans, Bush has stolen what was best about america and perverted it to something else, something more dangerous.

I think if you look at it more carefully one sees more clever movements at work. You have Europeans banning american cosmetics because of trace amounts of chemicals that might be harmful if consumed in large amounts- yet nothing done about smoking. Why? Maybe it has something to do with lobbying by European cosmetic companies? You see american mergers being stopped by European anti-trust regulators yet suprising supportive of their own mergers.

At the same time the Europeans have these incredible social policies that americans couldn't dream of having, while america has shouldered the bulk of European defense.

Under Clinton they loved us, under Bush they hate us.

At the same time they tend to blind themselves to their own actions.

Anyway, the special replays next week.

 

[calculon000]

I appreciate the link Welsh, but GOOD GAWD I'd like to meet the designer of THAT site!

 

[Kamikaze]

No, really, what do the French matter? I hate to sound like a stereotypical American, but they honestly haven't won a war by themselves since... since...

...Help me out here, people.

Yeah you do sound like a "stereotypical American". Were you in any of the wars where you "helped" the french so you could whine about them not being able to "handle" the situations. I do not belive a country is defined by their ability to fight. French culture has influence the world greatly.

and, yaknow Make peace, not war. Yes america is truly honorable by waiting until the last moment so they could step in and "win the war" than bitch about it for several hundred years after. Yeah and going to "free iraq" is really 'great' military conquest too.

No im not a hippie or a peace defender or something like that. I just hate the american "we are the cream of the world" and "we keep world safe" (right) attitude.

 

[calculon000]

A. In WW1, America broke the stalemate.

B. In WW2, I guess by the time D-Day came around, it was the last minute huh?

C. The French helped America become a country in the first place.

 

[Bradylama]

Before WW1, France was often the greatest military power in Europe. The French have always been great fighters and extraordinarily resilient, but their military history has generally been plagued by two things: an ineffective navy, and incompetent leadership.

For Centuries, French soldiers have been lead into foolish conflicts by utter idiots, and when France was close to the verge of triumph (Napoleon) they were made a whipping boy by the British Lion and his indominable naval power (as well as needing to be taken down by all of Europe).

As recently as World War 2, the French were doomed by the short-sightedness of their leaders and the French people. The Maginot Line has often been seen as one of the greatest military catastrophes in history, but it was in fact a brilliant example of military engineering, and a fine example of French capabilities. The Line was a brilliant success, in that it encouraged the Germans to seek an alternative solution, and that alternative was an invasion through the Ardennes, which brings us back once again to short-sighted leaders, who thought that no modern army could invade through the Ardennes. They were wrong.

The French aren't ineffective because of a poor military, but because of the French themselves. Post-Modernism has held Europe back like a mofo.

 

[John Uskglass]

Ditto Bradylama.

welsh, Clinton was not Frederick II of Prussia, nor is Bush's unpopularity proof that he has had a negative influence on the world.

 

[Jebus]

Eh.

Don't you just love those idiots with their constant 'OMG France loses every war' remarks?
If you were to read history, you'd know that France is most the single most important nation for the creation of the world as it is today. There's no end to what we owe to the French.

 

[John Uskglass]

If you were to read history, you'd know that France is most the single most important nation for the creation of the world as it is today. There's no end to what we owe to the French.

Eh. Well.....maybe after about 800 AD. Maybe.

And the British are up there, maybe equal.

I will never comment upon French 'cowardice' or lack of fighting ability, however.

I am saying, however, that thier post-WWI foreign policy is, to put it mildly, Machivellian.

 

[Jebus]

If you were to read history, you'd know that France is most the single most important nation for the creation of the world as it is today. There's no end to what we owe to the French.

Eh. Well.....maybe after about 800 AD. Maybe.

And the British are up there, maybe equal.

Yeah, I was obviously referring to the 'French', not the Pre-Charlemagne Frankish clans.

But OMG! You've proven yourself to be a smartass again. It's another good day for you. We all bow to your superiour and allmighty intellect, my glorious demi-God! I would've never known that by myself.

 

[John Uskglass]

Yeah, I was obviously referring to the 'French', not the Pre-Charlemagne Frankish clans.

Not my point. My point was that the French are probably the most important after 800 AD; meaning that several civilizations before 800 AD are clearly more influential and important.

 

[Jebus]

Yeah, I was obviously referring to the 'French', not the Pre-Charlemagne Frankish clans.

Not my point. My point was that the French are probably the most important after 800 AD; meaning that several civilizations before 800 AD are clearly more influential and important.

Note how I said 'the world today', and not 'the world as it was before the French nation was concieved'.

But OMG you're right, I forgot the Romans. THEY were the ones who influenced our current society so much!

You don't actually believe in that Classical-history-professor circle jerk, do you? Without the French creation of the Proto-nationstate, the French mercantilism and the French enlightenment, we'd still be wearing Toga's and thinking we're so awefully cultered because we're simulating a supposedly grand culture.


Or now you're probably going to come up with, say, the Greeks? The Phoenicians? The Egyptians? The Carthaginians? Come on CCR, so much opportunities to be a smartass here! Drag in your Wikipedia, and show us your true power! YOU KNOW EVERYTHING BETTER! PLEASE TELL ME! PLEASE!


*EDIT* And you mean 843 AD, fool. Everybody knows that date.

 

[John Uskglass]

Jebus, I don't know which is less flattering; inane sarcasm, French nationalism from a college student in Flanders or Eurocentrism.

Bullshit Jebus and you know it. If the French had not been there, someone else would have filled in the spot. Jesus Jebus, this is just inane.

I do not know more about history then you, but you are just being an ass here.

 

[Jebus]

French nationalism from a college student in Flanders or Eurocentrism.

Ehehe. Eurocentrism in history might not be very politically correct, but we all know it exists for a reason. Glory and respect be to the Chinese, the Inca's, the Hausa or whoever - but it's Europe that forged the global society.

French nationalism? I'm not a French nationalist. Yet I have enormous respect for French history - because from 1500 onward, and especially when the Habsburg empire got split up, until about the first World War France was the centre of the world. Everything that happened could be traced back to the French. Everybody knows human society never evolved faster than it did between the Renaissance and now, and by God - most of the evolution happened in France. Granted, there's also the Industrial revolution and so, but calling the French historical wussies is a crime against memoriam.

Bullshit Jebus and you know it. If the French had not been there, someone else would have filled in the spot. Jesus Jebus, this is just inane.

Yeah, that's just a stupid argument. If Jesus had never been born, someone else would've said what he said. If Hitler had never been born, someone else could've done what he's done. So omg, they're not important.

I do not know more about history then you, but you are just being an ass here.

Yeah. I just don't like you, CCR.

You know, I used to be just like you once. I was once too the guy who had to say the answers of the TV-quizzes he watched out loud, would start using big words in simple situations, contantly have my finger raised in class, start meaningless discussions with my teachers, convinced I knew better, or started butting in and giving 'background information' whenever someone talked about something I knew something about. I used to do that too. Until I figured out why nobody liked me.

That's when I pulled myself together, lost twenty kg.'s, stopped mentally masturbating to my huge intellect and actually got laid and have a life.

You remind me of a dark chapter in my life.

 

[John Uskglass]

Ehehe. Eurocentrism in history might not be very politically correct, but we all know it exists for a reason. Glory and respect be to the Chinese, the Inca's, the Hausa or whoever - but it's Europe that forged the global society.

Europe+Modern NA.

But you are right to some extent. Still....calling the French the most important of all time is a little extreme. If it was'nt for Mesopatamia, there'd be no civilization. If it was'nt for the Indo-aryan invasions, we'd all be maternalistic cavemen, and so forth...

Everybody knows human society never evolved faster than it did between the Renaissance and now, and by God - most of the evolution happened in France. Granted, there's also the Industrial revolution and so, but calling the French historical wussies is a crime against memoriam.

Most? Lord no. A slight majority? Maybe. It's not really a debateable topic, I suppose; we could argue this forever, and neither one of us is likely to concede...anything.

Yeah, that's just a stupid argument. If Jesus had never been born, someone else would've said what he said. If Hitler had never been born, someone else could've done what he's done. So omg, they're not important.

You have a point. Still, I'd certainly disagree with the notion that we would still be in the medieval age if not for the French.

You know, I used to be just like you once. I was once too the guy who had to say the answers of the TV-quizzes he watched out loud, would start using big words in simple situations, contantly have my finger raised in class, start meaningless discussions with my teachers, convinced I knew better, or started butting in and giving 'background information' whenever someone talked about something I knew something about. I used to do that too. Until I figured out why nobody liked me.

That phase is largely over. I actually let my teacher get away with calling Istanbul the capital of Modern Turkey.

The problem here, I think, is that I'm something of a disruptionist, and frankly I just can't, for the life of me, let someone get away with calling the French the only reason civilization advanced.

You remind me of a dark chapter in my life.

Meh. Unfair, but at least you are honest I suppose.