Thesis on FEV

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
This is a repost from a post made by on Oct-09-01. Yeah, now that's what I call gravedigging.

I'd completely forgotten I'd written this, it's interesting, but probably flawriddled. The Fallout Bible was not consulted on any of this:

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Forced Evolutionary Virus - history and description

This report is purely and solely on the FEV. It will not go deeper into underlying reasons for its creation, or its ultimate effects on the wasteland, but purely the direct reasons for its existence and direct effect on its subjects. None of this is necessarily true; it's only an analysis based on information.

History:

Sources: FEV Summary Digest, Alpha & Delta Experiment Disks, FEV Experiment Tape, Captain Maxson's Log, Captain Maxson's Personal Log, West Tech Records, Richard Grey's Audio Diary

In 2073, China became increasingly aggressive with their use of biological weapons. The countermeasure this, the Pan-Immunity Virion Project (PVP) was officially formed in September 15, 2073. The PVP was formed to counter-measure China's biggest biological weapon, the virus.

As viruses (viri) can be altered and mutated almost infinitely, the PVP needed to create a way to make the American soldiers immune to all types of viruses (both are quite obvious in its very name: Pan-Immunity (immunity against all) Virion (viruses) Project).

In all likelihood, many bases were set up to achieve this goal. One of these created the FEV and tested it on several subjects. Encouraged by the results, the higher-ups decided (against the advice of the scientists) the virus was sent to the Mariposa Military Base for testing on "volunteers". This base worked in co-operation with West Tech on its experiments.

Experiments were stopped on (or shortly before) the end of the war, not because of the war, but because there was a rebellion when the soldiers found out what was being done in the bases. The scientists were executed. The soldiers left the base and founded the Brotherhood of Steel.

The FEV remained until a party of men rediscovered it. Most of these died, but one of them, Richard Grey, had fallen into one of the FEV vats. The man's prior history is unclear and unimportant. By the FEV he was mutated into the Master, and formed the Unity.

Biological description and effects

Sources: FEV Summary Digest, FEV Experiment Tape, Vree's Experiment Tape, Alpha & Delta Experiment Tapes

FEV was batch 10-011 to 11-111 of the panimmunity virion. It was renamed FEV by Major Barnett because if its obvious nature. According to this man, the effects of the virus on individuals of any species showed the future of its evolution. This point is debatable, but not important.

FEV has several important effects. It increases the mass of the subject, with muscle mass growing the most and sensory cells being the least effected, by stimulating mitosis. This accounts for the increase of size, strength and intelligence. Mistakes as a result of mitosis are nearly non-existent, which eliminates any chance of cancer.

Immunity to any and all viri is another effect of the FEV, but this soon became less important for study as the government became more interested in the increased intelligence and strength factors.

The factoring out of any mistakes or infections by viri was done by introducing upon the subject a virus fragment consisting of ribonucleic acid (RNA) encased in a protein-lipid sheath. This virion contains a specially arranged sequence of radiated amino acids (RAA) that are capable of attaching to non-specific binding sites on deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) and force a non-replicating mitosis to occur. The resulting host cell is left with a quadruple-helix DNA structure.

In other words, FEV is a strand of RNA (encased in a protein-lipid sheath to ensure that it could be absorbed by the receiving cell and would not be attacked by the subject's immune system). (ribonucleic acid is an acid used in almost any form of life for several goals. The RNA is used for several means. This experiment was probably based upon was probably mRNA (messenger RNA), which is used to "communicate" between cells by sending out RNA to be absorbed by other cells.) The RNA disturbs the natural mitosis of the DNA strands (mitosis is simply duplication of the strands, which are then parted and made into two separate cells). In stead of natural mitosis, the RAA in the virion binds with its compatible amino acids in the DNA strands.

What you are left with is a quadruple-helix DNA cell. Half of this quadruple-helix DNA is from the subject itself; the other half is FEV-induced. The cell recognises this as normal quadruple-helix DNA, and as such splits it into two, creating a new double-helix cell out of half the quadruple-helix DNA.

Because each RAA of the FEV binds with an amino acid of the natural DNA, the FEV virus is split 50/50 into the two resulting cells. Presuming those cells have no more contact with pure FEV, the next four cells will each only have 25% of the original FEV RAA. But equally, only 25% of these cells would consist of the original DNA. The remaining 50% would be "new" duplicated amino acids, based for 50% on the RAA of FEV and for 50% on the amino acids of the original DNA. The end result would be:

25% original FEV
25% duplicated FEV
25% original DNA
25% duplicated DNA

Thus the balance remains 50/50. The RAA of FEV has been selected as to make any faults in this process impossible, which means the ratio between the FEV's RAA and "normal" DNA stays 50/50, which is why the subject retains its basic form and genetic structure, for the most part.

Writer's note: It's as good as certain that the RAA is not as infallible as was originally assumed. Human mutant subjects have lost their sterility after some time, which shows a growing ratio-difference between the FEV and original DNA, favouring the original DNA. Or, in other words, the mutants regain some of their humanity.

This process has not been shown to happen anywhere else in the subject's body. This may indicate that the fault in the RAA lies in the haploid nature of human reproductive cells. Further research on this subject would be necessary to prove or disprove this.

These are the genotypical effects of FEV. The phenotypical effects are derived from these. The increase in cells means physical growth, the increase in receiver-cells mean increased intelligence. The non-natural nature of the FEV virion has the basic effect as to change the phenotypical appearance of the subject. For instance, a human's skin has been known to turn tones of grey. These are slight and unimportant differences, though.

Writer's note: Insufficient information is available on the exact effect of FEV on several cells, such as sensory cells and normally non-replicating cells (including brain cells at an age where they normally stop replicating, presumably) are not available as most attention was paid to external effects. I will thus make no further notes on these, for fear of making too many mistakes.

Biological description and effects: Experiments on several non-human forms of life

Sources: FEV Experiment Tape, FEV Summary digest

Singe-celled animals and/or non-choroplast (batch 10-011): Quickening of mitosis and the effect of a quadruple-helix. Basal metabolism remains the same. Immunity against infection and radiation exceeded all expectations.

Single-celled plants and/or choroplast bacteria: No effect. The choroplasts in the cells of the bacteria and plants reject the virion. Further experiments on choroplast life forms (plants and some bacteria) ceased.

Inquiry: If the one-celled animal known as the Euglena were infected with FEV and then exposed to light (when exposed to light, the Euglena forms choroplasts), would it reject the FEV? Failure to look into this as an "antidote" for FEV apparent.

Flatworms: 28% increase in size, immunity to 39 separate viral contagions. The flatworms became incapable of sexual reproduction and could only reproduce asexually.

Insects: Unclear. The experiments with the insects were less successful than the experiments with the flatworms. It can be presumed that insects have at least partial resistance to FEV.

Note: There were no experiments with sponges, hollow animals, round worms, ring worms, molluscs, echinoderms or the vertebrates animals known as birds, amphibians, fish or reptiles, or the arthropods known as spiders, lobsters or centipedes. The jump from insects to mammals strikes me as curious.

White mice: 31% increase in size, largest increase in muscle tissue, liver, heart and kidneys. Increase in intelligence noted.

Rabbits: Increased brain activity after 3.2 seconds. Size increase, as well as increased aggression and posturing noticed. Brain tissue showed increased dendritic connection, especially in the limbic system and frontal cortex.

Racoons (batch 11-011: 43% increased mitotic cycle efficiency): Expected size increase occurred. Behavioural tests showed increased intelligence and dexterity by 19 points on the Schuler-Kapp index. Subjects dispatched after some escaped, two unaccounted for.

Dogs (batch 11-011a): Nearly immediate growth. Increased aggressiveness, no significant intelligence increase. Subjects terminated after 14 weeks.

Chimpanzees (batch 11-111: crossover between 11-011 and 11-011a): Unprecedented increase in growth and immunity levels. Immunity to cancer. Extreme aggressiveness. Subjects terminated.

There are no notes on increased intelligence with the chimpanzees. It is unknown if the crossover between 11-011 and 11-011a was successful in removing the apparent fault in 11-011a. It is also unknown if there was actually a fault in 11-011a or if something in the neural system of dogs and chimpanzees prevented brain stimulation.

Size increase has been noted to be up to 60% in the final tests.

No records of the effects of FEV on hormones or blood cells have been recovered.

Biological description and effects: Experiments on humans

Sources: Vree's Experiment Tape, Alpha & Delta Experiment Tapes, Richard Grey's Audio Diary

Statistics of the mutant dissected by Vree:

Height: 3.2 meters
Mass: 363.21 kg
Gender: Indeterminate
Skin Colour: Predominantly grey with tints of green under the current lighting system. Uncertain if this is due to decay or exposure in the wastelands. Note: The skin is extremely though with respect to scalpels.

Mass Breakdown:
Muscle Mass: 77.41%
Bone Mass: 10.23%
Fat Mass: 3.02%
Tissue Mass: 9.34%

The effects of FEV on humans are apparently much the same as those on animals. Increased mass, especially to muscle mass has been noted. The sterility noted with the flatworm experiments would explain the indeterminate gender. Aggressiveness probably made further procreation experiments impossible. Increased size of neural and synaptic transmitters noted. This results in heightened reflexes, as noticed with earlier experiments.

Mitosis occurs at 15% quicker than with normal humans. Recessive genes were removed from the DNA to make it more effective. The same applies to RNA.

Life expectancy increased by 10%. Intelligence increased by 30%.

Richard Grey's journal makes it apparent that FEV can be ingested by simply "dipping" the person in a vat of the goods. Whether this method was used earlier or if it used to be injected into the subjects is unknown. This was probably an unknown side effect, though, as sensitivity of the human skin to the virus has several disadvantages.

Richard experiments with something very knew. He dips a dog and a rat at the same time. The increased growth rate probably meant the masses of the dog and rat collided, and as both their DNA's are half-FEV based, they were not completely incompatible, allowing for a merger.

He also ingests a human being. As he described it himself, it becomes apparent he also gains the person's mind with it. Or, in other words: Super-mutants with the extreme overdose Richard received can steal knowledge from a person by ingesting him. Richard also describes a neuro-link with a computer, which shows an incredible increase in intelligence and adaptability of his neuro-system.

Grey also succeeds in making another intelligent mutant (and then ingesting him). This human's radiation count was much lower than that of the others. This will be discussed later.

Richard obviously turns mad afterwards as the many minds inside himself turn him to insanity. He wanders off and is of no more important to this study.

Biological description and effects: Radiation and FEV

Sources: Vree's Experiment Tape, Richard Grey's Audio Diary

Radiation has a definitive effect on FEV. This becomes apparent from the fact that Vree's mutant had less brain mess and a radiation count of up to 12 rad, while Grey had a definitive increase of intelligence and less radiation. The same goes for one of Grey's test subjects.

The reason for this is obvious. The radiation mutated the human subject's cells, making them partially immune to the effects of FEV, which had an RAA structure based upon non-mutated humans (and other life forms).

Or, to put it in other words, radiation causes a human's DNA to "alter". Several of the amino acids in the DNA's double-helix strands alter, and since there's only one possible match for each of the known amino acids, it can no longer completely bind with the RAA of the FEV.

This also explains why only the brains are involved. Each of the cells of a human with a certain function has a different type of DNA. Apparently, the DNA of the human brain cell is altered in such a way as to reject the FEV, while the effects on the DNA of other human cells are such as to not reject FEV or (perhaps) even increase the effects it have.

The question remains if the same goes for all types of creatures. Presumably, the more the creature's genetic structure differs from our, the more chance there is for it to have an intelligence increase as an effect of the FEV instead of a decrease. For instance, a radiated monkey would probably also become less intelligent, while a mutated ringworm might gain in intelligence.

And I must also note that FEV might not be as immune to radiation as the creator's assumed. While the subjects have been proven to be immune to high levels of radiation, prolonged exposure to radiation might explain the mutation in FEV that removes their sterility. Again, this might be related to the haploid nature of reproductive cells. Further investigation on this subject advised.

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I believe this entire thing is still riddled with countless mistakes, errors and the like. Someone take out the historical and scientific errors AND KEEL THEM!
 
Super-mutants with the extreme overdose Richard received can steal knowledge from a person by ingesting him. Richard also describes a neuro-link with a computer, which shows an incredible increase in intelligence and adaptability of his neuro-system.
I'd always thought Grey was just a special case; FEV just really really liked him. Although he probably did float around in the vat longer than any of his later subjects did (did he fall unconcious after he fell in?) Could be a combination of the two, the overdose and him just being special. Brings an interesting thought to mind, though, that he's more FEV than human.

While the subjects have been proven to be immune to high levels of radiation, prolonged exposure to radiation might explain the mutation in FEV that removes their sterility. Again, this might be related to the haploid nature of reproductive cells.
The Bible mentions that Marcus "getting his juices flowing again" was just a poorly thought-out joke and super-mutants are supposed to be permanently steril.

I seem to recall some experiment on something that resulted in increased fertility. Maybe not, but it's certain the various FEV-mutated creatures inhabiting the dark corners of the California wastes have no trouble reproducing. The giant ants are especially interesting, seeing as FEV supposedly had limited effect on insects, and the trace ammounts of FEV in California's atmosphere would be much less than the concentrations used in the lab. Radiation could have contributed to their increased susceptibility, I suppose.

Anyone know what the Wanamingos were mutated from? I believe the Bible says they were the results of FEV experiments, apparently in extremely high doses considering they bare no resemblance to any other animal on Earth. The same can be said of the Master's pets, I suppose, but the Wanamingos seem more...consistent, logical, refined maybe, than the bizarre floaters and crap that the Master made through (probably) that whole mixing-animals-together-in-the-vats business.
 
Radish said:
Super-mutants with the extreme overdose Richard received can steal knowledge from a person by ingesting him. Richard also describes a neuro-link with a computer, which shows an incredible increase in intelligence and adaptability of his neuro-system.
I'd always thought Grey was just a special case; FEV just really really liked him. Although he probably did float around in the vat longer than any of his later subjects did (did he fall unconcious after he fell in?) Could be a combination of the two, the overdose and him just being special. Brings an interesting thought to mind, though, that he's more FEV than human.

Grey was a special case, because of the low radiation levels, yeah...Hasn't been much more experimenting with individuals with low radiation levels.

Radish said:
The Bible mentions that Marcus "getting his juices flowing again" was just a poorly thought-out joke and super-mutants are supposed to be permanently steril.

As I mentioned above, I did not consult the Bible.

The game's not going to either, on the official level, so why should I? :P

Radish said:
I seem to recall some experiment on something that resulted in increased fertility. Maybe not, but it's certain the various FEV-mutated creatures inhabiting the dark corners of the California wastes have no trouble reproducing. The giant ants are especially interesting, seeing as FEV supposedly had limited effect on insects, and the trace ammounts of FEV in California's atmosphere would be much less than the concentrations used in the lab. Radiation could have contributed to their increased susceptibility, I suppose.

Well, honestly, the giant ants are just a reference to 50's (?) cult classic "Them!" Not too well thought-out, since they contradict the earlier statement that FEV has little effect on insects. Ah well.

Radish said:
Anyone know what the Wanamingos were mutated from? I believe the Bible says they were the results of FEV experiments, apparently in extremely high doses considering they bare no resemblance to any other animal on Earth. The same can be said of the Master's pets, I suppose, but the Wanamingos seem more...consistent, logical, refined maybe, than the bizarre floaters and crap that the Master made through (probably) that whole mixing-animals-together-in-the-vats business.

Since I'm not using the Bible, I can't speculate on it.

That said, Bible or no, the wanamingos are pretty undefined all around. It's never really clear what they are. Good thing, too, they're stupid.
 
Dear Kharn!

I now swear on all that is holy that I will KILL YOU for resurrecting the monstrous FEV discussions we had in the old.

Hugs and kisses,
Me.
 
APTYP said:
Dear Kharn!

I now swear on all that is holy that I will KILL YOU for resurrecting the monstrous FEV discussions we had in the old.

Hugs and kisses,
Me.

*makes faces at APTYP*

It wasn't as monstrous as the bozar vs. vindicator thing. Now resurrecting that...that would be a crime.
 
Mind if I punch some holes in your theory?

"The factoring out of any mistakes or infections by viri was done by introducing upon the subject a virus fragment consisting of ribonucleic acid (RNA) encased in a protein-lipid sheath."
---This statement makes no sense. A virus fragment encoded by a viri (which I assume you mean viruses? anyway...) means that the virus is incomplete, which in technical terms means it cannot replicate on its own. The protein sheath is technically the envelope. By definition enveloped viruses cannot exist in the air, only encapsulated ones can. HIV is an enveloped virus, Ebola is encapsulated. Please make a distinction as to whether the virus is a single stranded (ssRNA) or double stranded virus (dsRNA). If single stranded, is it positive or negative sense?

"This virion contains a specially arranged sequence of radiated amino acids (RAA) that are capable of attaching to non-specific binding sites on deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) and force a non-replicating mitosis to occur. "
---Okay, so the virus contains an irradiated protein that attaches to the grooves in the DNA sequence. Minor or major groove? Are you saying that the irradiated protein is a transcriptional regulator or something else? If a transcription factor what motif does it use- zinc finger? helix-turn-helix? what? You could also declare that it binds the histones and alters the DNA accessability in that way.

"The resulting host cell is left with a quadruple-helix DNA structure." ---This is the kicker. I understand that this is sci-fi, but you give no reasoning for the quadruple strandedness. Dose the virus encode some weird freaky-ass polymerase that somehow creates a quarduple strand? This is the most plausible arugment you could make. Leaving aside for a moment the fact that a quadruple helix is not possible in a normal sense since the bases are the wrong size,and the turns ae too tight for this to wrap up, it still leaves me wondering what the extra pair of acids encodes? Does it simply mimic the template strand of the DNA? Or is there a completely new pair of strands that are complimentarily paired,and leaves the originals alone? For that matter, how does complimentary pairing occur between four strands? They are designed to pair, not 'quadruple'or something. Anyway...

"This experiment was probably based upon was probably mRNA (messenger RNA), which is used to "communicate" between cells by sending out RNA to be absorbed by other cells.)"
---This is incorrect. mRNA is transcribed from DNA, which is translated into protein by the ribosomes. It is not a intercellular process, but rather intracellular. This is also known as the central dogma of molecular biology.

"The RNA disturbs the natural mitosis of the DNA strands (mitosis is simply duplication of the strands, which are then parted and made into two separate cells)."
---Impossible but intriguing....moving on.

"In stead of natural mitosis, the RAA in the virion binds with its compatible amino acids in the DNA strands."
---Be careful with your words. DNA encodes the four nucleic acids adenine, cytosine, thymine and guanine. Protein is encoded by the twenty amino acids. You are describing complimentary base pairing. You need to describe how the RNA is then turned into DNA to form the quadruple helix of DNA.


"Because each RAA of the FEV binds with an amino acid of the natural DNA"
---Again be precise in your language. Nucleic acid, not amino acid.

"The remaining 50% would be "new" duplicated amino acids, based for 50% on the RAA of FEV and for 50% on the amino acids of the original DNA."
---This statement implies that one host strand binds to one RAA strand. How is this accomplshed from a quadruple helix? It also implies that the RAA is is complimentary to the host strand. Or do you propose that the RAA strand changes the bases (nucleic acid bases remember) of the host strand? If so, give a mechanism, as this is not natural either.

"Writer's note: Insufficient information is available on the exact effect of FEV on several cells, such as sensory cells and normally non-replicating cells (including brain cells at an age where they normally stop replicating, presumably) are not available as most attention was paid to external effects. I will thus make no further notes on these, for fear of making too many mistakes."
---Good idea, but your letting yourself off too easy. If you intend on putting together such a preposterous (yet truly imaginative) article, why not go all the way.

"Mitosis occurs at 15% quicker than with normal humans. Recessive genes were removed from the DNA to make it more effective. The same applies to RNA."
---Are you saying that FEV can edit host DNA to weed out recessive traits? Okay, but remember that sickle cell anemia is bad by itself, but provides a partial resistence to Malaria, which is why it has not been selected against in evolution. Recessive traits are a primary evolutionary mechanism, and their loss would create a population much more homologous and less able to survive major diseases. Yes, I realize that FEV does away with disease in mutants, but you need to be more precise in your language.

I'll stop here. I give this criticism not to make fun of you, but to help make a more scientifically sound argument for FEV and its effects. FYI I am a grad student in Mol. Biology, and work with viruses (ssRNA ones) every day, so I do know a little about them.
 
Murdoch said:
Mind if I punch some holes in your theory?

Only if you don't mind using goddamned quotes. That message was hard to read.

---This statement makes no sense. A virus fragment encoded by a viri (which I assume you mean viruses? anyway...) means that the virus is incomplete, which in technical terms means it cannot replicate on its own. The protein sheath is technically the envelope. By definition enveloped viruses cannot exist in the air, only encapsulated ones can. HIV is an enveloped virus, Ebola is encapsulated. Please make a distinction as to whether the virus is a single stranded (ssRNA) or double stranded virus (dsRNA). If single stranded, is it positive or negative sense?

Oh, right, my usage of fragment is off there.

And I was thinking single strand, what were you thinking?

---Okay, so the virus contains an irradiated protein that attaches to the grooves in the DNA sequence. Minor or major groove? Are you saying that the irradiated protein is a transcriptional regulator or something else? If a transcription factor what motif does it use- zinc finger? helix-turn-helix? what? You could also declare that it binds the histones and alters the DNA accessability in that way.

That was just...all way beyond me. You decide ;)

---This is the kicker. I understand that this is sci-fi, but you give no reasoning for the quadruple strandedness. Dose the virus encode some weird freaky-ass polymerase that somehow creates a quarduple strand? This is the most plausible arugment you could make. Leaving aside for a moment the fact that a quadruple helix is not possible in a normal sense since the bases are the wrong size,and the turns ae too tight for this to wrap up, it still leaves me wondering what the extra pair of acids encodes? Does it simply mimic the template strand of the DNA? Or is there a completely new pair of strands that are complimentarily paired,and leaves the originals alone? For that matter, how does complimentary pairing occur between four strands? They are designed to pair, not 'quadruple'or something. Anyway...

Actually, I was just thinking two double helix-strands, not four strands attached to one another, but just two double helices, like occurs in normal cell-replicating.

---This is incorrect. mRNA is transcribed from DNA, which is translated into protein by the ribosomes. It is not a intercellular process, but rather intracellular. This is also known as the central dogma of molecular biology.

Oh, my bad. So how should I put it?


"The RNA disturbs the natural mitosis of the DNA strands (mitosis is simply duplication of the strands, which are then parted and made into two separate cells)."
---Impossible but intriguing....moving on.

Yeah, but at that point I hit a simple snag; the way mutant's bodies spontaneously grow is, as far as I know, pretty much impossible. So to describe it, I needed an impossible process to occur, in this case accelerated mitosis, which isn't even completely impossible, is it?

---Be careful with your words. DNA encodes the four nucleic acids adenine, cytosine, thymine and guanine. Protein is encoded by the twenty amino acids. You are describing complimentary base pairing. You need to describe how the RNA is then turned into DNA to form the quadruple helix of DNA.

Well, there's an interesting quandry. I hadn't really thought about that. Hmmm...

---This statement implies that one host strand binds to one RAA strand. How is this accomplshed from a quadruple helix? It also implies that the RAA is is complimentary to the host strand. Or do you propose that the RAA strand changes the bases (nucleic acid bases remember) of the host strand? If so, give a mechanism, as this is not natural either.

The quadruple helix, or let's just call it dual double helices (I have too many Dutch terms for these things in my head, which makes it a bit hard to translate) are a result of the binding of the FEV RAA to the original DNA.

The details of the RAA binding completely to the DNA are, on hindsight, indeed a bit cloudly, but...(read on)

---Good idea, but your letting yourself off too easy. If you intend on putting together such a preposterous (yet truly imaginative) article, why not go all the way.

Because there are no resources on this. There's no data about how FEV affects these cells available from the Fallout holodiscs, as far as I can remember and I'm staying within the Fallout story, so to speak (hence also no reference to the Bible)

---Are you saying that FEV can edit host DNA to weed out recessive traits? Okay, but remember that sickle cell anemia is bad by itself, but provides a partial resistence to Malaria, which is why it has not been selected against in evolution. Recessive traits are a primary evolutionary mechanism, and their loss would create a population much more homologous and less able to survive major diseases. Yes, I realize that FEV does away with disease in mutants, but you need to be more precise in your language.

I did in fact realise this, and the mutant populations aren't exactly an indication to the contrary, like you yourself said.

I'll stop here. I give this criticism not to make fun of you, but to help make a more scientifically sound argument for FEV and its effects. FYI I am a grad student in Mol. Biology, and work with viruses (ssRNA ones) every day, so I do know a little about them.

And for your information, I never advanced beyond basic high school biology, so I know nothing about it. Plus this article is pretty old, so don't worry about hurting my feelings by burning it down.

In fact, help is more than welcome. The thing was written up mostly out of fun, to give some kind of pseudo-scientific (most of Fallout is, of course, pseudo-science) description of the mutation process. If you want to give a hand in sharpening it up, please do so.
 
If you like, I'll help, and sorry about the quotes. I am not sure how to do what you did in the above post.

I problem is I do not know exactly how much is reported in the holodiscs and how much you conjured up. Also, I am not sure about the link between radiation and FEV. For instance, am I right to say that FEV started out non-radioactive? And as such mutated Gray into a more intelligent person? But once FEV was radioactive it mutated people into less intelligent?

Or is it the patient? Radioactive patients become less intelligent upon FEV exposure because their innate radiation retards the FEV's effect? Non-radioactive subjects do not have this problem, and as such can be altered by FEV in the manner intended? This seems to be right, and fit in with the reason they needed the Vault Dweller for dipping.

Or even scarier, is it a combination of a "hot" or not FEV and a "hot" or not patient? Hot meaning radioactive, of course.

In any case, I think the story could involve something along these lines:

FEV, is an encapsulated dsRNA virus. This make the virus able to travel airborne, and both strands can interact with the host, forming the four helix system. One strand of FEV is complimentary to one strand of host DNA. Once FEV enters the cell, it forms two helices, each one have one host DNA strand and one FEV RNA strand.

A virally encoded RNA-dependent DNA-polymerase (enzyme which copies RNA into DNA, is also only encoded by viruses, since DNA organisms like humans have no reason to encode this. The wording is important to science weenies like myself too) then uses the RNA strand as a template, and re-writes the host DNA into the sequence of the FEV, removing any and all recessive traits like sickle cell anemia, huntington's disease. But it does not change all traits, allowing recombination a chance to "evolve" a better (super?) mutant. More on this later.

You now have a host with two copies of dsRNA. Since the host cannot recognize this for many reasons, a RNA dependent RNA polymerase must also be included in the FEV virion. This would either A) transform the dsRNA into normal dsDNA, or B) use the RNA templates to synthesize completely new dsDNA. A) is the less plausible methods, but so is all of this.

B) affords you extra opportunities, too. Using B you could incorporate recombination in the DNA synthesis. This recombination could involve all four RNA strands in the host, and do account for many of the resistances and changes evident in the mutants. Say the enzyme recombines the four strands randomly (which is what basically happens during mitosis, BTW). It then uses the two sets of complimentary strands to form the final pair of dsDNA molecules.

Here's where you incorporate the unusual growth: Because the FEV causes this amazing and drastic change in the host, it causes the host to reject the two sets of chromosomes.

BUT, instead of apoptosing (committing suicide) like normal cells would, the rejection results in a spontaneous and rapid proliferative burst. Any sense of order to the burst is minimized, since no cellular controls exist for such an event. As such the event is much like a cancerous metastasis. But unlike cancer which enters a non-stop proliferation that kills you, the unique nature of FEV action makes runoff growth impossible, and it is stopped after the initial, first round of growth.

The result is a mutant. This mutant seems to double in size rapidly. Here we must set aside the fact that the cells do not have enough energy to do this doubling, unless FEV vats contain special nutrients that give the cells enough energy to all doubling in a matter of minutes. Since this is all bullshit anyway, lets say that it does.

The mutant cells are mottled grey, and have improved resistances for three reasons. First the mutations normal in any cell division are suppressed by FEV's action, reducing 'bad' mutations. Second, other things in the vat solution itself are present during FEV infection and have myriad unique functions. Third, other proteins and stuff in the virion add information to the final DNA sequence

For instance, FEV modified DNA and proteins cause epithelial (skin) cells to have extra structural proteins, imparting a thick, armor like, but ugly grey mottling. FEV also uses proteins from bacteria like radiodurans species, that have incredible innate radiation resistance to alter the makeup of the cell, making it resistent to radiation. The same thing could be done with antibiotic genes, and antiviral genes to impart high disease resistance.

As for as intelligence, you could say that in non-irradiated FEV infected people, FEV jumpstarts stem cell specific factors that allow the normally quiescent (non-dividing) neurons to also undergo the above spontaneous growth. But in a host with radiation damage FEV cannot jumpstart stem cell factors so no intelligence boost. The intelligence loss in pre-irradiated subjects can be attributed to more mass per neuron, so they are overall dumber. The reason FEV does not otherwise act on neurons is because of their terminally quiescent state does not respond to the FEV like the rest of the body.

I have not incorporated radioactive FEV into this thing, but could if that is what the tapes said.

whew. I'm in the middle of alot of assignments and my mind is full of this shit. Sometimes it comes spewing out in things like this.

What do you think Kharn? I realize that much of this may be above, well, most people's heads. If you would like additional explanation please ask.
 
Wow, this is interesting, even if lot of it goes over my head. One question though: if the FEV virus increases the amount of neurons in the brain, then for those neurons to be of any use, they would have to establish new connections with previously existing ones, right? Wouldn't tha lead to at least partial amnesia and loss of skills?
 
Crowley said:
Wow, this is interesting, even if lot of it goes over my head. One question though: if the FEV virus increases the amount of neurons in the brain, then for those neurons to be of any use, they would have to establish new connections with previously existing ones, right? Wouldn't tha lead to at least partial amnesia and loss of skills?

This explains why mutants are considered stupid or why most of them (in fo1) had amnesia
 
Kharn said:
Well, honestly, the giant ants are just a reference to 50's (?) cult classic "Them!" Not too well thought-out, since they contradict the earlier statement that FEV has little effect on insects. Ah well.

MCA was a little too FEV EXPLAINS IT ALL when some things should be attributed to high levels of radiation causing mutation. After all, they're called radscorpions, not FEVscorpions.

But seriously, the problem with FEV explaining everything is that it makes the area around Fallout and Fallout 2.. too unique. If FEV did everything, then the rest of the world wouldn't be filled with all those lovely critters we see in Fallout and Fallout 2. There wouldn't be any mutant ants, spore plant like things, etc.
 
Zoe said:
Crowley said:
Wow, this is interesting, even if lot of it goes over my head. One question though: if the FEV virus increases the amount of neurons in the brain, then for those neurons to be of any use, they would have to establish new connections with previously existing ones, right? Wouldn't tha lead to at least partial amnesia and loss of skills?

This explains why mutants are considered stupid or why most of them (in fo1) had amnesia

Yip.

MCA was a little too FEV EXPLAINS IT ALL when some things should be attributed to high levels of radiation causing mutation. After all, they're called radscorpions, not FEVscorpions.

But seriously, the problem with FEV explaining everything is that it makes the area around Fallout and Fallout 2.. too unique. If FEV did everything, then the rest of the world wouldn't be filled with all those lovely critters we see in Fallout and Fallout 2. There wouldn't be any mutant ants, spore plant like things, etc.

Yip. One of the reasons I'm not the biggest fan of the Fallout Bible...
 
Saint_Proverbius said:
MCA was a little too FEV EXPLAINS IT ALL when some things should be attributed to high levels of radiation causing mutation. After all, they're called radscorpions, not FEVscorpions.
Not really, they would (most likely) have been named by the ordinary people, who had no knowledge of FEV (and a limited, but still present, knowledge of radiation). So even if the Radscorpions were made by FEV, they (most likely) wouldn't be called that.
Of course, this doesn't fit in with the effects of FEV on insects (and I assume Arachnids), so Radiation is a more probable cause of their mutation.
 
Fallout is not a real world. It's not complicated enough to justify you writing up complex theories about FEV affecting this and that.

Sometimes people love a fantasy world way too much, so when they see inconsistencies between it and the real world, they feel threatened.
How can a game this good be so wrong at so many things? That doesn't sound right! Wait, maybe the developers who made Fallout so good had an explanation for these glaring inconsistencies? Hell, I bet that's what happened! Wow now I don't feel threatened anymore! Let's see now what could explain the giant insects?..
I got it! It can't be radiation because that's not how it works in the real world, so it must be FEV! It HAS to be FEV, it couldn't be anything else because the only other explanation -- radiation -- is unrealistic! God damn developers sure are a smart bunch, I would never think they had enough time to spend hours and hours thinking about the world design when they had a deadline to meet! Only a genius can do that, and that's what Fallout developers are -- naturally.

PS:
Grow up, morons.
 
APTYP said:
Grow up, morons.

If only you would follow the advice you give yourself.

You do realise maturity includes the ability to indulge in things you like, even if they're childish?

'k
 
No... I never realized that. Wow thanks Kharn, I'm sorry my post made you feel threatened so that you were compelled to respond with a post of your own implying that it is I in fact immature moron who doesn't realize a basic truth of what maturity really is!

If you really believe that maturity means doing whatever you like, you need to open your eyes and do some growing up yourself.
 
APTYP said:
No... I never realized that. Wow thanks Kharn, I'm sorry my post made you feel threatened so that you were compelled to respond with a post of your own implying that it is I in fact immature moron who doesn't realize a basic truth of what maturity really is!

You do realise you're now implying that your reply in this thread was because you somehow felt threatened? Obviously you had some motive for that post, though it escapes me...

APTYP said:
If you really believe that maturity means doing whatever you like, you need to open your eyes and do some growing up yourself.

Did I say that? No. Thanks.

Why the fuck are you still on NMA if you hate what it became so much, APTYP?

I can remember you used to be an ok dude...ah well
 
Kharn said:
You do realise you're now implying that your reply in this thread was because you somehow felt threatened? Obviously you had some motive for that post, though it escapes me...

Of course. I was very hurt by your patronizing tone, even more so because I wasn't talking to you.

Did I say that? No. Thanks.

Did I say 'implied'? Yes. Thanks.

Why the fuck are you still on NMA if you hate what it became so much, APTYP?

Up to this evening I thought there are still smart people left on NMA. Then welsh starts another flurry of his hippy threads, people start reiterating whatever they said in a thread directly below, blatantly ignoring subtle hints that maybe they don't have a fucking clue, and now you come up to me with this patronizing tone of yours, like I'm some fucking n00b who wandered in two months ago begging to get my ass kicked by OMFG VETERAN MOD KHARN THE BETRAYER.
 
:shock:

I know people have bad days now and then, but, geez...

Could this thread be closed? Nobody needs a flame war!
 
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