They Would Never....FPS

[Mattaus]

Think about it, how can you have the real role-playing, if you have a reflex-based, first-person view?

Yes agreed, Ive been 'roleplaying PnP' and 'roleplaying computer games' for years and Fallout is one of the closest to a PnP in a video game ive come across.. as its based on what your 'character' can do - rather than how fast you can twitch your index finger etc.

 

[Good Soup]

The point isn't that mechanics make a game, but that mechanics *are* part of the essential design of Fallout.

Think about it, how can you have the real role-playing, if you have a reflex-based, first-person view?

I get what you're saying here. To think about it:
If I was playing Fallout with a first-person view... It'd feel like I'm playing some weird Doom or Quake game with RPG elements to it, and not Fallout.
I don't care about isometric all the way, but at LEAST make it 3rd person.

 

[RPGenius]

The trailer made me so happy about 3. And then I saw thatit was footage of the engine. It looks FPS to me .

 

[Sander]

The trailer made me so happy about 3. And then I saw thatit was footage of the engine. It looks FPS to me .

Urgh.
It's in-engine footage, *not* in-game footage.

 

[RPGenius]

I know. But still with the scaring me. Becuase everything was all so good, until I turned out the game would like like that. It looked very good as an intro movie though. I hope they're not the Brotherhood, mind.

 

[raphegalland]

Rumor has it that Bethesda is using the Gamebryo Engine, wich is the same engine they used in Oblivion.

I can't confirm that tho, as I was told by a friend.

But I'd say.. So much for sticking to the established genre for Fallout. We all know what happened when they stepped outside the genre with BoS.

Funny thing, Bethesda themselves learned that lesson themselves, when they messed with the established genre for their "The Elder Scrolls" games.

Arena was a wordly FPS RPG. Sold nicely and set the standard.
Daggerfall was a wordly(huge) FPS RPG, and sold immensely, and really put the foundation of TES in concrete.
Battlespire was a non worldy FPS wannabe RPG, and did horribly, they had moved away from the TES genre.
Redguard, was a 3'rd person action game, wich sold so bad most TES players didn't hear about it, and moved them even further away from the TES genre.

See now? Bethesda themselves, learned that moving a game line away from its roots, was a BIG no no. Then they went back to their roots...

Morrowind came out as a wordly FPS RPG, and it became an instant classic bestseller.


Makes you wonder if they maybe hired some noobs that didn't learn the "genre roots" lesson that the veterans of Bethesda learned.

 

[quietfanatic]

They will be Brotherhood, otherwise they wouldn't include the symbol (there is teasing and then there is stupidity).

We know they are using Gamebryo, but I don't think that gives us that much information. Do some research and use SpellCheck.

Genre is a rather loose term. Picking out a limited number of elements to define a genre is not too useful either, especially when those elements are not widely agreed upon, or even defined.

You could argue that they could believe certain characteristics are appealing to the average gamer, even neglecting continuity, so Fallout setting + 'worldly?' + 'RPG?' + FPS = teh win

That is my fear.

 

[Sander]

Rumor has it that Bethesda is using the Gamebryo Engine, wich is the same engine they used in Oblivion.

I can't confirm that tho, as I was told by a friend.

That's a fact, but it's hardly relevant. That same engine has also been used in Civilisation IV, for instance.

But I'd say.. So much for sticking to the established genre for Fallout. We all know what happened when they stepped outside the genre with BoS.

Funny thing, Bethesda themselves learned that lesson themselves, when they messed with the established genre for their "The Elder Scrolls" games.

Arena was a wordly FPS RPG. Sold nicely and set the standard.
Daggerfall was a wordly(huge) FPS RPG, and sold immensely, and really put the foundation of TES in concrete.
Battlespire was a non worldy FPS wannabe RPG, and did horribly, they had moved away from the TES genre.
Redguard, was a 3'rd person action game, wich sold so bad most TES players didn't hear about it, and moved them even further away from the TES genre.

See now? Bethesda themselves, learned that moving a game line away from its roots, was a BIG no no. Then they went back to their roots...

Morrowind came out as a wordly FPS RPG, and it became an instant classic bestseller.


Makes you wonder if they maybe hired some noobs that didn't learn the "genre roots" lesson that the veterans of Bethesda learned.

Err...again: we don't know anything about the 'genre' it's going to be. Nothing here even suggests it's a First-person shooter.

 

[Corsair65]

It's an FPS. Well. That's not ideal, but it's not as bad as it could be. Let's face it, Fallout's combat system was optimized for small-scale fights with only a few combatants, no more than ten. After that, it got really annoying. As this is set in the ruins of D.C., there are likely to be a considerably higher number of non-coms and combatants, making a system like the original a nightmare. Picture starting a fight in San Francisco times ten.

 

[Killian Darkwater]

I would be happy to see F3 as an FPS. As long as it keeps its fallout theme I am ok with it. In fact I think that it would attract some of the newer generation of gamers if it was a FPS. It might even show up HL2 and DOOM3. They half to do it right though or else it's just another shoot um' up BANG BANG games. There has to be problem solving in it and exploration it can't be all shooting.

 

[Darkhart]

It could work. A first- or third-person view doesn't necessarily dictate that a game *must* have twitch or reflex based gameplay. From what I can tell from my brief time with Fallout 1+2, the essential and unique elements - Karma, the quest structure, SPECIAL - aren't dependent on the game's visual format.

 

[Sander]

It could work. A first- or third-person view doesn't necessarily dictate that a game *must* have twitch or reflex based gameplay.

Real-time (even with pause) is twitch-based, though.

From what I can tell from my brief time with Fallout 1+2, the essential and unique elements - Karma, the quest structure, SPECIAL - aren't dependent on the game's visual format.

Yeah, because certainly the gameplay isn't a part of the game.
What?

I would be happy to see F3 as an FPS. As long as it keeps its fallout theme I am ok with it. In fact I think that it would attract some of the newer generation of gamers if it was a FPS. It might even show up HL2 and DOOM3. They half to do it right though or else it's just another shoot um' up BANG BANG games. There has to be problem solving in it and exploration it can't be all shooting.

So, essentially, you'd like a game set in the Fallout universe to be an FPS.
Neat. Just don't call it Fallout 3, since it lacks the core gameplay of the original games.

 

[Darkhart]

It could work. A first- or third-person view doesn't necessarily dictate that a game *must* have twitch or reflex based gameplay.

Real-time (even with pause) is twitch-based, though.

So you're calling Baldur's Gate and thus all the Infinity Engine games 'twitch-based'?

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Definitely. If you have bad reflexes, it's easier to fail in combat.

 

[Sander]

So you're calling Baldur's Gate and thus all the Infinity Engine games 'twitch-based'?

No, I'm calling them boring-ass movie-style combat.
And twitch-based because of the pause, yes. 'Oh my god, my dude is almost dead *twitch spacebar*).

 

[Darkhart]

In the Infinity engine you can enable an auto-pause for the start of every combat round for your characters. This is similar (albeit not the same) to classic turn-based combat.

Wouldn't this feature, maybe along with the option to slow down combat somehow (perhaps by increasing the length of combat rounds - BG's rounds were only 6 seconds long), account for any players slow reflexes?

 

[Sander]

In the Infinity engine you can enable an auto-pause for the start of every combat round for your characters. This is similar (albeit not the same) to classic turn-based combat.

Wouldn't this feature, maybe along with the option to slow down combat somehow (perhaps by increasing the length of combat rounds - BG's rounds were only 6 seconds long), account for any players slow reflexes?

Ehm, yeah, theoretically. But no one wants to pause every round in that system, because it's absolutely useless to do so.

 

[Darkhart]

In the Infinity engine you can enable an auto-pause for the start of every combat round for your characters. This is similar (albeit not the same) to classic turn-based combat.

Wouldn't this feature, maybe along with the option to slow down combat somehow (perhaps by increasing the length of combat rounds - BG's rounds were only 6 seconds long), account for any players slow reflexes?

Ehm, yeah, theoretically. But no one wants to pause every round in that system, because it's absolutely useless to do so.

True. Making it work would take a lot of adjustments.

I'm pretty sure that this kind of system wouldn't break a Fallout game, but Bethsoft probably just won't take the time to implement it properly.

 

[Killian Darkwater]

I don't think it will be a "twitch" FPS. I think it will be more based on the way you play. If you run in there and start blowing off mutants heads and dodging bullets I think it would be but if you took your time and carefully sniped or ninja'd them it would not be a twitch. SO what I am getting too is it's all up to the players style of combat. Nevertheless that dose not get past the whole real time combat...

 

[Sander]

I don't think it will be a "twitch" FPS. I think it will be more based on the way you play. If you run in there and start blowing off mutants heads and dodging bullets I think it would be but if you took your time and carefully sniped or ninja'd them it would not be a twitch. SO what I am getting too is it's all up to the players style of combat. Nevertheless that dose not get past the whole real time combat...

Ehm, yeah, bullshit.
The fact that it is real-time 'with pause' means that it is twitch-based in everything, but your aiming. Unless it somehow actually works differently from how they've described it.

Here's a hint: in Fallout, you got ample time to think over everything you did in combat, including movement. You could also oversee the battlegrounds.
Now look at Bethesda's system. All it does so far, is give you time to select what you're aiming at. A far cry from being able to think your moves and tactics through, and still very much twitch based in everything but aiming. Whoop-di-doo. I could've played Max Payne to get that.