Things we learned from Fallout 4

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Brahmin Noodles, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    -Well, Vic owes a lot to the hero, and it's quite clear that his business is on very fragile grounds, in a secluded little town whose only neighboors are slavers, drug addicts and tribals. Makes sense for him to walk out.
    -Marcus cannot come with you until you succeed in quite a number of quests, to insure the short term stability of the town. He openly refuses to follow you until then, explaining why. As for his motivations, he is clearly an adventurer, like Harold. Not the kind of guys who will stay for long in a town. He'll follow you, like he followed others before (which led to lucrative opportunities) and like he'll follow others in the future.
    -Cassidy doesn't plan on lasting long anyway. But rather than dying in a random bar fight, or in custody within the cells, he'd rather die in the open air, with a story to tell. He is bored out of his mind, and you have to push him in quite a long discussion before he finally goes "er, fuck it, let's do this."
    -Myron leaves because of the choosen one's lies and false promises. Once he's out, he knows he can no longer go back to the Mordinos (they shoot him on sight, in the game). As far as we know, he is indeed knee deep in a journey he doesn't want to take part with, and he often complains.
    -Considering how OP Goris is, it makes sense for him to fully join the hero late in the game. As for his motivations, they are a bit cheesy (knowledge, then revenge), but they kind of work.
    -Sulik is a retarded tribal who couldn't walk one mile without getting caught by slavers, or getting in trouble again with racist locals. He has looked for his sister for a long, long time, so the choosen one is his best (only) option. Especially considering that they are both tribals. Makes sense that he trusts you, with or without the restoration mod.
    -Couldn't say about Skynet, I never took it with me.
    -Well, Lenny has his story about atonement, because he couldn't go with the hero's ancestor. He feels guilty about it and wishes to repair this youthful mistake, by helping you the best he can. As for the rest, the ghouls of Gecko seem to be quite nomadic. They settled not so long ago, accept strangers within their ranks, so it's safe to say that anybody can basically leave when they want.

    Not sure what you mean. Some of these guy's motivations can be a bit simple, but none of them follow you blindly, without prior explanation on their motivations. Some of the longest dialogs of the game are the ones preceding the proposal of walking together, and hell, all can fail. If your karma is low, many won't follow you. Myron won't follow you if you aren't intelligent enough, or if you side with one particular family (if I remember correctly). Cassidy won't follow you if you're a slaver. Neither Sulik nor Goris will follow you if you have a low karma, I think. If you help the racists in Broken Hills, Marcus won't follow you.
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  2. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    I know it, these are basic conditions should be entered anyway. Glad devs find time in their schedule to code this. Props to BIS. /s
    But that's the problem. They have carefully written dialogs, they aren't some walking bags (hello Vic though) or mercenaries. And their motivation is kinda blurry. And if it's not, it's still not so convincing. Plus they are so fragile, I'll rather walk with the dog or a bot.
    Walk out or walk away down to oil rig pretending to be different person and hardly getting into power armor because of being fat ass?
    Asshole. He refuses to follow Chosen One before tribal resolves situational problems but accepts after and leaving longterm ones on the shoulders of the people. No wonders Jacobstown is falling apart as a society when the Courier visits it. And Marcus oh the suprise not so adventurer this time. Good he learned.
    It's not a *long* discussion and it was written like it's CASSIDY who pushes the player to 'well alright let's go pal! Towards the adventures!' instead of leaving himself, which now looks cheesier than I remembered several years ago. And what so heroic or worth telling when he catches a heart attack during some serious troubles right on chosen's hands? Do you really think it's a good story?
    Myron is not a dumbass and his eyes aren't decieving him, the tribal with some questionable party is not very convincing no matter how intelligent this speciment is. And he does not need to go back to mordinos, he can work for anyone or even leave New Reno. He actually left and even catch a knife under his rib in Den (which is another cheesy joke pulled from BIS joke pool), why cant he go elsewhere? Like in NCR and being valuable asset in research lab. Or in the Vault City, suits him well, everyone there is arrogant sons of bitches anyway.
    He maybe tribal but he doesn't look so stupid, more blusterous than stupid. He catches himself into debt in town's bar, not catched by slavers in the game after all.
    He can, others clearly can't stand him.
    /EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry, I remembered one possible companion in Fallout 1 with written personality and motivation to left home and follow OBJ_DUDE. It's Tandy.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  3. whirlingdervish

    whirlingdervish Brahmin Cavalry Commander

    Jul 3, 2007
    Vic isn't _just_ a mule. His repair skill is frequently better than that of my character (if there was weapon or gear repairing in the game this may not have been so, but as it was..) and he can use some of the most powerful small guns in the game if you are using a decent sized party to make up for your own lack of weapon skills.

    He ends up being of similar usefulness to Raul in NV when I think about it, and slightly less of a walking cliché.

    Between Cassidy and Vic with scoped hunting rifles, and Sulik sporting something like a 14mm pistol in the early/mid game, you won't even have to do much in fights but keep your distance.
  4. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    As said, the motivations can be blurry or not always very convincing (they are convincing to me though, even if I think that the ones of New Vegas have the most credible ones), but they are there. Sure, depending on who plays the game, they may require a certain degree of suspension of disbelief, alright, but let's be honest, not so much. Hell, Baldur's Gate is an excellent RPG, well written and all, but companions join you for utter nonsense. Baldur's Gate II admirably corrected the shot, but what I mean is that even by great RPGs standards, Fallout's companions had a legit reason why they joined you, and they all proved useful, each one in their own way.

    Vic can be seen as a mule, but even he thinks of himself as such, a bit like Raul. He's the old, awkward fatty who somehow survived by getting under the protection of stronger people his entire life, chit chatting his way out of delicate situations, often with failures like with Metzger. The way he evolves his skills actually shows him getting more and more agressive and in a way, sure of himself. There's no line of dialog to hint that, which is a shame, but that's how I always interpreted his evolution. Vic gets to become one of the best small arms shooters of the entire game, if you carry him around long enough. And the way he suddenly starts to answer to his sassy daughter, I always interpreted it as the guy who has now seen a bit of violence, and is tired of getting shit on by everyone, including his own daughter. Then again, it's my interpretation of the character, it's purely subjective and it's not backed by any dialog, so... anyway.

    My point was to show show the contrast with Fallout 4, where the companion's motivations are simply gone. Zero reason why they'd join you... Piper and MacReady being the worst culprits. Hancock, I can go with it, because he's "not the guy with a plan", but when the suspension of disbelief is based on the idea that the characters don't give a flying donut, there's a problem somewhere.
    Hell, if Piper was half as logical as Marcus (not a very convincing companion, according to you, so you see my point here), you'd have, at least, a quest in Diamond City that would insure the short term safety of her family and business before she agrees to come with you.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  5. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Well, my point is to show that classics aren't as convincing as they should be and not very far from Alt+F4 because Black Isle full is excellent writers yo and should be brought to discussion in the last line. Those who forget the history are doomed to repeat it. (c)
    And boy we did it hard way.
    Fallout 3 again doesn't have much writing for companions, it keep things simple and guess what? It worked 90% of the time, simpler character and simple motivations contributed more than layers upon layers upon layers of character exposition and personality. Like with Fallout 2 and 4.
    Fallout 4 did this and failed even harder because of lack of any strong writing behind the characters but you know it already.

    Other people understood companions better. Again, a fucking eastern european mod made better companions than writers straight outta BIS yo in critically acclaimed sequel to Fallout. Good to know they learn though. After all, some of FNV companions were written by MCA.

    /EDIT: Feel free to just *handwave*, I guess I'm starting to act on bias and emotion.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  6. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    I really couldn't tell about Fallout 3, since I never actually picked any companion, so I'll trust you with that. There wasn't any problem with their motivations, it was my character's reasons to hire them. The way I roleplayed it, I never found a good reason to team up with unstable, potentially dangerous people like zealots, sex slaves, ex raiders, rogue super mutants or my childhood's bully. Since my character was a paranoid, good hearted loner, there wasn't much reason for him to team up with these guys. I heard that Charon was a decent character though, and if I replay Fallout 3 one day, I'll give a shot to the companions.

    In my mind, the two titles who rocked the "hire a companion" moments were Baldur's Gate II and Planescape Torment. For example : you get robbed by a dwarf, but he does it with amazing skills and even steampunk like technologies. At some point, he gets arrested, and if you want to take advantage of the situation, you can testify for him, and in exchange, he'll share his techniques and technologies with you, and he'll promise not to rob you ever again. As events unfold, he gets more and more reasons to stay. Or you have this crazy barbaric, powerful elf about to be burned at the stake, who recognizes you in the crowd and calls your name. You have to do something, one way or another. Either be a bastard and let her burn, or intervene for her. If you do, you get yourself in trouble, but also gain a powerful, yet crazy and embarassing ally. In other words, every time you had the opportunity to hire someone, it was through an immersive, story driven choice, with a direct effect on the storyline. It defined your character's stance on the overall world, and hell, that was good.
    Fallout 1&2 could have been more like that, I'll give you that. But I can't blame the devs for not going this far. As you said, the simple fact that you had basic conditions/dialogs for hiring companions was already something to be noted. The first Baldur's gate was extremely awkward in that regard, and it still set a standard for its time. Van Buren would have been interesting, with companions doing their own quests, going on their own travels before going back to you. I would have loved to see that.
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  7. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    I think you're rigth, these games sums up the best Bioware and Black Isle can ever come up with. Fallout 2 went full awkward but instead we got more polished PS:T which is still nice exchange since PS:T requiers more from the writers than ctrl+c/ctrl+v from the rulebook.
    It's just shame that only by New Vegas we got improvement in this direction since Fallout was considered one of the best written games ever, you'd think your allies will be written not any worse than your foes. But let's not talk about our foes in F2 since this is where thread can be considered derailed.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  8. Neane93

    Neane93 First time out of the vault

    May 9, 2016

    21st Century USA uses gun designs from WW2 and WW1 (and last ditch guns from WW2 I must add)

  9. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    412: A level 10 cat will manifest on occasion, under the ground layer in an unnatural possition when in vats, around enemy spawn locations.
  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    That reminds me of the many towns in Fallout 4...
  11. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    413: Bethesda still can't into 2005-2007 graphics

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  12. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    Are these pictures from your toaster or someone else's?
    I don't want to come off as an apologist, but I get angry when someone that doesn't know the first thing about textures complains about it. Makes you no different then the fat trailer park redneck at a baseball game telling a player how to hit the ball when you have never stood on a field. Fallout 4 is a shit game yes, but pick a topic you have some knowledge in.
  13. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    No and from my time playing the game at max settings on my "toaster" it had shit textures. I don't need to know how textures work in order to tell that they look like dog shit especially if I run better looking games that don't determine framerate from a random number generator.
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  14. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    It's a texture loading glitch, something off in memory management. I believe ENB is often used to fix the glitch. And I heard that textures not even packed properly in the base game. Again, mods fixed it.
    But maxed out, I've never seen that the results were any better than STALKER for example. Again, the lighting takes the crown, sets the tone and pretty much a feature. Lighting and designer's work. Architecture is more detailed than any game from 2005-2007.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  15. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
  16. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Marcus is just the sheriff, he's not the mayor. If he leaves he can just put a deputy, or another officer in charge. The only real skills you need are being big and good with a minigun.

    Apart from anti-mutant gangs, Broken Hills seems like an ok town, where people get along with each other, and supposing the Chosen One can deal with said anti-mutant gangs, that solves those problems.
    It's not a great story, but he wants to get out of Vault City and back to adventure, and he seems to be helpful as a gun. And even if he does have a heart-attack, maybe his condition isn't serious, but rather something a little CPR can solve, he just needs someone to be around to help him.
    He felt like the Mordino's didn't respect him, and leaving would make things better. And to be fair, he was treated poorly, essentially slaving away in a basement.
    NCR: He has no qualifications and lacks the social graces to be offered the job.
    Vault City: He's an outlander. They probably would turn him away at the gates.
    You help him out of debt, and befriend him on your journey. He probably gets on well with the Chosen One.
    Only Cassidy and Myron really mention anything. Myrons an asshole regardless of whose in the party, and Cassidy probably isn't actively hateful towards Ghouls, so much as a little prejudiced.
  17. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    You're late to the party, I don't have much will but come get some anyway.
    If he can be taken down by one dose of Jet just like old and fatty (it seriously strikes on heart) Jesus Mordino, then his heart's condition isn't as great as you trying to illustrate.
    Only after such smart move the city will fall apart anyway, just 'peacefully' when you make those quests. It's not a big thing but later in F:NV you'll see how great Marcus being in charge. Twice. At least Jackobstown can be saved, by the Courier I must add. I fucking repeating myself again. Fucking Fuck. Stop this circlejerk.
    1.He's well known to be a capable chemist. Or you was led for Tags' bullshit about pre-war Jet somehow?
    2.Riiiight, and Vic's family are surely VC descedants for example. No, they're outsiders too but Valerie got the job inside VC after all. Who's she and who's Myron?
    Befriended but this promise to find the sister you'll never fulfill, you really have never put yourself into Sulik's shoes? Chosen One pretty much care about his problems the whole journey. Mods will fix it. /s
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  18. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Are you forgetting that while he's travelling with you, he can potentially last years without getting a heart-attack. And maybe certain drugs just trigger it.
    1.Barely anyone knows where Jet comes from. If a 16 year old walks in to Shady Sands and claims "I invented Jet", he'd probably be lauhged down.
    2. Valerie's mother was a Vault City Citizen.
    They were being heavily pressured to complete Fallout 2 within a year, and wanted to implement the quest, but didn't have time. Can't really blame BIS for that.
  19. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Can't blame but can't count this out.
    Barely anyoneInfact no one knows how it is produced too, so Myron can have proof... Yeah, that's nasty but still.
    While it's just won't be any fair from the gameplay standpoint to kill a companion you befriended with, it's a matter of pure luck how long he travels with Chosen without any special medical treatment.
    You mean, TRIGGERED? Yes, certain does. Jet, Psycho, Buffout does. The ones that go heavy on heart, they sure go deadly on Cassidy. Stop this.
  20. Kremin

    Kremin Guest

    414: Uninstalling the game is more riveting and exciting than the main quest
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