Himmelstoss
First time out of the vault
TheDidact said:
Amen to that. That would sure have been an interesting twist.
To me, Honest Hearts really wasn't that good...
- Thread starter Surf Solar
- Start date
First time out of the vault
Amen to that. That would sure have been an interesting twist.
laclongquan
Boned Hunter of Sister
On the Ghost of She battle: you dont use chems, foods, or anything during that quest?When I get near the undiscovered location nearest to quest marker, ie the V22 dwellers guard camp, I use all sort of stuffs available. Getting near the quest marker is long enough for them to run out, so I dose the second time. That's more than enough to finish the fight
Brahmin Steak, Bighorner Steak, Yao Guai Meat, Coyote Tobacco, Mentats, Tequila, Trail Mix, and all sort of shits. Basically I go over the whole list of Aid item.
On the overall Honest Hearts: I like it. It's a laid back, very laid back breather from the chaotic storm of war that is Mojave. The green plants, wide lake, long rivers, high peaks are very soothing. Truly, a paradise on this post apocalyptic world.
Lacking:
- Merchants. I understand the need of a limited shops before completion. It add to the atmosphere. But there's no reason for no merchant after that. Drop an auto-generated merchant at one of the three point: A legion trader at General Store if it's Chaotic Zion. A Happy Trails trader at Dead Horse camp if Crush the White Legs. A Crimson Caravan at Sorrow camp if Flight from Zion. Just generic inventory is fine.
Brahmin Steak, Bighorner Steak, Yao Guai Meat, Coyote Tobacco, Mentats, Tequila, Trail Mix, and all sort of shits. Basically I go over the whole list of Aid item.
On the overall Honest Hearts: I like it. It's a laid back, very laid back breather from the chaotic storm of war that is Mojave. The green plants, wide lake, long rivers, high peaks are very soothing. Truly, a paradise on this post apocalyptic world.
Lacking:
- Merchants. I understand the need of a limited shops before completion. It add to the atmosphere. But there's no reason for no merchant after that. Drop an auto-generated merchant at one of the three point: A legion trader at General Store if it's Chaotic Zion. A Happy Trails trader at Dead Horse camp if Crush the White Legs. A Crimson Caravan at Sorrow camp if Flight from Zion. Just generic inventory is fine.
The Sixth Ranger
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I fully agree with SurfSolar. While it does indeed begin promisingly, that illusion is soon shattered when you discover the DLC is filled with fetch quests. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is one hell of a 'breaking the suspension of disbelief' moment. After middling along a bit through Zion Valley (which mainly seems to be filled with cliffs you usually find in deserts and sometimes a bridge or two), you find out that this DLC is indeed quite boring. There are almost no characters to speak to, no large quests to do, or interesting backstory to find out. The most sympathetic character is ironically the Survivalist, who only makes an appearance by skeleton. The companions are basically one dimensional splats, and are not interesting at all. As a YouTube Let's Player put it so well: ''Unless you stop leading me around pointlessly, Follows Chalk, I'll have to toss you off a cliff''. The final battle is kind of crappy, really. All you do is slowly trudge through the water, ocassionally killing one or two White Legs, until you get to the dissappointing final boss. The evacuation isn't much better, especially with both the enemy and ally AI acting like idiots.
In short, I too, find the DLC a dissapointment. JE Sawyer has justified the DLC, by saying that this is the most rushed DLC of the lot, and that they had to cut developmental corners to push the DLC out on the market. That doesn't justify everything though; they could just as well have used the little time they have to not create a large area that is very rough around the edges, but they could have made a smaller area that would be very well polished.
In short, I too, find the DLC a dissapointment. JE Sawyer has justified the DLC, by saying that this is the most rushed DLC of the lot, and that they had to cut developmental corners to push the DLC out on the market. That doesn't justify everything though; they could just as well have used the little time they have to not create a large area that is very rough around the edges, but they could have made a smaller area that would be very well polished.
Unfortunate that is the problem with a lot of these DLCs.
Now do know that I like the Fallout New Vegas DLCs and think they have been consistently superior over most SP DLCs for other games including the Borderlands ones, but so much could have been done different with them.
Both Honest Hearts and Old World Blues are full of fetch quests to the point it is becoming annoying, in that respect I found the quests of Dead Money and Lonesome Road far better.
In a sense Dead Money is also mostly about collecting, but this time you gather team members you need for the second half of the game.
In Lonesome Road most of the quests followed up onto each other, rather than sending you from one side of the map over and over. (of course one of its problems is that it tried to be more of an action shooter, complete with elevator sequence)
I do sometimes wonder if the limitation in quests ideas came because of how the FO3/FNV engine is designed, or how much time the teams actually had on making these (if they had been given more time that they would have done things different).
They could have perhaps have put some prospectors and non Legion/White Legs slavers in Zion who are busy with their own agendas.
This would also perhaps resolved the limited number of traders issue.
As for Old World Blues, I don't know how I would have solved that one but I think I would seriously reduce the number of fetch quests, instead doing something else that would make exploring the entire facility even more important.
Now do know that I like the Fallout New Vegas DLCs and think they have been consistently superior over most SP DLCs for other games including the Borderlands ones, but so much could have been done different with them.
Both Honest Hearts and Old World Blues are full of fetch quests to the point it is becoming annoying, in that respect I found the quests of Dead Money and Lonesome Road far better.
In a sense Dead Money is also mostly about collecting, but this time you gather team members you need for the second half of the game.
In Lonesome Road most of the quests followed up onto each other, rather than sending you from one side of the map over and over. (of course one of its problems is that it tried to be more of an action shooter, complete with elevator sequence)
I do sometimes wonder if the limitation in quests ideas came because of how the FO3/FNV engine is designed, or how much time the teams actually had on making these (if they had been given more time that they would have done things different).
They could have perhaps have put some prospectors and non Legion/White Legs slavers in Zion who are busy with their own agendas.
This would also perhaps resolved the limited number of traders issue.
As for Old World Blues, I don't know how I would have solved that one but I think I would seriously reduce the number of fetch quests, instead doing something else that would make exploring the entire facility even more important.
Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
Honest Hearts really could've benefited from not having your caravan of dudes get sacked in this initial bit. Maybe some of the nameless NPC mooks, but left the other people around so you've got some more 'normal' people to talk to.
The Sixth Ranger
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Lonesome Road was designed along the aspect of the road. I believe that's why there aren't a lot of areas to explore off the beaten path. But that's the whole point. This is one last road you must walk, before you reach the end of your journey.
Dead Money is built around the idea of the heist, gathering resources, disciplining your crew for the heist. That is, unless, your greed kills all of you.
Old World Blues is designed along the principle of discovery. It's a clever word play: Big Empty, and it's a massive treasure trove, and it's all yours. But, an over reliance on the past is dangerous, and maybe, you should look to the future, and let the bright tomorrow in.
And Honest Hearts is built along the principle of the fetch quest. What a fail.
Dead Money is built around the idea of the heist, gathering resources, disciplining your crew for the heist. That is, unless, your greed kills all of you.
Old World Blues is designed along the principle of discovery. It's a clever word play: Big Empty, and it's a massive treasure trove, and it's all yours. But, an over reliance on the past is dangerous, and maybe, you should look to the future, and let the bright tomorrow in.
And Honest Hearts is built along the principle of the fetch quest. What a fail.
BonusWaffle
Still Mildly Glowing
I never actually got around to finishing the dlc. Every time Daniel gives me lip about not being invited here i lose my shit and murder all the sorrows. The survivalists caches are nice though.
ramessesjones
It Wandered In From the Wastes
The Sixth Ranger said:
No it's not, it's built around exploring Zion and environmental storytelling. The quests are about the least important thing in that DLC and you can pretty much complete all of them as you go about exploring with almost no additional effort.
I don't even consider the stuff with the tribes the main story for that DLC, it's just one fairly small conflict in the larger history of Zion that you find when you explore.
The Sixth Ranger
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Err, yeah, but there isn't really that much to explore. Most locations are either geological formations, or caves where the Survivalist lived, with occasionally a pre-war building or two. Also, I could only detect two storylines: that of the Survivalist, and that of the bigger conflict. There is nothing else to do in the damn place. I'll admit, the first time it was a lot of fun, but the worst part is Zion being empty after completing the main storyline.ramessesjones said:
CthuluIsSpy
A Smooth-Skin
Yeah, I didn't like Honest Hearts as well. I found it to be rather boring.
The only redeeming features about it I could think of is that it introduces .45 bullets and that there are actual weather effects.
The only redeeming features about it I could think of is that it introduces .45 bullets and that there are actual weather effects.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
It would have been nice if they added the arroyo theme as a backtrack, would have really added to the atmosphere.
I liked Honest Hearts, but I agree it could be a lot better.
I liked Honest Hearts, but I agree it could be a lot better.
ramessesjones
It Wandered In From the Wastes
The Sixth Ranger said:
5545Trey
Underground Deviant
This DLC reminded me of Fallout 3, just because of how terrible it was.
Kilgore Trout
Gyro Captain
Honest Hearts had an interesting premise but a poor execution. I found the way the game depicted "tribals" to be both problematic and also quite boring - it really felt like it was a huge step backward for the Fallout series to have bad caricatures of Native Americans in place of interesting and/or well developed factions.
I also really disliked the way the main quest was handled; Daniel is such an obnoxious, self-righteous prick, and I wish it were possible to kill him without automatically failing the entire questline. Joshua Graham is simultaneously badass but also kind anticlimactic after all the hype surrounding the "Burned Man". And it would have been nice to have had a little more interaction between HH and the main game - perhaps some kind of reward from Caesar for killing him, or some way to undermine the Legion's morale by confirming that he's still alive? More than any other DLC, HH feels disconnected from the action going on in the Mojave.
On the plus side, I enjoyed the visuals (a nice break from the "Mojave Beige" color palette of the main game),the challenge of only bringing in 75 lbs of equipment, and the Survivalist's story. There is also some excellent loot to be had in Zion, which means that I rarely skip it in a playthrough.
I also really disliked the way the main quest was handled; Daniel is such an obnoxious, self-righteous prick, and I wish it were possible to kill him without automatically failing the entire questline. Joshua Graham is simultaneously badass but also kind anticlimactic after all the hype surrounding the "Burned Man". And it would have been nice to have had a little more interaction between HH and the main game - perhaps some kind of reward from Caesar for killing him, or some way to undermine the Legion's morale by confirming that he's still alive? More than any other DLC, HH feels disconnected from the action going on in the Mojave.
On the plus side, I enjoyed the visuals (a nice break from the "Mojave Beige" color palette of the main game),the challenge of only bringing in 75 lbs of equipment, and the Survivalist's story. There is also some excellent loot to be had in Zion, which means that I rarely skip it in a playthrough.
5545Trey
Underground Deviant
Was it even possible to kill Joshua Graham?
Kilgore Trout
Gyro Captain
It's possible - but supremely difficult, unless you decide to cheese your way through by spamming superstims or something. You'll be amazed at how quickly your badass courier, who eats deathclaw omelets for breakfast every morning, will die at the hands of Mr. Graham - bullets from his gun seem to work like real life bullets, as opposed to Fallout bullets.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I agree that there is a Fallout 3 feel on Honest Hearts, but i think i still find it better than Fallout 3 or Point Lookout. (albeit less good than the pitt)
At least you are given purposes, reasons to be there, reasons to leave, reasons to help the tribes (being altruistic, or just wanting a map to leave the area without getting lost)
I also felt the exploration more enjoyable, with the survival notes, the removal of music that enhance the immersion, the lore context for Yao Guaï & plants, the fact you could casually encounters members of the three main tribes, the height that force you to look out for your path (you can't just not bother and climb) notably in the Daniel's village, the view when you are on the top, the comments of your followers when exploring. That exploration have an overall better feel, and the size of the map doesn't feel overly large like the Mojave or the Capital Wasteland. It really sells the multi-region gameworld for me. I also liked that they turned off FT near the end.
The options for the main quests provide real alternatives and hesitation. There is a choice that is a little better than the other, but not too overly. You can choose any of those and have balanced pros & cons.
On the other hand, there is clearly not enough characters. Those characters doesn't have enough depth. Their quests are mostly uninteresting and overly rely on quest markers. Also, it would have been nice to have two linked gameworld, the second having a city. I tend to see DLC as mini-games, and i am not fond of a mini-game be only about the wasteland or a dungeons. I love RPG cities, in which you can talk with almost everyone.
At least you are given purposes, reasons to be there, reasons to leave, reasons to help the tribes (being altruistic, or just wanting a map to leave the area without getting lost)
I also felt the exploration more enjoyable, with the survival notes, the removal of music that enhance the immersion, the lore context for Yao Guaï & plants, the fact you could casually encounters members of the three main tribes, the height that force you to look out for your path (you can't just not bother and climb) notably in the Daniel's village, the view when you are on the top, the comments of your followers when exploring. That exploration have an overall better feel, and the size of the map doesn't feel overly large like the Mojave or the Capital Wasteland. It really sells the multi-region gameworld for me. I also liked that they turned off FT near the end.
The options for the main quests provide real alternatives and hesitation. There is a choice that is a little better than the other, but not too overly. You can choose any of those and have balanced pros & cons.
On the other hand, there is clearly not enough characters. Those characters doesn't have enough depth. Their quests are mostly uninteresting and overly rely on quest markers. Also, it would have been nice to have two linked gameworld, the second having a city. I tend to see DLC as mini-games, and i am not fond of a mini-game be only about the wasteland or a dungeons. I love RPG cities, in which you can talk with almost everyone.
It was a disappointment for me. I loved the dlc but I though that even if there are scripted attacks I can defend my caravan and I was really sad cuz I couldnt defend the caravan. It would be much better If just the caravan guards and Ricky dies, then it comes out that he had the map... but he didnt even had the map cuz his pip boy wasnt even working then we take the lead and help the caravan. There would be even things like that we need to take a rest so we make a camp and the white legs attack at night and we need to survive the attack and much like that. It would be so cool.
I disagree on that "HH feels like Fo3". Because it really doesn't.
Some people just had really strange expectations for that DLC.
Some people just had really strange expectations for that DLC.