Underpowered Fire Weapons

[SharkClub]

So I've been thinking for a while that fire weapons in Fallout 1/2 need a buff. I'm no Fallout modder, but I do know that there are several overhaul mods for Fallout 2 at least and at the moment I'm basically just pitching ideas.

• Would it be possible (engine-wise, modder-wise) to create an "afterburn" effect similar to how poison works (damage over time) but much more immediate and dangerous and lasts a fraction of the time? Something like this would really compliment Flamer users in crowds of enemies.
  
• How about changing the damage type of Molotov Cocktails to "Fire" from "Explosive" (makes sense right?) to give people reason to use it (with said "afterburn" effect). Throwing weapons in F1/2 were never really all that good and the vanilla Molotovs are, let's face it - useless.
  
• Maybe make the Improved Flamer have +1 hex of range compared to the normal Flamer? That wouldn't be much of visual anomaly would it (assuming no modification is done to the animation on the flames)? And how about upping the damage on the Imp. Flamer too (that +5 to minimum damage is a really half-hearted way of "upgrading" the damn gun)?
  
• And last, about the Pyromaniac perk. It is fairly useless and could use a buff. That +5 damage is nothing considering it only works with Flamers and there are plenty of other perks available which are ten times as useful. I have a feeling it would be much better if it was (god forbid) like Fallout 3/NV's take on the perk with +50% fire damage done (and have that also apply to Molotovs).

To be honest, I'd really just like to see Flamers become a more useful weapon in the Big Gun category, as it stands right now it can't even kill a normal human in a leather jacket at point blank without some insane luck (real luck). I find it sad that late-game they can't hurt a fly.

 

[Lexx]

I feel a bit bad about seeing this thread not getting any attention, so I try my best to answer some turf:

1. Yes, a bit of a fiddle work, but it should be possible. Not with a visual change, though. So you wouldn't see yourself burning.

2. It wasn't possible from a technical point of view. It can only be flame or explosive, not both. But I don't really remember the details here. On the other hand, one might be possible to add additional flame damage to the explosive damage via Sfall, somehow. Not sure about this one, though.

3. Didn't the improved flamer got less range than the normal one, and instead had a higher damage output? Anyway, changing range, etc. is no problem.

4. This should be possible with Sfall.

 

[SharkClub]

First of all, thank you for answering my questions Lexx.

1. Yes, a bit of a fiddle work, but it should be possible. Not with a visual change, though. So you wouldn't see yourself burning.

That's fine, I didn't mean a visual change anyway because I know that since poison doesn't have one it would probably be difficult/impossible.

2. It wasn't possible from a technical point of view. It can only be flame or explosive, not both. But I don't really remember the details here. On the other hand, one might be possible to add additional flame damage to the explosive damage via Sfall, somehow. Not sure about this one, though.

Well that's sad. So it's not possible to have it just a fire damage weapon, even though it acts like an explosive?

3. Didn't the improved flamer got less range than the normal one, and instead had a higher damage output? Anyway, changing range, etc. is no problem.

I think the only difference between the Flamer and Improved Flamer is that the Imp. Flamer has +5 minimum damage. At least, according to the Vault wiki there is no change in range for it, and I don't remember there being a difference when I tried my Flamers-only/Pyromaniac playthrough in Fallout 2 (I got my shit slapped by all the mutants in Mariposa for such a long time, but I think I got through it. The stray Pigrats hanging around took more than one Imp. Flamer blast sometimes, which was disappointing).

4. This should be possible with Sfall.

That's good, I just need someone who can be bothered to fiddle around with it because I'm pretty much useless.

Something I also forgot to mention, the possibility of adding the Flamer to vendor lists mid-game (around Vault City, New Reno)? The only place it's currently obtainable from in Fallout 2 (to my knowledge) is the Gang encounter outside New Reno.

 

[Brother None]

I have no answers for anything obviously, so I'm just posting to note I dig this idea.

 

[Ardent]

There will be a wider range of fire-based weapons to choose from in Mutants Rising, both big guns and small guns.

As for the Molotov Cocktail, I was surprised in a recent playthrough that an enemy killed with the Molotov played the running-burning animation. My guess is that although Molotov Cocktail deals explosive damage, it still might be hardcoded to play the burning guy animation every once in a while. Most grenades are in fact hardcoded - e.g. the plasma grenade and the EMP grenade - you cannot normally choose the type of damage for grenades, if you want them to have an AoE.

 

[.Pixote.]

There will be a wider range of fire-based weapons to choose from in Mutants Rising, both big guns and small guns.

I hope we are using the improved flamer animations (extra animation frames) with MR, there's nothing more beautiful then toasting your enemies, and I agree the Pyromaniac perk should give a 50% boast to damage, with maybe an extra +2 hex range.

 

[SharkClub]

There will be a wider range of fire-based weapons to choose from in Mutants Rising, both big guns and small guns.

Well I'm glad to hear that at least. Small guns fire weapons though... a Blowtorch or something?

 

[ThwartAbyss54]

There will be a wider range of fire-based weapons to choose from in Mutants Rising, both big guns and small guns.

Well I'm glad to hear that at least. Small guns fire weapons though... a Blowtorch or something?

Flame pistol? I would love to go around burning my enemies eyes out with a blowtorch though

 

[.Pixote.]

The animation for the hand flamer has been built for a while now, so it will be nice to see in game.

 

[Ardent]

Well I'm glad to hear that at least. Small guns fire weapons though... a Blowtorch or something?

So far we've got a flame pistol (good guess, ThwartAbyss54!) and a flare gun (believe it or not, we thought about it before it appeared in Lonesome Road). The flame pistol has an area of effect attack, hitting multiple enemies at the same time, whereas the flare gun deals damage to individual targets, but is fire based, so it's more effective than a zip gun (both are available roughly at the same time). But flare ammo is much scarcer than the 10mm ammo for the zip gun.

I like the idea of a blowtorch though...

We also have one new fire-spitting big gun, but that's under the blankets for now.

 

[dudejo001]

Sorry if this thread is too old but I have a suggestion for Molotovs.

What about plasma damage? It has an animation for exploding and it's a heat-based element(?).

 

[SharkClub]

Eh, wouldn't really see the point in that. We already have Plasma Grenades, and in general it would just make more sense to make it stand out with a different damage type (fire).

 

[dudejo001]

Once, I tried giving Fire type to Molotovs.

Sadly, only the Flamer supports Fire damage so the Molotov would glitch into oblivion.

So until we can hack a blast animation for Fire damage into the game code, making Molotovs use Plasma damage is the next best thing I know of.

 

[SharkClub]

That's interesting. Well, Plasma damage would still certainly make it more useful than it is now (in its currently useless state).

 

[Ardent]

Once, I tried giving Fire type to Molotovs.

Sadly, only the Flamer supports Fire damage so the Molotov would glitch into oblivion.

So until we can hack a blast animation for Fire damage into the game code, making Molotovs use Plasma damage is the next best thing I know of.

Giving the molotov plasma damage will cause the weapon only to deal damage to the single critter it hits. In other words, the area of effect will dissapear. That's actually what the molotov does when you give it fire damage. I assume the plasma explosion and the EMP explosion of the original grenades are hardcoded - that this particular PID produces an explosion dealing plasma or EMP damage.

 

[dudejo001]

Giving the molotov plasma damage will cause the weapon only to deal damage to the single critter it hits. In other words, the area of effect will dissapear. That's actually what the molotov does when you give it fire damage. I assume the plasma explosion and the EMP explosion of the original grenades are hardcoded - that this particular PID produces an explosion dealing plasma or EMP damage.

Do you have evidence that it loses the splash damage?

On my side, I set it to Plasma damage using F2wedit and throwing a molotov at point blank hurt me as well as the enemy.

This works in both Fallout 1 and 2.

 

[Ardent]

Do you have evidence that it loses the splash damage?

Only my personal experiments with giving the molotov cocktail fire damage and trying to create new weapons with explosive plasma damage.

On my side, I set it to Plasma damage using F2wedit and throwing a molotov at point blank hurt me as well as the enemy.

Interesting. Gotta check that out. I'll be back when I've made some further testing.

 

[Lexx]

Well, there are plasma grenades with range damage too (though, I never used a single one of them).

 

[.Pixote.]

Well, there are plasma grenades with range damage too (though, I never used a single one of them).

Does range damage mean splash damage - You never used a plasma grenade in a fight, I don't believe it.

It's a very effective way of removing multiple critters, just make sure your buddies don't get hit. The Hubologists love to use them.

 

[NovaRain]

It's a very effective way of removing multiple critters, just make sure your buddies don't get hit. The Hubologists love to use them.

Yeah, and if combined with Glovz's damage fix, enemies with plasma grenades become an extremely top-priority target for me, as one Hubologist can wipe out half of my group in one turn...