Unique weapons
- Thread starter welsh
- Start date
So, are you saying that a concept of state or government in Fallout would drop the Post-Nuclear setting? How about Fallout 2? That shouldn't be Post Nuclear... since there is a form of government in NCR and Vault City... Also, there is currency in redding and all over the game in the form of little coins.
Is this a paradox? Or maybe a contradiction to yourself.
Is this a paradox? Or maybe a contradiction to yourself.
welsh
Junkmaster
Ok, the problem is that having a currency as we know it, or as utilized in Fallout 1 (on bottle caps) requires someone to give that currency value- someone who, at the very last line would credit the value of that cap. That means someone who has enough vested interest in a currency to give it value- its a public good and thus nonexcludable to anyone. Historically, that is only a fairly recent achievement in society. In some ways the power of a particular country is measured by the value of its currency. Otherwise you need to have intrinsic value. Individual gold coins have inherent value (because you can melt them and turn them into jewelry- you can see why jewelry doesn't matter that much in FO).
So you get gold coins- each is more or less the same size and shape, thus the gold carries value for itself. The problem with carrying bags of gold coins is that gold is very heavy- something which doesn't come up in FO2.
Historically, the way that sailors got around the problem of gold is by buying spices which were more valuable than gold and easier to carry. When they came home from the Far East, they sold the spices for gold.
But its interesting that FO2 adopted gold as currency and not bottle caps. Not sure how a GECK could overcome your currency issues (as the GECK's mechanics are never really clear). As for the societies- its possible that perhaps the NCR might be able to come up with a currency- but it would be difficult. When you have printed bills, as in Redding (from the mines), there is not a lot of it (because of strict control). In a sense the currency is a transferable debt that the mine has to pay. But that's hardly a currency.
So you are stuck- really worthless bottle caps vs. too heavy gold coins.
The reason why it exists is for easy game play. More realistically, you should trade for goods that are desirable by everone (like bullets), and perhaps get to use currency when you are in those places that can have a currency.
Actually that might play in well with the game. The better you support some communities the more its currency might be worth, and the better you do. Thus if you supported VC, NCR, or Reno during FO2, whichever you support does better vis-a-vis the others determined by currency value.
So you get gold coins- each is more or less the same size and shape, thus the gold carries value for itself. The problem with carrying bags of gold coins is that gold is very heavy- something which doesn't come up in FO2.
Historically, the way that sailors got around the problem of gold is by buying spices which were more valuable than gold and easier to carry. When they came home from the Far East, they sold the spices for gold.
But its interesting that FO2 adopted gold as currency and not bottle caps. Not sure how a GECK could overcome your currency issues (as the GECK's mechanics are never really clear). As for the societies- its possible that perhaps the NCR might be able to come up with a currency- but it would be difficult. When you have printed bills, as in Redding (from the mines), there is not a lot of it (because of strict control). In a sense the currency is a transferable debt that the mine has to pay. But that's hardly a currency.
So you are stuck- really worthless bottle caps vs. too heavy gold coins.
The reason why it exists is for easy game play. More realistically, you should trade for goods that are desirable by everone (like bullets), and perhaps get to use currency when you are in those places that can have a currency.
Actually that might play in well with the game. The better you support some communities the more its currency might be worth, and the better you do. Thus if you supported VC, NCR, or Reno during FO2, whichever you support does better vis-a-vis the others determined by currency value.
welsh:
In another thread I mentioned empty brass shells as an alternative to arbitrary bottlecaps and worthless gold. You actually have work invested in production, discovery, or retention of empty brass, they are useful (reloading), and someone on #fallout said that 10mm bullet is worth $4, which means that you can replace caps with brass seamlessly.
In another thread I mentioned empty brass shells as an alternative to arbitrary bottlecaps and worthless gold. You actually have work invested in production, discovery, or retention of empty brass, they are useful (reloading), and someone on #fallout said that 10mm bullet is worth $4, which means that you can replace caps with brass seamlessly.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Hmmm right, back to the topic please
welsh
Junkmaster
APTYP said:
APTYP, my apologies. I accidently edited out half your message. My bad. Sorry.
But yes, I think this is a good idea. It would also be a good switch for bullets as currency. Brass shells would have less value that live rounds, so they could easily be exchanged. Cool.
oh sweet, that would be a badass setting, example
Methidox talks to store keeper
"Oh shit.. hmmm, i'm 4 brass shells short, ahh well.. "
Methidox fires 4 bullets into the store keeper's face, picks them up accordingly, and places them on the barter table
"Well, hes dead now, time to loot"
Methidox talks to store keeper
"Oh shit.. hmmm, i'm 4 brass shells short, ahh well.. "
Methidox fires 4 bullets into the store keeper's face, picks them up accordingly, and places them on the barter table
"Well, hes dead now, time to loot"
I don't know if it's a good idea to incorporate retention of empty brass after combat into gameplay, but otherwise I think it's a solid concept. Brass is light, doesn't take inordinate amount of space - and even if it did, not many people have seen just how big a pile of 5,000 empty shells is, so I doubt it'll raise many questions. Like for example in Fallout's bottlecaps, they were drawn as a disk with a rim bent downward at 60 degrees angle, but this way they take a lot of space and you can easily cut your fingers. In real world they'd probably hammer it into a flat disk. The point is that nobody to my knowledge has previously mentioned this, and the artist was either as ignorant or simply thought that non-stamped caps is a better artistic decision since they are more recognisable as bottlecaps this way.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
lyuli please right like this, if you write u-r those messages will keep appearing, ok?
Brass is cool, but don't the shells suffer any transformations while firing? I mean the brass shells are pretty thin, and changing temperature so dramatically could have some consequences on their structure, making them useless if you'd try to recycle them just by putting more gunpowder and the lead part (sorry don't know how it's called in this language 
). They could be useful if they were melted down and re-shaped, but again, as mentioned before, 5000 shells would be a ridiculous amount to carry. Ever seen the movie "Hot Shots 2"?
For what comes to currency, why not use the caps used in Fallout Tactics? You know, the aluminium thingies in soda cans that allow you to open them. They're light, and, well, flat. And a pile of 5000 wouldn't weigh that much (I collect the goddamn things in case of a nuclear war
).
As far as weapons are concerned, I agree that there should be fewer firearms than in FO2, but pushing the realism to extremes would make the game pretty boring... In real life you don't have HP's, someones shoots you with a Desert Eagle, and metal armor or not, you die. Quick, painfully, and extremely messy.
I once thought that crossbows could be implemented in the Fallout universe... (Mad Max 2: Road Warrior) Crossbows could make good weapons at mid range for marksmen, since they don't have the ROF withstanding many enemies at close range...
But again, like the song
I might be wrong.
). They could be useful if they were melted down and re-shaped, but again, as mentioned before, 5000 shells would be a ridiculous amount to carry. Ever seen the movie "Hot Shots 2"? For what comes to currency, why not use the caps used in Fallout Tactics? You know, the aluminium thingies in soda cans that allow you to open them. They're light, and, well, flat. And a pile of 5000 wouldn't weigh that much (I collect the goddamn things in case of a nuclear war
). As far as weapons are concerned, I agree that there should be fewer firearms than in FO2, but pushing the realism to extremes would make the game pretty boring... In real life you don't have HP's, someones shoots you with a Desert Eagle, and metal armor or not, you die. Quick, painfully, and extremely messy.
I once thought that crossbows could be implemented in the Fallout universe... (Mad Max 2: Road Warrior
) Crossbows could make good weapons at mid range for marksmen, since they don't have the ROF withstanding many enemies at close range... But again, like the song
I might be wrong.
OnTheBounce
Still Mildly Glowing
APTYP said:
I know what you mean, APTYP. I've spent enough time in RL stooped over picking up brass to not want to sit there hunting for very small icons on-screen and clicking on them.
Wooz69 said:Brass is cool, but don't the shells suffer any transformations while firing? I mean the brass shells are pretty thin, and changing temperature so dramatically could have some consequences on their structure, making them useless if you'd try to recycle them just by putting more gunpowder and the lead part (sorry don't know how it's called in this language
Brass has to be resized after firing. It's the second step in the reloading process and even the simplest hand loading kits have a die in it that you use for this purpose. The brass also stretches during firing, so an eye has to be kept on the total length of the casing. Once it reaches a certain length it has to be trimmed. This is why reloading manuals always have a "Maximum Overall Length" and a "Trim-To Length" listed for a particular cartridge.
Brass casings are used because they offer the advantage of being self-annealing. That is to say that when a cartridge is fired the heat and pressure helps to stop cracks. This is why you can use and re-use brass many, many times before the casing finally fails.
Other materials, such as aluminum, are used for casings, but this type is specifically designed not to be reloaded. It is cheaper and designed to be used by casual shooters who don't want to spend their time policing their brass.
That being said, you can use brass w/o resizing it. However, you're looking at a disaster waiting to happen, also you will experience more stoppages w/this sort of sub-standard ammunition. (I know one person who is quite haphazard about his reloading. I'm waiting for him to have an accident that he won't walk away from since he's absolutely no loss to humanity.
)Cheers,
OTB
Wow, are you a marksman or something? You sure know a lot about guns! 
I have a question:
Why do .357 Mercury Tipped bullets heads are made out of several layers? I opened one up and I started pulling different color layers. One looked like copper, other like bronze, another was red, one was black, and in the center there was a little cylinder with some mercury.
Is that normal?
I have a question:
Why do .357 Mercury Tipped bullets heads are made out of several layers? I opened one up and I started pulling different color layers. One looked like copper, other like bronze, another was red, one was black, and in the center there was a little cylinder with some mercury.
Is that normal?
What i tried to say about the brass was that using it without (as you said) "resizing it" is that it would jam your weapon, or, in the case of a SMG, probably rip your hand to shreds
Being absolutely no marksman at all, I didn't knew such kits existed, but I was aware of the aluminium ones ,which in a post-apoc' environment would be useless, you need al ot of energy to process aluminium, not to mention the caseless ammo of Heckler & Koch's G11.
A solution for not having to pick up all the brass casings (in a rifle anyways) could be placing a receptacle for them at the place they're being ejected (ie. a bag of some sorts)?
Including the kits as an extremely prized item?
Being absolutely no marksman at all, I didn't knew such kits existed, but I was aware of the aluminium ones ,which in a post-apoc' environment would be useless, you need al ot of energy to process aluminium, not to mention the caseless ammo of Heckler & Koch's G11.
A solution for not having to pick up all the brass casings (in a rifle anyways) could be placing a receptacle for them at the place they're being ejected (ie. a bag of some sorts)?
Including the kits as an extremely prized item?