Unpopular Opinion and Discussion thread

Is this poll pointless?

  • Total voters
    125
SquiglyContiello said:
I prefer a complete simulation of how real life does randomness, with many background factors from physics to npcs and the dynamic world.
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But you understand that the engines use entropy for this; they have to. RNG percentile rolls represent —absolutely everything circumstantial... reduced to a difficulty number. The skill level of the PC is their measure of confidence, and competence to influence and control their situation; the lock picker's understanding of the mechanism, and the use of their available tools... It's the same for a manipulative speaker, and their skilled choice of wording.

The main problem with (for instance) thresholds, is that it creates infallible PCs, that are guaranteed success—or to always fail, until they improve. That's not accurate either.
 
SquiglyContiello said:
what is the problem with wanting simulated physics in a RPG?
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Absolutely nothing, but you need to understand that physics simulations and role-playing games are entirely distinct programming concepts.

SquiglyContiello said:
I prefer a complete simulation of how real life does randomness, with many background factors from physics to npcs and the dynamic world.
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Gizmo already touched on this, but there is currently no such way to replicate 'real life randomness' in a program without using dice rolls. It's simply the limitations of math and computer science as we know it. If you have a method outlining how to pull it off otherwise, then by all means, let me hear it. That's not rhetorical sarcasm either, I am genuinely curious as a game designer.
 
TerminallyChill said:
Gizmo already touched on this, but there is currently no such way to replicate 'real life randomness' in a program without using dice rolls. It's simply the limitations of math and computer science as we know it. If you have a method outlining how to pull it off otherwise, then by all means, let me hear it. That's not rhetorical sarcasm either, I am genuinely curious as a game designer.
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Mount and Blade came close to a simulated world, it's still a bit far but it's a good step in the right direction.
 
SquiglyContiello said:
Mount and Blade came close to a simulated world, it's still a bit far but it's a good step in the right direction.
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In what mechanic specifically though? I'm not personally familiar with Mount & Blade. I did read this off its wiki though:

Honor affects your interactions with other lords and causes certain events. A high honor can increase the likelihood of a mercenary accepting an offer, or of you being elected as marshall.

In what way do you think a computer program is able to 'increase the likelihood' of an event? This implies a random element exists behind the mechanic. I have no idea how integral this particular feature is to the game, but it does demonstrate that there is at least some form of random number generation going on in Mount & Blade. Maybe I'm missing the point you're getting at though.
 
SquiglyContiello said:
Mount and Blade came close to a simulated world, it's still a bit far but it's a good step in the right direction.
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My problem with it was how slow the grind was to getting to be a lord in the world. Not to mention the terrible side quests that involve chasing down some lord all while a timer ticks down or the fact you basically hardly ever get the castles you conquer so the king can give them off to lords that already have like 5 fiefs anyway. it doesn't feel realistic, it just felt frustrating and slow tbh.

Edit: I should probably explained myself on my earlier opinions too. For starters when I say fallout 3 is a good fallout game I mean it unlike 4 rather faithfully if you ask me carries over mechanics and systems over from the originals to a 3d fps world. I dont think the writing even compares to the original 2 in any regard but I dont think that makes it a bad game or a bad fallout game right off the bat. It has stats, choices (again not in the same capacity or quality as before but still a choice), exploration and is mostly faithful to the aesthetic and style of the previous games. Reason I do not consider 4 to be a good fallout game is limited choices (4 dialogue seriously??), perks (might as well called it Ubisofts fallout at that point), talking protagonist i=and set back story aren't a terrible thing (see witcher) but it could be handled much better but overall better writing than 3. I tend view RPG's more so from a mechanical sense than a clear cut narrative sense.

As for the table top comment. Yes I do know table top games are the BASIS for RPG's. However not every game needs to model itself to be an RPG in the same exact manor. There are plenty of RPG's with no choice (dark souls or system shock 2) or ones without traditional stat "+10 to strength" style mechanics.
 
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A system shock II hater do I detect? Whats that odor I detect? could it...could it be HERESY? :P

I loved the first one, especially for the way it is a truly seminal first-person cyberpunk adventure. II was good too. Definitely one game that had that 'creepy shit factor', the kind of thing where one would forever be looking over your shoulder, checking your six and ever ready to put a magazine of shotgun slugs into a nasty parasite-mutated, mangled atrocity sneaking up behind you just itching to rip your face off.

I confess I've still to replay it twice actually. I've never yet played any but the engineer type player character. Not the marine, or the psyker. I could see the marine being similar but that the play style for a psyker would be very, very different.

As for fallout, I've really been wanting to download and have a go with FO III, the greatly enhanced detail to survival mechanics looks enticing. A survival horror is one thing, but where its not simply collecting items or getting to one save spot after the next, and actually having to live off the land, purify your water, treat diseases and parasites if unlucky enough to catch one, by cutting the fruits and the plants from the ground and ripping the gizzards out of all manner of things that tried to do the same to you first; only to find themselves the ones being used for resources, and knowing how to prepare your meat and other assorted gore and guts, in order not to irradiate or poison yourself..the detail that went into that is impressive IMO, at least from what I read.

As for perks...well some perks are bound to be a bit wank aren't they? I've always thought the same thing about say 'bloody mess', right from its inception. It doesn't add functional, practical gains of any kind, and turning all kills into the most violent, squelchy death animation? that DECREASES the variety, since that soldier with bloody mess perk is now capable only of the biggest splattering deaths. Something they could inflict anyway from time to time and otherwise enjoy a variety of butchery and slaughter.
 
Urban Predator said:
...actually having to live off the land, purify your water, treat diseases and parasites if unlucky enough to catch one, by cutting the fruits and the plants from the ground and ripping the gizzards out of all manner of things that tried to do the same to you first; only to find themselves the ones being used for resources, and knowing how to prepare your meat and other assorted gore and guts, in order not to irradiate or poison yourself..the detail that went into that is impressive IMO, at least from what I read.
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All of the wonderful things that made the entire series so great.
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As for perks...well some perks are bound to be a bit wank aren't they? I've always thought the same thing about say 'bloody mess', right from its inception. It doesn't add functional, practical gains of any kind, and turning all kills into the most violent, squelchy death animation? that DECREASES the variety, since that soldier with bloody mess perk is now capable only of the biggest splattering deaths. Something they could inflict anyway from time to time and otherwise enjoy a variety of butchery and slaughter.
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It's there for those that want it; and it does change the ending.
(But I don't recall ever using it in a serious play-through.)

_
 
Urban Predator said:
As for fallout, I've really been wanting to download and have a go with FO III, the greatly enhanced detail to survival mechanics looks enticing. A survival horror is one thing, but where its not simply collecting items or getting to one save spot after the next, and actually having to live off the land, purify your water, treat diseases and parasites if unlucky enough to catch one, by cutting the fruits and the plants from the ground and ripping the gizzards out of all manner of things that tried to do the same to you first; only to find themselves the ones being used for resources, and knowing how to prepare your meat and other assorted gore and guts, in order not to irradiate or poison yourself..the detail that went into that is impressive IMO, at least from what I read.
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Uh, eh? You mean Fallout 3? None of this happens in the game. It's a game that is baby proof.
 
Supreme Shah Ismail said:
As for the table top comment. Yes I do know table top games are the BASIS for RPG's. However not every game needs to model itself to be an RPG in the same exact manor. There are plenty of RPG's with no choice (dark souls or system shock 2) or ones without traditional stat "+10 to strength" style mechanics.
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I think I know what you mean, but you aren't explaining it well. Dark Souls and System Shock 2 both have a ton of player choice from my understanding. And do you have an example for a role playing game that doesn't use statistics? I have never heard of one and I have extreme doubts over whether such a thing could technically exist.

If I understand you correctly though, I think what you're trying to say is that RPGs don't need to stick to arbitrary conventions, which is true. The kicker is, no matter how innovative you get with an RPG, you're still bound by the basic pillars created by table-top role playing games. The fundamentals just get hidden deeper and deeper into the code.
 
Mea culpa, I missed out typing another 'I' I was referring to the survival mode of FO IV

And as for baby proof-would that not be dependent upon the momentum with which the baby or babies were swung/thrown ?
 
Urban Predator said:
And as for baby proof-would that not be dependent upon the momentum with which the baby or babies were swung/thrown ?
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More like, a baby can play Fallout 3 and beat it just fine. There are barely any consequences throughout the entire game.
 
Out of new vegas, III and IV, which would people's vote go towards as the best one for the one to download next, after I finish Tactics, realism being IMO one of the things I'm looking for most? assuming of course I can find a suitable DL.
 
Urban Predator said:
Out of new vegas, III and IV, which would people's vote go towards as the best one for the one to download next, after I finish Tactics, realism being IMO one of the things I'm looking for most? assuming of course I can find a suitable DL.
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Most definitely New Vegas. It has even Hardcore mode and i assume you're interested in that because of a post of yours above.
 
Atleast FO4 was somewhat enjoyable as a looter shooter, I can't bare playing through 3's bullet sponges and quests again.
 
TerminallyChill said:
I think I know what you mean, but you aren't explaining it well. Dark Souls and System Shock 2 both have a ton of player choice from my understanding. And do you have an example for a role playing game that doesn't use statistics? I have never heard of one and I have extreme doubts over whether such a thing could technically exist.

If I understand you correctly though, I think what you're trying to say is that RPGs don't need to stick to arbitrary conventions, which is true. The kicker is, no matter how innovative you get with an RPG, you're still bound by the basic pillars created by table-top role playing games. The fundamentals just get hidden deeper and deeper into the code.
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Yeah thanks, what I was trying to get at sorry I didnt phrase it well enough
 
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