Unpopular Opinion and Discussion thread

[Supreme Shah Ismail]

Okay lets see, gonna piss off a few people right off the bat...

-Fallout 4 is actually enjoyable its just not a good Fallout game
-Fallout 3 is a fairly enjoyable game and Fallout game, peoples criticism and hate boners for it are kinda overblown
-Bethesda is probably one of the better publishers out there that has published some of my favorite games in recent years such as Prey, DOOM, Dishonored, New Vegas and etc. As a company trying to make a profit they arent in any sense good guys and have their fair share of shady stuff but their attention to single player and niche genres is admirable.
-Prey 2 was overrated and was never gonna come out. I hate the idea of defending some dumb game you never even played before because it was built by some people with a cool concept who made an average shooter a few years before. I will take Prey 2017 and more immersive sims over vaporware and turok but with aliens
-AAA games aren't that bad, every year quite a few good ones come out. Just because a few shitty franchises exist doesn't make them all bad
-Table top RPG's are not the be all end all of RPG game design
-Weapon durability is a dumb and annoying mechanic. I say this even as system shock 2 is my favorite game of all time with said mechanic. To be fair its also one of the less intrusive implementations of it but it still sucks wet arse.
-America isn't some invincible giant. One of these days a country is going to whoop their ass harder than Vietnam did.
-Hate for Islam are often ignorant, hypocritical, cherry picked evidence and short sighted
-Games can have weak gameplay but good interactive narrative/characters/story/choice and be good. Reverse is also true as games with shit story but great gameplay can also be just as good as the most well written games.
-that said I still wish Planescape Torment had better gameplay
-remakes are fine so long as it doesn't fuck with the original concept too much it can reintroduce a classic to a newer generation in a more accessible way and keep the passion for the game alive.
-I like bbq over tomato sauce on pizza, it tastes just as good if not better
-muh lore and muh choice is weak sauce criticism that could be way better said and isnt that big of a deal


I probably repeated some things I have already said but fuck it is been awhile

 

[R.Graves]

-Fallout 4 is actually enjoyable its just not a good Fallout game

I mean i can't argue taste. But in terms of entertainment value I found it slightly above borderlands.

-Fallout 3 is a fairly enjoyable game and Fallout game, peoples criticism and hate boners for it are kinda overblown

It's not 100% clear but if you're saying fallout 3 is a good fallout game I just need to tell you you're wrong.

 

[Norzan]

People can like Fallout 3 all they want but given the context of the franchise, Fallout 3 is not objectively a good Fallout game. It fails at a very basic level of Fallout and a RPG as a whole.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Now that's an unpopular opinion! Well outside of this forum that is ...

 

[TerminallyChill]

Table top RPG's are not the be all end all of RPG game design

In what respect exactly? Of course things can be updated, tweaked, modified, or subverted but ultimately rule systems in the vein of Dungeons & Dragons define what makes something a role playing game or not. I wouldn't start a band that used acoustic guitars and describe myself as synthpop. It's just not being honest. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and say this statement needs further explanation, but as it stands now this just sounds ignorant to me. People seem to be confusing RPGs with games in completely different genres that have RPG elements lately. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the latter, but tabletop style RPGs are the only RPGs by definition. At least from my understanding.

America isn't some invincible giant. One of these days a country is going to whoop their ass harder than Vietnam did.

I don't really think this is that unpopular anywhere except maybe Montana and Alabama.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I would consider any game that has the following, to be considerable as an RPG:

• Has an in depth definition of one or more characters (with at least one of them player controlled); each must include their strengths, weaknesses, and minimal motivations.
• Presents situations where the player may extrapolate how the character(s) might behave in them, and supports many (or at least a few) of those assumptions with optional actions for those characters; and with suitable reactions, and consequences by the environment, and/or affected NPCs if any.
  
• Enforces character limitations in these situations; and in general.

Noteworthy (deliberate) omissions from the list:
(All of which are probably a good idea to have, but not a requirement)

• Good/Evil/Neutral or balanced (shades of gray) paths.
• Leveling up
• Specific mechanics; which could include impartial dice rolls—and this is my preferred option.
• Custom user created Player Characters
• Open World/ as opposed to linear world (on rails).

In essence, one can make an RPG of a naked man alone in a otherwise empty room with no exits... so long as one provides the above three requirements; ...and having the empty room qualifies for #2, where adding another NPC would demand additional reaction states for both characters, and not qualify without them.

This doesn't guarantee it to be a fun RPG; but it supports roleplaying.

Depending on the treatment, such a game wouldn't have to be boring. A lot of decisions could be put to the player, with some careful and creative thought put into it.
____
Edit:
Papillon:The RPG

 

[a721402]

-Words like "There are people out there do something much awful than X do so X is not that bad." is a poor attend to defend something.
-Claims certain game is your all time favorite don't actually make your argument stronger, it do however could make you looks like a mimic.
-I actually want the originally planned version of Doom 4 to come out.
-We could really use the same kind of rating system on RPG Codex.

 

[TerminallyChill]

I would consider any game that has the following, to be considerable as an RPG:

• Has an in depth definition of one or more characters (with at least one of them player controlled); each must include their strengths, weaknesses, and minimal motivations.
• Presents situations where the player may extrapolate how the character(s) might behave in them, and supports many (or at least a few) of those assumptions with optional actions for those characters; and with suitable reactions, and consequences by the environment, and/or affected NPCs if any.
  
• Enforces character limitations in these situations; and in general.

I think it might be even simpler than that, but I like where you are going. To be an RPG in my eyes:

1. The player must actually assume the role of something by having control over it
2. Choices must be presented that significantly alter the narrative and/or gameplay
3. Outcomes of decisions are evaluted based on a structured ruleset

That's based on table-top philosophies which are solely responsible for the concept of a role-playing game in the first place. To push TTRPGs out of the equation reduces the term "RPG" to nothing more than a meaningless buzzword.

We could really use the same kind of rating system on RPG Codex.

*Fabulously Optimistic*

 

[Deleted member 116369]

TTRPG design is just one way of creating an RPG.
Most mechanics in TTRPGs like rulesets, dungeon masters, and rolls are their as an alternative for the lack of ability for a board game to simulate a living world and its physics.
There is very little reason for Video Games to rely on systems built for tabletop games, devs should build on Mount and Blade and Deus Ex and use the technology to create even more detailed and highly reactive worlds that continue to live and move without player action and give more options for character creation.
But of course, most game devs these days idea of technologically advance games is 4K30fps and Cinematic Photorealism.
An RPG that mixes a more improved system of Mount and Blade and the physics system of BOTW with a more detailed character creation system that let's players customize everything from backstory, reflexes, vision, weight, and other stuff would be imo the perfect RPG.

 

[TerminallyChill]

TTRPG design is just one way of creating an RPG.
Most mechanics in TTRPGs like rulesets, dungeon masters, and rolls are their as an alternative for the lack of ability for a board game to simulate a living world and its physics.
There is very little reason for Video Games to rely on systems built for tabletop games, devs should build on Mount and Blade and Deus Ex and use the technology to create even more detailed and highly reactive worlds that continue to live and move without player action and give more options for character creation.

But games like Deus Ex do rely heavily on sets of rules inspired by the philosophy of TTRPGS. For example, the game checks whether or not a guard can detect JC or Adam based on certain attributes chosen by the player and then systematically responds. Whether or not it 'looks' like a TTRPG on the surface, that's ultimately how the game is coded. The computer is just acting as a behind-the-scenes dungeon master in this case. Random number generators are just virtual dice rolls.

For this reason alone I would categorize Deus Ex as a role-playing game strictly based on the way it logically operates.

 

[Deleted member 116369]

But games like Deus Ex do rely heavily on sets of rules inspired by the philosophy of TTRPGS. For example, the game checks whether or not a guard can detect JC or Adam based on certain attributes chosen by the player and then systematically responds. Whether or not it 'looks' like a TTRPG on the surface, that's ultimately how the game is coded. The computer is just acting as a behind-the-scenes dungeon master in this case. Random number generators are just virtual dice rolls.

For this reason alone I would categorize Deus Ex as a role-playing game strictly based on the way it logically operates.

An RPG doesnt need to use rng thou

 

[TerminallyChill]

An RPG doesnt need to use rng thou

No, but most games use some form of RNG in general. It's psychologically what makes them exciting. Name me a game you like that doesn't include some random element.

 

[a721402]

An RPG that mixes a more improved system of Mount and Blade and the physics system of BOTW with a more detailed character creation system that let's players customize everything from backstory, reflexes, vision, weight, and other stuff would be imo the perfect RPG.

First, take a look at the character creation system of Mount and Blade:

Second, Legend of Zelda series are Action Adventure games, it's not a RPG, not even a JRPG.
The dream game of yours will be either still a RPG rely heavily on sets of rules inspired by the philosophy of TTRPGS, or just an Action-Adventure game like zelda which is not a RPG in anyway.

 

[President_Peaches]

The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd and Bowie are a bit pretentious and don't deserve the Everest-high mountains of praise ladled upon them.

 

[Deleted member 116369]

No, but most games use some form of RNG in general. It's psychologically what makes them exciting. Name me a game you like that doesn't include some random element.

I didnt say randomness is bad, I mean randomness by dice is almost pointless in a video game when you can use systems or even better dynamic a.i/worlds.

First, take a look at the character creation system of Mount and Blade:

Second, Legend of Zelda series are Action Adventure games, it's not a RPG, not even a JRPG.
The dream game of yours will be either still a RPG rely heavily on sets of rules inspired by the philosophy of TTRPGS, or just an Action-Adventure game like zelda which is not a RPG in anyway.

I'm not refering to the character creation of M&B, I'm refering to how the world acts and I'm not saying Zelda is an RPG, what I ment by that is for a more advanced and detailed verion BOTW physics to be placed in an RPG.

 

[a721402]

I'm not refering to the character creation of M&B, I'm refering to how the world acts

Except the world of Mount and Blade is based on your attributes and actions in the past to react which is just like how most CRPGs/TTRPGs works.

I'm not saying Zelda is an RPG, what I ment by that is for a more advanced and detailed verion BOTW physics to be placed in an RPG.

So what you actually want is just an action-adventure game with some RPG elements instead an actual RPG, got it.

 

[TerminallyChill]

The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd and Bowie are a bit pretentious and don't deserve the Everest-high mountains of praise ladled upon them.

The Beatles and the Rolling Stones? Yeah. They're good but certainly overrated. Hell, the Kinks even beat them at their own game in some respects. Floyd and David Bowie are a different story though. They were both extremely innovative for their time.

I didnt say randomness is bad, I mean randomness by dice is almost pointless in a video game when you can use systems or even better dynamic a.i/worlds.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess you don't understand how artificial intelligence is programmed in games. Because if you did, you would realize why I laughed so hard when I read this. Are you just talking about real life dice like a D6 or a D20? Because then yeah, those numbers are absolutely arbitrary. You could have "D74s" and "D5000s" rolling behind the scenes in a game if you wanted to. Ultimately though, even in an amazing computer simulation, it's the D981362 under the hood that controls your dynamic AI world.

 

[Gizmojunk]

An RPG doesnt need to use rng thou

...But it should.

There are PnP RPGs that don't, but I think those are best left to human game-masters. The whole point of a weighted RNG system is to have utter impartiality... affected only by the PC's personal ability to control a situation; (their stats & skills). RNGs are a natural choice for this; and computers do it well—enough.

 

[President_Peaches]

The Beatles and the Rolling Stones? Yeah. They're good but certainly overrated. Hell, the Kinks even beat them at their own game in some respects. Floyd and David Bowie are a different story though. They were both extremely innovative for their time.

Fair enough, I think the reason that the Beatles and the Stones have got so much praise and renown is because they managed to breakthrough in the US, unlike many of their contemporaries. i find that Roger Water's lyrics can be a bit too edgy and angsty for me like.

 

[Deleted member 116369]

Except the world of Mount and Blade is based on your attributes and actions in the past to react which is just like how most CRPGs/TTRPGs works.

So what you actually want is just an action-adventure game with some RPG elements instead an actual RPG, got it.

I mean how the world moves around regardless of player action in M&B, also what is the problem with wanting simulated physics in a RPG?

...But it should.

There are PnP RPGs that don't, but I think those are best left to human game-masters. The whole point of a weighted RNG system is to have utter impartiality... affected only by the PC's personal ability to control a situation; (their stats & skills). RNGs are a natural choice for this; and computers do it well—enough.

I prefer a complete simulation of how real life does randomness, with many background factors from physics to npcs and the dynamic world.