Venting about Fallout fandom

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The Courier

The Courier

Blain is a pain.
Just wanted to get this out. What is it with the black and white views on this game series? Now, I'm not calling anyone here out, that is not my intention. This has more to do with opinions I've seen echoed everywhere from here to proverbial Timbuktu. I myself have always approached the series lightheartedly; what adventures will I get up to in the wasteland today? While I prefer the West Coast Fallout's literature-esque brand of world building, Fallout 3 was a perfectly suitable, if shallow, experience. So, generally, I just like good games. However, the endless conflicts between Fallout 3 fanboys whom cannot take an ounce of criticism and original Fallout fanboys for whom cynicism has become an occupation, has done nothing but wear down the reputation of a fun, unique series of games.

The fact that I cannot so much as comment on a video/article of Fallout 4 without it branching into a massive war between whining newbies and bitter old guards is more than a little disheartening. And I know, I know-it's the internet. Except it's not just the internet. Featuring an opinion-dissenting or otherwise-on a Fallout game in any setting seems to have become a crime worthy of crucifixion. How can a series of generally high quality games with such humorous, wonderful setups become such a den of wolves? I'm just so sick of the "I don't wanna think, I just wanna shoot stuffs!" and the "Boo-hoo, games aren't like they were in 90's!".

It's not the opinions I'm sick of, (I have my share, as this post indicates, and I am certainly guilty of hypocrisy here and there, especially here.) I'm sick of the hostile, biting ways in which they must be discussed. Nothing can just be a calm, simple exchange of thought. It always results in argument after argument after argument, in which no side has gained insight and everyone remains in their little bubbles, ignorant and scorned.

To close, I'm sorry if this upset anyone. And I need no answers as to why all this is, the reasons are obvious. Human nature. Ironically, that oh-so quotable line, "War, war never changes." is applicable in so many ways. Frankly, I just needed to vent. All the negativity and ignorance has just been stacking up in so many places that I think it just needed said, even if it is public knowledge. Again, sorry if this was bothersome in any way. Does anyone happen to agree? And if not, why? For discussion's sake.
 
Just yesterday I spotted someone on Youtube talking about killing people, over wether or not they liked Fallout 4

Thankfully, this forum is well moderated :D
 
Besides some particularly virulent cynicism and occasional bursts of ignorance-fueled naivete, it's not so bad compared to less looked after places. Ironic given the rep this site's gained over time, isn't it? :razz:
 
It's a pretty serious problem throughout all of games that people can't just say "that's just, like, your opinion man" and get on with their lives.

When I first played Fallout 3, and people asked me what I thought my response was something like "I thought it was a pretty good game, I just don't think it was a very good Fallout game" and people (who had never played a Fallout game) got really mad about it. For whatever reason there's this deep seated sense of tribalism in video games where people feel obligated to defend products or companies even though they actually derive no benefit from doing such.

For the most part, whether or not you like a game is more about whether the game is compatible with you, than about how good it is on any pseudo-objective scale. I appreciate reading, thinking, observing, and planning in games so stuff like the old school Fallout games are 100% my bag. I get that a lot of people don't like reading, thinking, etc. and they just want to feel powerful and go on an adventure, and it's fine that they feel that way, but it's not the only way to be and it'd be better if people would realize it.

There are good and bad things about every game, it's just a shame that nobody anywhere seems to be able to discuss these things calmly.
 
they're annoying on both sides though, the fallout fanboys are annoying but the bethesda fanboys are equally annoying
 
Let me pose you a question, oh righteous OP.

How would you feel if Furcon 2016 or whatever it is you enjoy in your spare time was cancelled, re-branded as an entirely different deviant sexual fetish (Let's go with Watersports Con 2016), you gave it a shot, didn't like it, voiced your opinion and was then told to "Get over it, pretending to be anthromorphic animals isn't in anymore" - how would you feel big boy?
 
Good question-I don't go to cons. A more apt comparison would be a real thing that happened: the sudden cancellation of Megaman Legends 3 which led many of it's fans to swear off Capcom. The same goes for their treatment of the character and many of their other franchises. I personally have not given them a dime of my money since. However I don't spend my time seeking out the many who have told me to "get over it" and beat them over the head with it, despite it having been around a nine years or so wait when they yanked that from us. There is no reason to become confrontational, that is all I'm stating here. Especially amongst the users-whatever beef you may have with the IP holders has little to do with whatever fanboys they've accrued.

I'm hardly righteous, I have been involved in many arguments of the sort. I was hardly entertained by Fallout 3's obsession with black and white karmic choices, lame player character whom can only respond in one manner written differently four times, Enclave on par with the Empire in Star Wars, etc. What I'm getting at is how it is a waste of breath to make it into a fight. Nothing is gained, except high blood pressure, likely. Discussion can always be civil.

This is not targeted at either side of the equation-Fallout fanboys or Bethesda fanboys. Unfortunately, we've all ended up in the same boat. And at this rate, it's well below the water's surface. As such, it would be nice to see everyone quit kicking and biting each other for a moment and listen to one another.
 
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To tell you the truth, I wasn't expecting you to reply with anything remotely resembling a sense of humor. I know this doesn't mean anything to you, but I was about to ignore your account but now that I haven't - I've been pleasantly surprised.

I can't do anything about Megaman unfortunately, but if you ever want to go halfsies on a W-CON ticket with me let me know, ok? :ok:
 
Sarcasm is a second language to me, it didn't get under my skin. Too much, anyway. Just enough to respond, I suppose. :razz:

Well, I'm happy you didn't ignore me entirely. I strive to not come off as a simpering moron when I post things, but shit happens. To be honest, I expected a lot more flak my way for this thread, as I'm sure it's the thousandth of it's kind. With a bit less Bethesda blowing involved.

Also, just to make a statement, as I think it often comes off the other way, I don't really mind Bethesda. Though Todd Howard is an idiot and whomever has written for Elder Scrolls since it's loremaster departed needs smacked around and replaced. Or forced to read nothing but JRR Tolkien, RA Salvatore and Andrzej Sapkowski in a broom closet until he realizes how fantasy is written. Or at least flogged. A good flogging never set anyone on the wrong path.
 
I don't hate Bethesda either, despite how I feel about them as a company. I remember back sometime in 2008 my girlfriend and I were going to blockbuster to rent a movie on a friday or saturday night, and she saw a big poster for the upcoming Fallout 3. She said "Isn't that a sequel to those old games you play all the time?" (We had prior conversations about Fallout, when she had asked me what some of my favorite games were).

I told her that I didn't have any expectations for what it was going to be, because I've been aware of the game (the changing video game industry) for as long as I can remember, seen many favorite franchises die, get re-branded, go in another direction etc. She asked me to explain further and my only analogue I could give her was something like "What if Stephenie Meyer got hold of an old unfinished Kurt Vonnegut script through a bankruptcy auction and decided to finish and release 'The Cats Cradle part 2' or something with a bunch of weird dick, fart and piss jokes. That would probably make you a little mad huh."

Anyways, point being Bethesda buying the IP an doing whatever with Fallout is what it is. Obviously I'm not happy with it but unlike the masses of youtube/kotaku/gamefaqs kids think, it hasn't become my life. Of course I, and many others still mourn the passing and potential of what could have been concerning Fallout, but last I learned back during Death and Dying class at my community college - there is no time limit to grieving.

I guess my original issue with your post was that it kinda came off like every other F03 tirade I've heard since 2008, I'm happy that it wasn't though. I misread it.
 
It's no problem, that's partially my fault. Rereading it now, it's a very cluttered, meandering post. I can understand why you'd take me as yet another Fallout 3 fanboy complaining to people I've never met about disliking a game I like on a site I don't participate on.

It came from frustration on my part that even attempting to be positive about any aspect of modern Fallout will either be cynically torn apart by old fans-a group I count myself a member of, ironically- or my words will be used against me by the newer fans because I would like the parts of Fallout 3/NV that didn't work either revamped or deleted. And then all this would snowball into a useless flame war, blah, blah, blah. So I apologize that the post is so cluttered, but so was my thought process whilst writing it.
 
Yeah Courier, too much hostility in the discussions. I tend to avoid some threads on NMA for that reason. I happen to love the FO1 & 2 and New Vegas, FO games from both companies. I also dislike FO Tactics and am a little disappointed by FO3, also games from both companies. I don't generally express these opinions here because I don't want anyone to throw acid on me and set me on fire! :wink:

I wish the climate was more temperate and less temperamental.
 
Seems to be a deep-seated love for something and a dislike of change to a FPSRPG V.S. lack of knowledge and experience of that which the other party loves, and a dislike of change to an turn-based RPG
 
Marionettetc said:
I don't hate Bethesda either, despite how I feel about them as a company.
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I actually kind of like Bethesda, I mean the one kind of game they make is pretty fun. It's just that the game they make is really more of a "power fantasy theme park" than an actual RPG, but "power fantasy theme park" is something with near universal appeal (just look how well Skyrim sold). Fallout 3 is a fun game, and even good in parts (the feeling of wandering through ruins, when you're not talking to anybody, doing anything related to the main quest, or fighting for no reason is great), it's just not a very good Fallout game.

What's worth criticising though is the stuff that Bethesda really has no excuse for not doing better (like how the Fallout 3 story was nonsensical, and how they so rarely write memorable characters) and how people slavishly defend these games as though admitting that they are not flawless would invalidate their enjoyment of Fallout 3 or Skyrim or whatever. Bethesda has an opportunity to make up for a lot of this if Fallout 4 is actually smart, funny, and has good characters. Not sure about the fans though.
 
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Moosick said:
Seems to be a deep-seated love for something and a dislike of change to a FPSRPG V.S. lack of knowledge and experience of that which the other party loves, and a dislike of change to an turn-based RPG
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It's just my opinion, but reading the posts from the other "old farts" here, it's really more to the do with the fact all the original writers didn't work on FO3. I like first person shooters, a lot of us do - we're not stuck in the 90's. We just don't like a lot of the subtle things that made Fallout sparkle weren't there in 3.
 
Marionettetc said:
Moosick said:
Seems to be a deep-seated love for something and a dislike of change to a FPSRPG V.S. lack of knowledge and experience of that which the other party loves, and a dislike of change to an turn-based RPG
Click to expand...

It's just my opinion, but reading the posts from the other "old farts" here, it's really more to the do with the fact all the original writers didn't work on FO3. I like first person shooters, a lot of us do - we're not stuck in the 90's. We just don't like a lot of the subtle things that made Fallout sparkle weren't there in 3.
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Writing would be my primary complaint as well.
 
Yeah, it's mine too, but in my limited experience, when a hardcore fan community of _____ gets an overhaul of their fan-subject, there's a definite "it's different and therefore RUINED" air to it all at times. But as that guy did the 'why TES has dumbed down' video I agree that's also the case with 3. When you 'pit' that against people not used to iso-turn games or the lore, that's where the hostility comes due to frustration on both sides.
 
I agree. To be honest, the baseline gameplay of Fallout 3 interests me more than most classic CRPG's isometric, turn-based designs. One of my favorite games growing up was Deus Ex, so the many, many similarities work for me. Melding Deus Ex with Fallout's Retro-furturistic post apocalypse is a pretty winning concept with me. It helps that Bethesda's art team is pretty damn good.

However, as said above, it's that awful dialogue and story writing that really hampers it. If it had merely been bland, that'd been fine. Honestly, except for The Master, the original's main story beats were neither unique or even particularly great. But they were very well composed. The story's logic was consistent and the way it wove into the player's game was smooth as silk. Fallout 3's story has more plot holes than the moon has craters. It's filled with holes, logical inconsistencies, lore-mistakes and most damning of all, it's forced down your throat. There are very few story elements you can just stumble upon-there is a specific order the story must be experienced. And this hurts the wide-open feel the originals cultivated. Not to mention your character is an ignorant man-child and there's nothing you can do about it. Okay, rant over. Just getting my two cents in. lol
 
TBH NV excels in every area but exploration compared to F3. The map is too small, there are no random encounters, and, like most Bethedsa games, you have to mod in the stuff they couldn't finish in time. Then there's places like North Vegas where literally fucking nothing happens.

I have higher hopes for F4, though. Some glaring errors but Todd Howard must've been ecstatic after that conference. Just hope they actually make a finished game this time, which, considering the attention to what modders have done (that 'make your own village' thing is absolutely influenced by the support for it on Nexus). I'd like to see more radio channels and more songs, too. And gameplay which doesn't fall under 'piss easy' on Hardcore. But if they make the map too large... well, it's already going to be a game without focus. But I can dig that.

Fallout 3 falls in line with games like Skyrim, Far Cry 3 (less so), Bioshock Infinite etc - very nice to look at, and damn exciting on the first play if you suspend disbelief, but it ages horribly. Its strength over them is the aesthetics and memorability is has, which is much higher imo.
 
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