War news.

[Ozrat]

You scared me for a moment APTYP... I thought you had become one of them!

But seriously, who would be stupid enough to think that the US started WWII when they had to be attacked just to join it. There was another letter saying that Canada's political system is way more democratic than the US's. For those who are living here in Canukia, we all should know that this is a big joke, especially with Jean "Crossiant" leading the country. Uhh, what's that? Potentially being able to stay in power forever? Kick your own MPs out if they say something against the party's view? Even what he says about the Iraq situation is screwy.

Not to mention ignoring when somebody in the Liberal party says something like "Damn Americans, I hate those bastards", he does nothing. This Anti-Americanism is horrible since the youngsters my age pick it up fast, just like smoking. They don't know any better, they're not educating themselves on world issues, and its the cool thing to do. There's some people at my university who are literally camping out inside the student center with a huge sign that says "Stop the war! Over 700,000 children have died already!" This was hanging up for weeks before somebody realized how stupid it was and added a little sign next to it that said "Because of sanctions over the last 12 years." *Sigh*

 

[Brother None]

Anti-Americanism tends to be rather mindless, it's just a wave, a movement that rolls on with hords of people screaming "America is evil!" "Bush = Hitler" "Who's the real terrorist now" and the like.

But, mind, this is simply a reaction on pro-Americanism, which has been running amok through the world at least as much as anti-Americanism is and is at least as stupid as anti-Americanism; "the USA is the greatest country of the world!" "Communism is pure evil!"

Both sides are obviously wrong as they will not (and probably will never) really look at the arguments of the other side. If you only have a one-track set minds, you're bound to wrong at least half of the time.

Damned, ouzo is good stuff.

On a related note; I've discussed the American system with Xotor often enough, and I do believe that the "competition" (so to speak) between the president and the congress/senate is a healthy thing that the Rhineland-model democracy lacks (the type of democracy used in Holland and Germany, as opposed to the Anglo-American model).

But the Anglo-American model doesn't allow equal represenation of large groups in its country, it only allows for two, at most three, political parties that will then automatically even out on all issues, preventing any form of political radicalism (?)

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

"Stop the war! Over 700,000 children have died already!" This was hanging up for weeks before somebody realized how stupid it was and added a little sign next to it that said "Because of sanctions over the last 12 years." *Sigh*

It's even more stupid when you factor in that Iraq has sold billions of dollars with of oil since the UN's Oil for Food program. Oh, and it gets even more stupid when you factor in that Saddam's built 46 new palaces since those sanctions were implimented, including some with artificial lakes. Oh, and willy nilly stupid when you consider all the UNICEF food and medicine that was stockpiled in Saddam's son's palace.. I think it was the one with the private zoo.

 

[AdamG]

If you want know what is meant by "Bush=Hitler", go here.
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

 

[Ugly John]

There was another letter saying that Canada's political system is way more democratic than the US's. For those who are living here in Canukia, we all should know that this is a big joke, especially with Jean "Crossiant" leading the country.

Don't you mean Canuckasthan?

Chretien is doing his job, keeping us in our place. I think we should have gone to war, but that's my opinion. We elected the guy to take these desicions. So in a democraty he speaks for the majority of the Canadians.
I had at work this girl who was saying that war is stupid and we should all get along. When i asked her if it would have been better to let Saddam (substitute any name ie Laden, Hitler ...) arm himself and bring the war here, she went back to saying that war is stupid.

My oppinion on war is:
You either support it over there or endure it here.

 

[Ozrat]

We elected the guy to take these desicions. So in a democraty he speaks for the majority of the Canadians.

Correct me if I'm wrong since I've only been living in the land of Maple Syrup for 8 months, but no you didn't vote for Jean. You voted for your local MPs and their political party. Whichever party gets the majority in Canada as a whole gets to pick a Prime Minister without the people voting for him/her. Then the PM gets to stay in office for a term without a limit! Sure, it's usually only 3-5 years, but there's still no limit! Not only that, but the PM can call for an election whenever (s)he wants to! This is usually done when their ratings are sky-high and have no chance of losing. Jean has been in power for 10 years now, and he's retiring in like 5 months right? So what happens? No, there's no new election, the Liberal Party just goes and picks a new PM to finish off the old term. How can you truly call that democratic?

Also, Jean doesn't represent the majority of Canadians, as I have been reading polls that say most people here actually support the war or believe that Canada should be backing up the US.

 

[AdamG]

So every single poll you read must be true? Every single time I was ever called by a pollster they hung up before I could give them my vote. Also, I have only 1 relative who may support these wars, but I've never asked him.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Apr/04162003/commenta/commenta.asp

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/1998/msg00219.html

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2003-04/17/article08.shtml

 

[Ugly John]

We elected the guy to take these desicions. So in a democraty he speaks for the majority of the Canadians.

but no you didn't vote for Jean. You voted for your local MPs and their political party. ?

Also, Jean doesn't represent the majority of Canadians, as I have been reading polls that say most people here actually support the war or believe that Canada should be backing up the US.

If i would not have wanted JC up there i would have voted for the other party, wich means that here in Quebeckasthan, i could have voted for le Bloc Quebecois, or the conservatives.
Just this week we elected a new pm in quebec, i did not like the PQ (partie Quebecois) so i voted against them, by voting liberal. I could have just easily wasted my vote on ADQ, but i didn't .
However, yes JC does stand for the majority of canadian and as far as being elected he got a majority unlike Bush.

Since you weren't here last federal election, we did all that elction thing in a day.

 

[Ozrat]

Okay, but you still haven't said that you actually voted for JC. You didn't even know who the Liberal Party would pick for being the PM either now, did you? Or admitted the fact that whoever the PM is can decide when THEY want to hold an election, not when the public wants one. Hmmm, and what about the fact that Jean can fire any of the MPs whenever he feels like it, even though it's the people that voted them into the job? Apparently MPs have been fired left and right just because they don't vote for something the way that Jean wanted them to.

I'm not a republican or Bush fan, but I still know that he didn't lose. Yes, Bush "lost" the last election if we're going by the total number of votes. But that's not how it works. They go by something about the number of voting areas that he won in. This system is still flawed, as it was designed for an 18th century population level and polotics, but it is still much better than the Canadian system. Why? Because in Canadian elections, every single provience can vote for the same party, but it is really up to Quebec and Ontario since they have the vast majority of the population in them. How can you say that whoever is PM represents the country? Or better yet, how can you say that Canada is more democratic?

On another note... If Jean is so popular, then why is he leaving his job? Maybe because the population is fed up with the way he's been "leading" the country for the last 10 years? Don't be fooled by my short time living in this other-than-that-wonderful country... I know a lot about Canadian polotics than most people my own age do as I have several relatives who are very knowledgable in this field and have 3 newspapers arrive at my doorsteps every day.

 

[*The REAL Devil*]

War, war never changes

 

[Brother None]

I'm not a republican or Bush fan, but I still know that he didn't lose. Yes, Bush "lost" the last election if we're going by the total number of votes. But that's not how it works. They go by something about the number of voting areas that he won in. This system is still flawed, as it was designed for an 18th century population level and polotics, but it is still much better than the Canadian system.

America has a false democracy, dammit. How can you even dare call something democratic when the bloody president has been elected by a minority? Seriously, man...

I mean, some Rhineland model countries (Switzerland, I believe) have minority government, but they're always backed by a majority of the parties and thus a majority of the people.

I don't know about the Canadian system, though. But I'll say one thing; if the majority of the people live in two cities, then it's only natural for the government to represent those two cities. Say 70% of the people live in that area, and 90% of those voted for the government, then that's still more people backing up the government than the 50.000001% that American presidents have.

 

[Ugly John]

Okay, but you still haven't said that you actually voted for JC. You didn't even know who the Liberal Party would pick for being the PM either now, did you? Or admitted the fact that whoever the PM is can decide when THEY want to hold an election, not when the public wants one. Hmmm, and what about the fact that Jean can fire any of the MPs whenever he feels like it, even though it's the people that voted them into the job? Apparently MPs have been fired left and right just because they don't vote for something the way that Jean wanted them to.
.

The party leader is known before the elections unlike the united states way. We know well in advance who the leader of the Liberal is. They are right now "racing" to elect a new leader when JC leaves in about 10 months. So again if i had not wanted JC up there i would have voted for another party.
Yes the PM decides when the election is to be held. They also have guideline as to when they have to call it. Also they are not stupid, of course who would not wait until they are favorable to be elected before declaring an election.
Yes the PM can fire a minister if he wants to. It's his right. However that minister stays an elected deputy, so it's democratic. We don't tell him who's the best man to be that and that minstry head.
Quebec and Ontario are the majority in Canada, So even if all the other provinces elected other people, the PM can be elected, sometimes in a minority (of seats) governement.
Last, welcome to Canada, i did not say that you don't know anything about our system, but you might not know enough to form the correct opinion on it. As for the newspaper, you can get 8 every morning, but if your read just the cartoons and the tabloyds, they don't quite give you the right information.

 

[Ozrat]

I realize that America has a false democracy and I would never dream to claim that it does. I wouldn't even claim that it has the best model of a democracy currently in the world either. If you look it up, it's actually a Federal Republic. I believe I also said that it is sadly outdated for today's world.

UJ, I understand what you said about the newspapers, and yes I still read the comics, but it doesn't stop there. I get two municipal papers plus a national one. My aunt happens to work at one of these papers. I think that may be a step above the tabloids.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying its the PM's right to fire an elected MP if he wants to. They're still being fired because of their opinion and how they're representing their district. Can you also explain the elected deputy part to me? The whole point of an election is to let the citizens decide what they want, not what the PM wants whenever they want it.

Sure, Bush got slightly less than 50% of the popular vote, but Chretien didn't even get 40% of the votes. That means he represents around 1/3 of the Canadian population that bothered to vote.

From what I understand, his biggest activites as of late have been the Gun Registry and French Bilingualism efforts, both of which have cause much public outcry and are wasting BILLIONS of Canadian dollars that can be added to the education and health systems. Quebec is the only provience that has a major french speaking population, so why force the governments in every single other area of Canada to hire french-speaking officials? Heck, you could even add it to the military and prevent it from crumbling to pieces. I haven't heard a lot of supporters for either projects.

Hmm, this isn't about the "war" anymore, is it? If we need/want to continue Canadian politics, let's start another thread...

 

[Ugly John]

UJ, I understand what you said about the newspapers, and yes I still read the comics, but it doesn't stop there. I get two municipal papers plus a national one. My aunt happens to work at one of these papers. I think that may be a step above the tabloids. ...

That was a Joke.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying its the PM's right to fire an elected MP if he wants to. They're still being fired because of their opinion and how they're representing their district. Can you also explain the elected deputy part to me? The whole point of an election is to let the citizens decide what they want, not what the PM wants whenever they want it....

Well, even in the US, the citizens don't tell the President who to put up as finance "minister"(i don't remember the term). Also you have a lot of lobying, where here it's very limited. So the Agricultural minister doesn not get his arm twisted by large powerfull lobyist, just small ones, so he can make the rules/laws more easily.
So the PM makes his cabinet amonsgts elected deputy in his party. These deputy becomes minister. So If the PM decides to fire a minister, he remains in the house as an elected deputy, not a minister. He has the same voting power as any one other elected deputy or minister.

Sure, Bush got slightly less than 50% of the popular vote, but Chretien didn't even get 40% of the votes. That means he represents around 1/3 of the Canadian population that bothered to vote.

But he did get more than 50% of the seats. We can't separte Canada in equaly divided county, in wich the population is going to be the same. One of Toronto's county has more population than PEI. So some county do get more votes than others.
IT's not perfect, but we do our elections in a day.

Quebec is the only provience that has a major french speaking population, so why force the governments in every single other area of Canada to hire french-speaking officials?

Because they force Quebec official to be bilingual. Our Country has two official language French and English. So if you are an elected official, you have to speak (or at least understand) Both official language.

Hmm, this isn't about the "war" anymore, is it? If we need/want to continue Canadian politics, let's start another thread...

why, this a perfectly good thread, in fact changing subject is the running gag on this board, And all the old timers, including myself can vouch for it. We once turned a spelling thread in a medical (or something like that) thread.