We're internet famous!

Diarmada said:
Kharn, did you listen to the January 31st edition, it had some stuff on F3 as well, a few points (around the 37 minute mark)....

That would've been more useful then ;)

Bernard said:
Kharn, they seem to see not only youself as being representitive of the community, but also as the community of being representative of you. They haven't understood the context of the article, or really who you are and how you represent yourself, and in so doing they've simply resorted to lazy stereotyping. In the process, they've managed to attribute the opinions of the naysayers to yourself, whereas it seem fairly obvious to me that - especially under the circustances you discussed in Glittering Gems... you've been pretty decent and even-handed in dealing with hype and rumour (they won't have seen your various pleas for caution with respect to rumour, for instance).

They do slip up there, like this: "We don't know *anything* about Bethesda and what they're doing for Fallout 3 yet, we don't know squat. And yet they are completely obsessed and they have this delusion that the fanbase of Fallout, and they talk amongst each other and have their own community (...)"

What he *WANTS* to say here is "We don't know nothing, but yet they're bashing it", but there's not a hint in the article and few on the frontpage that there's some kind of massive bashing-without-knowing going on.

Skynet said:
They read the article yes, yet they didn't understand it.

Oh, I don't know, that might be a bit harsh. They cover it very superficially, so it's hard to gauge how well they got it.

But believe me, I've seen a lot worse response, people simply not bothering to read it or understand it and instead taking the excuse to flame us.

Skynet said:
If accepting values that I find repulsive and discarding my experience to "embrace" the new Fallout is what they want, they can suck on my Panamanian dick.

I don't think anyone of us will. NMA certainly won't. If it sucks, we'll always have a good job of modding out the suck.

Smoke_Jaguar said:
Kharn, I agree with you that any publicity is good, but I've never heard of these Gamers with Jobs

I have. They're not one of the biggest sites out there, but they're consistent, often critical, are careful about falling for hype. Generally, they're a shite lot better than Gamespy.
 
Gamers with Jobs said:
No Mutants Allowed, the Fallout fansite. There was a "gem of hatred article", which is what they do to discuss, this is a Fallout fansite, discussing Fallout fans.

Nothing says attention-to-detail like missing the name of the article in question by an adjective and a plural noun. What's that I sense? Educated statements ahoy!

Gamers with Reading Disabilities said:
They had this weird victim thing

That certainly is a head-scratcher. Why would anyone in the Fallout community feel victimized after the franchise has been repeatedly mishandled by the Creme de la Clueless, who have invariably taken up an antagonistic and(or) manipulative stance against the fanbase at the first sign of anything less than lavish praise, a stance that is the status quo for Bethesda Softworks, the corporation currently producing Fallout In Name Only III: FOBos Pt. 2?

Yes. Clearly Freud himself would perish attempting to plumb the depths of the Fallout community's endless barrel of K-RAYZEEE. LOLOL M I RITE!!


Gamers with Reading Disabilities said:
You really can't [win], and with fans, especially with the Fallout fans,

That crackhead mantra gets more priceless every time I see it. "I'M not a fuck up, I'm SPESHUL!! It's not my fault the fans aren't happy! They're fans, can't please fans! NONONO CANT PLZ FANZ!!! IM KEWL!! IM LEET! IM IN THE ZONE! ... Okay everybody, put more hair on those Deathclaws! Add more Slipknot! Normalmap that soil erosion! What's the E.T.A. on those jumping puzzles? This'll be the most immersive game EVAR!".


Gamers with Reading Disabilities said:
We don't know *anything* about Bethesda and what they're doing for Fallout 3 yet, we don't know squat.

We know that it's a safe leap of faith that Fallout 3 will be similar to an Elder Scrolls title and certainly not some paltry(scoff!) isometric RPG like Baldur's Gate, as per the words of Pete Hines. We know that Todd Howard is literally incapable of recognizing(not to mention producing) a cRPG despite claiming to draw inspiration from the Ultima series. We know that Fallout's style of humour evades him. We know that it's being developed for the Xbox 360. We know that Bethesda keeps an eye out for criticism only so that they can identify who to ban, censor, and blacklist.

But, gee wiz, we don't know squat.

...

What Internet has this clownshoes been surfing?

Gamers with Reading Disabilities said:
because he actually goes on and on about how the industry is obsessed with innovation and the real step forward would be taking a step back and using the old design style from the original game. That would be the real "innovation".

The industry is obsessed with the term "innovation" only insofar as a buzzword that it can use to justify change-for-the-sake-of-change and poor game design that either takes a quantum leap backwards into the stoneage or is simply the Trend of the Month. Real innovation has become such a rarity in the industry that Fallout is actually more innovative today than it was in 1997. In that context, taking a step forward does indeed require taking a step back.

But obviously Captain Progress would blow a synapse attempting to wrap his mind around that one.
 
Kharn said:
Diarmada said:
Kharn, did you listen to the January 31st edition, it had some stuff on F3 as well, a few points (around the 37 minute mark)....

That would've been more useful then ;)

It wasn't too bad,but then again it wasn't too good either,I mean "don't worry it's Bethesda,one of the few HC RPG makers out there together with Bioware".
All in all,the one defending FO did make some points about it all and it certainly had a lot more weight to it than this slandering piece.

I do however wonder how they all (all=every site talking about us,the community,in a bad way) forget about why FO still is a recognized name,without the FO community it would've been forgotten by now.
It won't matter how great a game is if it passes too much time,the name will be forgotten by everyone apart from figurarely speaking "eleven angry guys"...
The reason FO still is a viable brand,Iplay could sell it to anyone and so on is due to all the "psychopaths" that actually love and care about the game...
Realizing this wouldn't be a "giant step for mankind,but it would at least be a small step in the right direction".
 
Pot Calling The Kettle, And / Or, Oh Brother,Where Art Thou?

Pot Calling The Kettle, And / Or, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?




Kharn, paraphrasing GWJ pod cast:
... Also also, this reminds me of a vital point that keeps cropping up, the kind of defeatism vs idealism, pragmatics vs dreamers, they mention several time in the entire thing (which is quite good, actually, though not as insightful as it could have been), that this kind of intense fandom isn't "worth it", that (as an agnostic, he says for some reason), he's grown beyond it, or at least is not in a phase in his life where he can attribute any value to it. ...

On dial up, so while waiting for the down load, wish to point at
... that (as an agnostic, he says for some reason), he's grown beyond it, ...

Now rewind to this phrase in the GWJ conference call ...
... that's not a fan, that borders on being a psychopath ...

An - agnostic - reading the text of a fundamentalist might well use some extreme label to hang a first, or even third or fourth impression.


At this point, I wish i had a better handle on the concept of FO fan-dom and fundamentalism. Consider that a fundamentalist is coming from a position of loss.

The quest to re-attain that lost state of grace points somewhere to the past for reference and reflection. Somewhere in the past is a road map, a path finder to a better present and future. The 'lost scrolls of Black Isle' the FO bible, the source of debate for a lot of FO canon, are aptly - labeled - to fit this fundamentalist persona.

Our individual experience of the FO games differs.

Our collective experience of the FO games agrees that these ''happy accidents'' represent quality in role playing games.

An agnostic may see obsessive nostalgia in any one assigning a ''state of grace'' to any RPG's designed in the '90's. I will venture any site like GWJ that talk's the talk of -- quality -- in gaming journalism, as was represented in the pod cast's comment page, would further their cause by recognizing the fan sites that are measuring the game industry's hype against the know standards of the past.

No, the next GREAT role playing game won't LOOK like a game from the '90's, AND the fans that have established what they like may have a better grasp on what is good or great than ''the lost sheep'' fleeing the boredom of gaming to another ''lost weekend'' under the influence of the Hype Industry's ''The Big Shiny ".


......................

From that one comment page,
I would say that in the bigger picture,
the realm that goes beyond the talk of true console MMO's, 6 buttons, 10 buttons ... controllers versus keyboards ...
that in the larger case for quality games,
GWJ may be on the side of the fan sites, NMA, DAC, RPGCodex.

Just within peripheral vision, well up wind.

I haven't read any of their comment pages before, so the over all drift of their commentary is still .. undiscovered.
Interesting how they lament the dying print media, the old gamers' mag's that are now glossy ad pimps.

Recall of a lost past ..... at GWJ?

Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

A memory of that elusive aesthetic, philosopher's stone emoted as ''quality''?

Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

GWJ seems to perch on some higher moral plane with out the apparent need of constant kleenex (nose wipe) as for example:
the holier "" uber alles''" opinions at RPGWatch.
RPGW: It's the pretense with no standard but one upsmanship that evokes the giant hanky. Codex refugees?

Well, appears to be less snot at GWJ.

Makes the higher tone audible.

Or pun the less, if I refrain at the nasal metaphor, allows the tone to be possibly palatable ...


GWJ has a different focus, and it's the DESIRE to call forth past codes of journalistic integrity that could be a term of endearment to any CONSCIOUS OR UNCONSCIOUS fundamentalist.






4too
 
Don't tell them about "Don't Buy the Hype." They'd have an anneurism just attempting to comprehend the fandom.

Also Kharn, you could do better about not seeming so defensive.
 
Bradylama said:
Also Kharn, you could do better about not seeming so defensive.

Oh, yeah, I guess I forgot I was supposed to call them idiots, tell them they don't know anything about the industry and that they should shut the hell up, didn't I?
 
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