What if Super Mutants weren't sterile?

I have seen some antagonist being harder to convince and providing good counter-arguments, and would have wanted more for mister Greyt, but the Master reaction makes sense in context. The guy was emotionally driven to cope with the trauma of humanity and his own trauma. If not for having a goal through the unity, the master would probably had killed himself or went feral, after his horrible mutation. The unity was his way to cope with that, give himself a focus. Then, in the name of the unity, he sacrified a lot of people. So, when that fall apart, he has to face his own condition AND the guilt for all the people he sacrified in the name of the unity. Also, the unity higher ranks probably anticipated he would react like that. They don't lie to him for nothing.
 
Marcus seems to believe that individuality survived well into having the master's influence, but if they are as subservient as you seem to think, you could argue that becoming part of the unity is to give up what it means to be alive at all. If life is merely to exist to propagate more life, it is more akin to a cancer, eating up resources as they grow in numbers, putting strain on the land, just as people did before, except now life is without purpose or fulfillment. Mankind would be rendered into being like drones, and that is really living. The complexity of man is why we war, but its also what makes life worth living.
 
{Presently, there is a slight . . . problem in the reproductive process. It's being attended to. For now, we must use the Vats to turn humans into Super Mutants. You'll experience that glory yourself momentarily.



SiriusShenanigans said:
Marcus seems to believe that individuality survived well into having the master's influence, but if they are as subservient as you seem to think, you could argue that becoming part of the unity is to give up what it means to be alive at all. If life is merely to exist to propagate more life, it is more akin to a cancer, eating up resources as they grow in numbers, putting strain on the land, just as people did before, except now life is without purpose or fulfillment. Mankind would be rendered into being like drones, and that is really living. The complexity of man is why we war, but its also what makes life worth living.
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Kind of debattable.
One could argue that the unity provide a goal, a sense of fulfillement, of belonging to something.
On could also argue that it would be a small price to get rid of war once for all, especially in the context of the last war having almost destroyed the world.
 
Prone Squanderer said:
I've always thought, given the Master's psychic abilities, he was able to keep them relatively sane.
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But what if it was his psychic influence that made them mentally ill? The other psykers in his lair were sick. That little boy in NV had terrible migraines and went all loopy when he used his abilities. The Master himself is certainly not the picture of mental health. So it stands to reason that psychic abilities in the world of Fallout make people unwell. Maybe this extends to those who are psychically influenced.
 
For it all comes down to methods. The Master's methods were bad; not just unethical but irrational as well. Maybe if he was more cautious, focused on figuring out the science to make his plan world rather than defaulting to aggression as a shortcut. At minimum if he focused his aggression on viable candidates that would make sense, in a 'ends justify the means' kind of way. Still wrong, but somewhere on the spectrum of 'not completely pointless'.
 
V.D.D.Williams said:
I would probably still refuse, consequences be damned.

Although the Master might be willing to offer options, he isnt exactly in a position to ensure his instructions are followed. Lou already hides things from the Master, and Im pretty sure he wouldnt entertain the notion of letting people who are undecided just live on (He would probably consider that a waste of time).

We also know that eventually the Nightkin will suffer the side effects of excessive Stealth-Boy use. Antler might attempt to lead the Nightkin into an uprising to overthrow the Master!

...Yes. Yes, Antler, I told them. Whats that Antler?... Oh, no. No, I dont think they suspect anything...
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I agree that the Master would let let most humans that refused to become mutants go after they were sterilized. I believe he was telling a half truth though. I guarantee that if he found a group of pure strain humans even if Super mutants could reproduce in an alternate timeline he'd probably still dip them in the vats. He may have even just said that in order to try to get the Vault Dweller to join him. The other problem is the master is immobile and permanently fused to a bunch of computers, so he can't be there to make sure his commanders are following his orders all the time, unless his physic abilities allow him to see what his subordinates are up to. Just look at the ending to Fallout 1 if you join the Unity and give them the location of your Vault in the ending cut scene the Super mutants kill at least half of the Vault dwellers in Vault 13 which I also found quite odd since most of them are defenseless and there is no way they could've resisted against the Super mutants I could see killing the Overseer Jacoren since he was resisting and killed a good number of Super mutants before he was killed. But killing half of the Vault dwellers who are pure strain humans would be a waste of highly intelligent super mutants. I was using this as an example of the Super mutants not always following order correctly although those mutants in the cut scene might have been unintelligent super mutants. Also if the night kin developed schizophrenia later (I'm not sure if they would though if they were under the Masters psychic control) the master would try to treat them or if need be simply wipe them out. I really like the idea of this thread though what if the Master was successful at the end of Fallout 1 in an alternate timeline would actually be a really good idea for a Fallout fan game.
Sublime said:
What about the Enclave?
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Well since the Master isn't killed and still controls the Mariposa military base the Enclave wouldn't be able to go to Mariposa to get a sample of the FEV virus and Horrigan wouldn't become mutated from the FEV virus so they wouldn't be as powerful as they are in Fallout 2. They would either remain hidden on the Posiden oil rig or the Enclave and the Unity would have a huge war with the enclave being wiped out and the Unity taking heavy casualties but replacing them very quickly since the Master would have mutated most of the country and would have a massive Super mutant army at that point.
 
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hag said:
Of course, but I don't see how it's a half-truth. He says "all those that are required for the Unity" - as I understand it, that means all pure strain humans will be dipped without any choice in the matter. The "remainder" - irradiated Wastelanders - are the ones who get to choose between sterilization or dipping.


They don't. Only five Vault Dwellers are seen killed, including the Overseer, who mounted an attack. Five, out of ~500.


The ending narration implies there was a resistance.
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I just rewatched the ending cut scene after not seeing it in a few years and there was seven people that we can see that were killed in the cut scene. The total death toll or how many people are actually killed after the cut scene is left up to the viewers imagination. So when I said that the super mutants killed half of the population of the vault I may have been exaggerating a bit. But there was probably other people that were also most likely killed after the super mutants were riled up after killing the overseer and losing two super mutants.
 
hag said:
@NMLevesque Irrational how?

The Master seems extremely rational from my POV. His mistake was putting too much faith into his subordinates.

And I don't think he shows signs of mental illness. He's weird, sure. But his alternate personalities, if that is what they are, don't seem to hamper his functioning much.
Everything which he says is entirely based on facts from his POV. He's not delusional about the superiority of Super Mutants, and his plan would be tenable if not for their sterility - which his subordinates hide from him.
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Those he improves are a minority among those who survive. He thinks that a plan which requires genocide is somehow the only path to peace. As an immobile being, he chose to build a church on top of his secret home, rather than not drawing attention to it. It's never indicated that he doesn't believe the stuff he indoctrinates others to believe, so there might be that as well.

"I think I consumed one of the mutated things scurrying around here today. Before I knew what was happening, some sort of tendril had sprang from my stomach and covered the poor creature. As soon as it had sucked the rodent into my gut I could actually feel its mind. I think. There is the very real possibility that I'm going slowly insane and can no longer differentiate between what is real and what is a hallucination. Maybe I'm still slowly dying in the vat and I've imagined all this. "

"Things are becoming more clear to me every day. This toxin has actually improved my mind. I feel that I can understand even the most complex philosophical questions simply and directly. It's as if all the layers of artifice have been stripped away."

Disassociative identity disorder and/or depersonalization disorder for sure. Note that it is possible for people with mental illness to be high-functioning. So that it doesn't *seem* to hinder him doesn't mean that it's not pathological in nature. He's also a delusional cult leading (folie a deux) serial killer who doesn't see people as anything more than fuel if they don't serve a purpose to him. So there is that.
 
coldroll said:
I agree that the Master would let let most humans that refused to become mutants go after they were sterilized. I believe he was telling a half truth though. I guarantee that if he found a group of pure strain humans even if Super mutants could reproduce in an alternate timeline he'd probably still dip them in the vats. He may have even just said that in order to try to get the Vault Dweller to join him. The other problem is the master is immobile and permanently fused to a bunch of computers, so he can't be there to make sure his commanders are following his orders all the time, unless his physic abilities allow him to see what his subordinates are up to. Just look at the ending to Fallout 1 if you join the Unity and give them the location of your Vault in the ending cut scene the Super mutants kill at least half of the Vault dwellers in Vault 13 which I also found quite odd since most of them are defenseless and there is no way they could've resisted against the Super mutants I could see killing the Overseer Jacoren since he was resisting and killed a good number of Super mutants before he was killed. But killing half of the Vault dwellers who are pure strain humans would be a waste of highly intelligent super mutants. I was using this as an example of the Super mutants not always following order correctly although those mutants in the cut scene might have been unintelligent super mutants. Also if the night kin developed schizophrenia later (I'm not sure if they would though if they were under the Masters psychic control) the master would try to treat them or if need be simply wipe them out. I really like the idea of this thread though what if the Master was successful at the end of Fallout 1 in an alternate timeline would actually be a really good idea for a Fallout fan game.


Well since the Master isn't killed and still controls the Mariposa military base the Enclave wouldn't be able to go to Mariposa to get a sample of the FEV virus and Horrigan wouldn't become mutated from the FEV virus so they wouldn't be as powerful as they are in Fallout 2. They would either remain hidden on the Posiden oil rig or the Enclave and the Unity would have a huge war with the enclave being wiped out and the Unity taking heavy casualties but replacing them very quickly since the Master would have mutated most of the country and would have a massive Super mutant army at that point.
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I'm not 100% sure if it fits the SCIENCE! of Fallout, but given that the FEV is a virus each and every supermutant should be a viable sample of the virus. Given enough time for experimentation and mass production, once the Airborne FEV had been released in the atmosphere the Unity would be doomed. Assuming they don't manage to wipe them out before that
 
The Enclave got their ass kicked by a couple of untrained and barely armed supermutants who were just Redding miners.
Agains't the Unity full force, with equipement, leadership, robots, centaurs, floaters, normies, the Enclave would be evenly matched at best. And if the Master decided to send Nightkins, the Enclave could be screwed even before they knew what happened.
 
I always got the idea that it was a small group of like 5 enclave soldiers that went into mariposa. Those casualties were based on being overrun rather than enclave deploying in full force. Mark II power armor is really powerful, and plasma weapons are exceptionally powerful, so I imagine they would do very well in the mariposa base.
 
naossano said:
The Enclave got their ass kicked by a couple of untrained and barely armed supermutants who were just Redding miners.
Agains't the Unity full force, with equipement, leadership, robots, centaurs, floaters, normies, the Enclave would be evenly matched at best. And if the Master decided to send Nightkins, the Enclave could be screwed even before they knew what happened.
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But the Enclave base is on a platform in the middle of the Ocean. In order to fight them, first they need to find them. Then, reach them - equally difficult due to Poseidon's security systems. So the Unity's main advantage, land warfare, means little.

The Enclave has vertibird and oil, meaning air supremacy. While I trust the Unity's ability to *eventually* find some countermeasure, for most of the war the Enclave would have a huge advantage. Enough time to enact their FEV plan

Needless to say they have better means of production and more advanced technology, among which Mark II power armor and plasma weaponry. Should things go wrong they can use orbital strikes and surviving nukes to bomb the Unity out of existence

But then again, they just need to hide, develop the biological weapon and launch a surprise attack.
 
If they some skilled nightkins, enclave security would mean little. They would just need to put charges at the right location.
 
Why would they pick a boat if they could just follow the Enclave troopers into their own transportations ? What would be the point of being invisible if they had to arrange their own transporations ?
 
naossano said:
Why would they pick a boat if they could just follow the Enclave troopers into their own transportations ? What would be the point of being invisible if they had to arrange their own transporations ?
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They're invisible, but they're still big so following The Enclave in their vertibirds is too far fetched. And even then they don't know how to pilot a Vertibird. Also, the Enclave doesn't really need to travel to the surface that often.
 
naossano said:
Why would they pick a boat if they could just follow the Enclave troopers into their own transportations ? What would be the point of being invisible if they had to arrange their own transporations ?
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More like kill us together with the Supermutants.
 
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