What is your stance on Achievements?

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by lugaru, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. Verevoof

    Verevoof Cryptid oTO Orderite Board Cop oTO [REDACTED]

    Jul 12, 2009
    Meh, doesn't really matter to me. Achievements/trophies just happen. I just see them as little things to do if you've already done everything in the game and have nothing better to do. But there are some people out there who take achievements quite seriously.
     
  2. Eternal

    Eternal Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    461
    Nov 4, 2008
    I like achievements but dislike gamerscores. I think achievements are a cool way of keeping track of some of the things you have done and can add an interesting sort of "high score board" type feel to games, it also encourages you to try to do tasks you might just not bother with (beat a campaign in left 4 dead without anyone taking friendly fire damage) and then it can encourage you to explore or do silly things (Beat a campaign in left 4 dead using only pistols, find the secret room in World of Goo).

    MOST grinding achievements are lame and pointlessly easy to get (kill 100 of such and such) but I think that an occasional one is nice way of giving yourself a goal to reach in-game, or a way to track how much you have played the game if you are not actively trying to get the achievement.

    A good example of a "grinding" achievement I LIKE is the kill 53595 infected in Left 4 Dead, I'm currently at around 14000. First off it has the humor factor (of being a one up on the popular game Dead Rising), second off its something you obtain through normal play but takes a long time. If you feel the need that you HAVE to have the achievement then it is simply too high to grind out really quick or even over a decent period of time, but it gives you a fun goal to try and see if you'll ever reach it. A bad grinding one is one that you need to go out of your way to obtain, is difficult to work on, and requires large amounts of luck (using your bonesaw kill 3 enemy spys who have called for a medic)

    Another type of achievement I don't like is the kind that in part requires something completely out of your control to be done. (Example: light a spy on fire while he is flicking his cigarrette)
     
  3. Username

    Username It Wandered In From the Wastes

    169
    Sep 29, 2006

    How the hell does it "Encourage" you?
     
  4. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Cause it gives you a challenge or a goal. How does Mortal Kombat encourage you to beat the game? It's technically an achievement, otherwise you could just fight an opponent after an opponent.

    Or how does minesweeper encourage you to complete it in less time?
     
  5. Eyenixon

    Eyenixon Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 11, 2008
    I don't get your point, killing that many zombies in Dead Rising actively does require you to go out of your way to get it because there's no way you can get that achievement while following the regular cases, you pretty much have to focus on killing zombies every single second, and the only real way to get that achievement is in the maintenance tunnels anyway and that is not fun.
     
  6. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Well it pretty much requires you to play the game over and over again. On average, you kill about 500 infected a campaign, if you specifically try to kill everyone you see. That's a lot of campaigns you need to play to get the achievement.

    BTW, what do you mean by maintenance tunnel, Eyenixon?
     
  7. Eyenixon

    Eyenixon Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 11, 2008
    I'm pretty sure you have to kill them all in a single game.
    And the maintenance tunnels is where the mission with Carlito trying to run you over in the milk truck while you pick up bombs takes place.

    It's the one filled with absolute hordes of zombies, and it's the only place where you can really get the Genocider achievement, you have to keep hopping into cars and running over hundreds of zombies, it takes a few hours and it's incredibly tedious.
     
  8. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    No man, it's freaking impossible to kill that many in a single game. The game keeps track of all zombies you ever kill, you have to basically play enough games to accumulate that many.

    You know what, I think we're talking about different games. Are you talking about Dead Rising? Because Eternal and I are talking about Left 4 Dead.
     
  9. Eyenixon

    Eyenixon Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 11, 2008
    Yeah, I'm talking about the wrong game, I was reading your post and the instant I got to Dead Rising, Left 4 Dead just left my brain. Don't know, I love that game.
     
  10. Dreadwolf

    Dreadwolf First time out of the vault

    95
    Oct 24, 2007
    I tend to ignore Achievements.

    Kinda like them in L4D tho. I don't know what they are, but when i get one, it's a nice feeling.

    My first contact with Achievements was in WoW and most of those are just beyond stupid.
     
  11. Username

    Username It Wandered In From the Wastes

    169
    Sep 29, 2006

    Hey, how does athletic running encourage you to run faster?

    THE TIMER!! THE ACHIVEMENT....

    No, an achivement would be like "Run an athlethic marathon faster than 1 hour and 2 minutes and 55 seconds in black shorts and with a pizza. "



    Beating a game or scoring high is not an achivement* per se even though it's something to achive.

    *As it has come to mean in gaming.
     
  12. Quaid

    Quaid Give dese people air!!

    120
    May 10, 2005
    Achievements (or Trophies on the PS3) are really just another Pokemon phenom (gotta catch 'em all!). Grinding ones are silly, but it was a little funny to see the "Keys are for Cowards" Trophy pop up during Fallout 3 when I picked my 50th lock...
     
  13. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Running a certain distance in less time than you normally do WOULD be an achievement.

    Also, almost every game that has achievements, has one for beating the game so it is an achievement. I don't know what you're saying to be quite honest.
     
  14. Username

    Username It Wandered In From the Wastes

    169
    Sep 29, 2006
    The point is this.
    The achivements you are seeing especially in the Xbox 360 are point-achivements to increase the longevity and value of a game for people that can't by their own accord set up goals for themselves in the games they play.

    (That is people like you).

    Completing a game or scoring a high score is not an achivement a in the way an achivement has become to be defined within the gaming community. And while it may be an achivement to "reach a score" or "complete a game" it is much more the purpous of the game it self.

    An arcade games purpous, the reason you buy it is to have fun while trying to score most (I.E. kill as much as fast as possible) while the reason you buy a game like Half Life is to kick some ass and play through a great story.
    Having completed the game you might set up goals for yourself if you found the game enjoyable enough. People have done this for ages.

    Speedrunning is among the most fun and popular goals among these. But you see, people do this not to speedrun it for the sake of speedrunning it and getting a star on their gaming account but because it's fun, challenging and in some ways a competetive sport.


    All of this differ from the achivements already set in stone by the gaming companies, judged by the gaming companies and completed by the bonus whoring community for the sake of completing them. On the following link you can actually read about people (in the comments) who buy games not because they are fun, not because they enjoy them but because they want to get points on their account and because they heard getting those points is easy.

    It is actually a further evolution of the brainwashing people have recived in the west for so long. Be the best, have the most, get the most. Always get over the top over someone ellse - even if you don't enjoy it or the process of it. BECAUSE YOU WILL ENJOY THE ACTUAL FACT OF BEING BETTER THAN SOMEONE ELLSE. That is the illusion of being better

    http://www.teamteabag.com/2008/02/21/why-achievements-are-awesome/#comment-28137


    So you see, while you may not be at the level of these sheep in the link you are still not far from. You may not be stupid nor unimaginative, really ... there's a chance you are not. But you have simply given way to the illusions of modern life and have actually begun to enjoy them which is quite sad. A willfull participant of real matrix if you wish.
     
  15. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Well, Username, achievements for some games are the purpose of those games, just like "reach a score" or "complete a game". A good example is Left 4 Dead. What's the point of L4D, without achievements? It doesn't have a campaign, as such, it has achievements instead.

    Also, a lot of people don't try to get achievements to get a score or get a star, they do them because they are fun, challenging, and in some ways a competitive sport.

    I don't get anything for unlocking PC's Left 4 Dead achievements, for instance, but I do them anyway because they are a challenge and pretty much the purpose of the game, as you put it. They motivate and encourage me to do things that I wouldn't normally do because they are a part of the game, just like completing a campaign is in most games. You will find people who don't see it that way and do it just for the score, of course, but that's their business. All I know is I have fun with them.

    You are generalizing because some people on some website you happen to dig up, are obsessing about achievements. Not everyone who enjoys them, thinks that way.

    Also, cool it with the personal attacks, bud. You don't know me so keep this subject neutral and just make your points without putting me in any categories.
     
  16. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    518
    Feb 5, 2008
    I dont have anything against achievements, i could see some nice litlle jokes and tweaks for future games.

    Its just that i dont get why its that big of a deal for some gamers and developers. It just feels like its often used as filling if nothing exciting isnt happening atm, plus theyre also shamelesly used as easy way to "give sense of reward" to player.

    This could "distract some devs from making some real rewards(and punishments) for players.
     
  17. Username

    Username It Wandered In From the Wastes

    169
    Sep 29, 2006

    I thought you played Left 4 Dead to see if you can survive in a zombie infested city and to maul zombies? Now why do you need an achivement as soon as you kill 50 zombies? Isn't it enough satisfaction to have killed 50 of them? Now I honestly don't know what sort of achivements the game has cause the times I play it I don't pay attention to them but I think it had one like the one I am mentioning.
    And where have I done any namecalling?



    Edit: Oh and, if you aren't unimaginative then why can't you just speedrun a game without an achivement badge being "awarded" to you? Why didn't you do any of the little extra things before the game started "encouraging" you - I Mean if it isn't about the score.
     
  18. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Well, going back to Tekken, why do you need to complete the game, why don't you just fight random people? That's all you need to finish the game so why have a campaign at all? In order to give players some goals to work towards. L4D achievements are such goals. I found out fairly quickly that I could survive among the zombies, so what's there to do after that? Just shoot zombies?

    There is no achievement for killing 50 zombies, btw. There is an achievement to kill a certain amount of zombies a certain way and that's a cool goal to try to achieve.


    Because if it's an achievement (a well done one) somebody has tested it and made sure that it was difficult but possible. I had no idea that it was possible to kill a Witch with a single headshot but the achievement told me it was. It's a fun achievement to get and it's a challenge.
     
  19. cronicler

    cronicler Lurksalot

    495
    May 31, 2006
    A well thought out achievement is a little spice to the normal game. It is fun to see the game acknowledge that you pulled a weird stuff.

    However most of the achievements nowadays are not about fun. The achievements are mostly for grinding or just playing the game. And worst of all, the mainstream gamers are becoming a "bite sized" crowd with attention span limited to "Here! now! and I mean now!" and cool(ness).

    I like playing computer games but the regression of the games is really irritating. Sure at 2000 when RTS genre was just beginning to mature (The whole genre started in 1997 or so) there were a lot of different campaign modes and gameplays. (SC SP, C&C SP, Earth 21** SP, Total Anhiliation SP, Commandoes SP were all different from each other in some fundamental ways) Today everything is the same cookie cutter...

    Similarly, Achievements have just become a little carrot to the game that makes you play the game some more instead of a acknowledment of your creativity, madness or skill.

    Lastly that kid crowd (console kiddie, 13yo, 1337K1dZ whatever) is really irritating.
    OMG I h4f more med4lz th4n u n0ob! L2P