Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
As shown in Fallout 2, with selling off the party members, or actively hunting for slaves.
(...and accepting the slaver's mark.)
Where's Society?
- Thread starter Zvezda
- Start date
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- comparison rant society sociology
Antediluvian as Feck
(...and accepting the slaver's mark.)
Exactly. Difference is that was done well, and was a fittingly disgusting thing to do.
Fallout 3 has that weird mesmotron shit that just makes even the act of enslavement feel ridiculous.
HOW DO YOU MAKE SLAVE TRADING CARTOONY?!
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Some people just want to work.
Aha, I think i've got the hang of this now, so 1024 apologies for putting up a video made with Fallout3.
Society is an illusion. Why does society = civilisation, mutual trust and aid. A stable grown up place. As in Fallout 4 and real life society is arbitrary. Some politicians say it is paramount, some say it does not exist.
Fallout was not created as a survival game although surviving is objective 1. Objective 2 in Fallout 4 is to eventually make a choice of which faction to side with, identical really to Skyrim which I jibbed at the stage of choosing between bad or bad.
So I never completed either.
I just left them to it.
Aha, I think i've got the hang of this now, so 1024 apologies for putting up a video made with Fallout3.
Society is an illusion. Why does society = civilisation, mutual trust and aid. A stable grown up place. As in Fallout 4 and real life society is arbitrary. Some politicians say it is paramount, some say it does not exist.
Fallout was not created as a survival game although surviving is objective 1. Objective 2 in Fallout 4 is to eventually make a choice of which faction to side with, identical really to Skyrim which I jibbed at the stage of choosing between bad or bad.
So I never completed either.
I just left them to it.
Last edited:
TheKingofVault14
Fallout Fan For Life!
Dang, I can't believe I'm only seeing this thread NOW! But anyways yeah, this is pretty much my sentiments exactly on how feel in regards to The Commonwealth(Fallout 4's World) compared to the Mojave Wasteland. (New Vegas's World)Hey, I'm new here! I came across NMA while complaining about the epitome of Bethesda that is FO76, and found myself really resonating with a lot of the opinions here about FO3. Hope you're all doing well
I thought I'd start off my time here with a critique of something I noticed about FO4. It was the first Fallout game I played, and I really enjoyed it at first - until the story questlines ended, and the world felt empty. I only figured it out when I got bored and moved on to playing New Vegas; Fallout 4 has no society. Anywhere.
In the broadest strokes possible, New Vegas is set in a battleground between the 3 different economic modes and their different forms of social organisation formed after the Great War. There's the NCR, an early capitalist republic based around its water caravans; Caesar's Legion, a vast slaver army; and the ancient, tight-knit tribes of the Wasteland, "families of families". Each of these societies interact and exist independently of the Courier. The few tribes who end up classed as raiders (mainly the Vipers) have complicated histories, cultures, and interactions. Only in a few scattered settlements are left out of the loop.
Fallout 4 has none of that. There are no states. There are no tribes. There are cities, which don't do anything, and exist solely so you can fast travel in, sell all your junk, and leave. Raider-tribals are replaced with nameless, identical "raiders", who are all insane and stupid, and respawn in the same places every 3 days to shoot at anyone who walks by for some reason (so they can put their heads on sticks and smell rotting human flesh all day I guess). Instead of forming tribes as they ventured out into the wastes, all the vault dwellers are either still cooped up in their vaults 2 centuries later (who knows how they're managing their populations) or dead for the SS to trample over on their way to the next terminal. Instead of mercs, there are Gunners (who despite supposedly being mercenaries are never actually seen being mercenaries), the most technologically advanced minor faction in the Commonwealth who should really be ruling the entire place by now, but instead spend their time doing insidious plots and shooting anyone they see for some reason. As soon as the story, which acts as a substitute for real worldbuilding, ends, so does any energy the cities of the Commonwealth ever had. I guess people have been too busy shooting at eachother for the last 200 years to do anything whatsoever.
The factions themselves consist of Unexplained Evil Scientists, knights in shining power armour who moved in a massive military force after they found out the Unexplained Evil Scientists were there for some reason, a single man who makes you the general of an army just because you helped 4 people, and secret agents who free the Unexplained Evil Scientists' synth slaves. The only faction that has any actual connection to Commonwealth society is the Railroad, and they're the most absurdly underdeveloped (and that's saying something) of all of them.
My favourite moment in FONV is when you enter the Strip for the first time, and you see NCR troopers stumbling around with Military Police trying to keep them walking in 1 direction. You've heard all the way to New Vegas about how troopers go to the strip to blow their pay on booze, slot machines and prostitutes, and here they are. These are real people, in a real army, in a real place, going to real institutions. They'll be stumbling around whether you're there or not.
Compare that to entering Diamond City, which I think is the first "wow" event of FO4 since the moment when you first venture out of Vault 111 (which is actually pretty well done). The first thing in front of you, except the chapel and Publick Occurences, are traders, each with a convenient speciality, who've apparently been sitting in their shacks all day waiting for you to buy their junk. Goodneighbor is even more explicit, they literally just go from their beds to their stands right next to the fast travel point and back all day, every day. They're not people, they're fleshy Vendortrons.
It really highlights the difference between the different developers' objectives. The Interplay and Obsidian Fallouts asked, "what things would happen in a post-nuclear-apocalyptic world?". The Bethesda Fallouts asked, "what if things happened... in a post-nuclear-apocalyptic world?".
Everything's so lifeless & empty in Fallout 4, and I think the worst crime of all, is the illusion it masquerades itself in. The illusion of freedom & your choices having ANY semblance of consequences!
Hey, I'm new here! I came across NMA while complaining about the epitome of Bethesda that is FO76, and found myself really resonating with a lot of the opinions here about FO3. Hope you're all doing well
I thought I'd start off my time here with a critique of something I noticed about FO4. It was the first Fallout game I played, and I really enjoyed it at first - until the story questlines ended, and the world felt empty. I only figured it out when I got bored and moved on to playing New Vegas; Fallout 4 has no society. Anywhere.
In the broadest strokes possible, New Vegas is set in a battleground between the 3 different economic modes and their different forms of social organisation formed after the Great War. There's the NCR, an early capitalist republic based around its water caravans; Caesar's Legion, a vast slaver army; and the ancient, tight-knit tribes of the Wasteland, "families of families". Each of these societies interact and exist independently of the Courier. The few tribes who end up classed as raiders (mainly the Vipers) have complicated histories, cultures, and interactions. Only in a few scattered settlements are left out of the loop.
Fallout 4 has none of that. There are no states. There are no tribes. There are cities, which don't do anything, and exist solely so you can fast travel in, sell all your junk, and leave. Raider-tribals are replaced with nameless, identical "raiders", who are all insane and stupid, and respawn in the same places every 3 days to shoot at anyone who walks by for some reason (so they can put their heads on sticks and smell rotting human flesh all day I guess). Instead of forming tribes as they ventured out into the wastes, all the vault dwellers are either still cooped up in their vaults 2 centuries later (who knows how they're managing their populations) or dead for the SS to trample over on their way to the next terminal. Instead of mercs, there are Gunners (who despite supposedly being mercenaries are never actually seen being mercenaries), the most technologically advanced minor faction in the Commonwealth who should really be ruling the entire place by now, but instead spend their time doing insidious plots and shooting anyone they see for some reason. As soon as the story, which acts as a substitute for real worldbuilding, ends, so does any energy the cities of the Commonwealth ever had. I guess people have been too busy shooting at eachother for the last 200 years to do anything whatsoever.
The factions themselves consist of Unexplained Evil Scientists, knights in shining power armour who moved in a massive military force after they found out the Unexplained Evil Scientists were there for some reason, a single man who makes you the general of an army just because you helped 4 people, and secret agents who free the Unexplained Evil Scientists' synth slaves. The only faction that has any actual connection to Commonwealth society is the Railroad, and they're the most absurdly underdeveloped (and that's saying something) of all of them.
My favourite moment in FONV is when you enter the Strip for the first time, and you see NCR troopers stumbling around with Military Police trying to keep them walking in 1 direction. You've heard all the way to New Vegas about how troopers go to the strip to blow their pay on booze, slot machines and prostitutes, and here they are. These are real people, in a real army, in a real place, going to real institutions. They'll be stumbling around whether you're there or not.
Compare that to entering Diamond City, which I think is the first "wow" event of FO4 since the moment when you first venture out of Vault 111 (which is actually pretty well done). The first thing in front of you, except the chapel and Publick Occurences, are traders, each with a convenient speciality, who've apparently been sitting in their shacks all day waiting for you to buy their junk. Goodneighbor is even more explicit, they literally just go from their beds to their stands right next to the fast travel point and back all day, every day. They're not people, they're fleshy Vendortrons.
It really highlights the difference between the different developers' objectives. The Interplay and Obsidian Fallouts asked, "what things would happen in a post-nuclear-apocalyptic world?". The Bethesda Fallouts asked, "what if things happened... in a post-nuclear-apocalyptic world?".
The east coast and the west coast dont need to be similar in terms of their rebuilding after the war but good lord they should maybe provide some reasons why the east coast is lagging behind. "Evil underground robot manufacturers" isnt very convincing
Haiti and Japan are not equally developed but you can examine the reasons why and say "ok that makes sense" in bethesda fallout they're just like lol raiders and green hulk smash dudes is why the east coast is a hell hole