Who's best for America?

[Whammytap]

But why do they win by way of reunification?

The NCR, Legion,Brotherhood, Powder Gangers, Great Khans, Fiends, and a dozen more I've probably forgotten fight amongst themselves constantly, and I could see the Enclave ending the infighting. Brutally--yes, but ending it.

The Enclaves significance is their failure, they were the only faction (that we know of) that started before the war with a working hierarchy, access to bountiful resources and vast scientific knowledge, yet they lost out to an uneducated tribal and a tiny city state. One only has to look at their track record to see how utterly incompetent and evil they are were.

I do not have, nor have I ever entertained, any argument with this statement. It just makes me wonder if what The Chosen One did was for better or for worse in the long run, I mean the very long run. So far in the Fallout timeline, not much has changed for America.

Then again, my admittedly dark fascination with the Enclave is helped along by a love of terrifying-looking Power Armor, angry Drill Sergeants and Comm Officers, plasma, smooth-talking villains who don't even have to carry a weapon because they're flanked by brutes, and basically everything that falls under the "Evil Is Sexy" trope heading. Also my longing for a world where people who cut me off in traffic get mowed down with a Gatling Laser.

 

[Black Angel]

The NCR, Legion,Brotherhood, Powder Gangers, Great Khans, Fiends, and a dozen more I've probably forgotten fight amongst themselves constantly, and I could see the Enclave ending the infighting. Brutally--yes, but ending it.

How is that even possible when what's left of the Enclave is their Remnants, who's also wanted by the NCR to be tried for war crime, on top of that?

I do not have, nor have I ever entertained, any argument with this statement. It just makes me wonder if what The Chosen One did was for better or for worse in the long run, I mean the very long run. So far in the Fallout timeline, not much has changed for America.

Well, the NCR actually grew into one of the major powerhouse of the Post-Post-Post Apocalyptic West Coast of America (to the point that, iirc even Chris Avellone once wanted to actually wipe the slate clean with the NCR and make nuking the NCR from the Divide canon. In the end, he relented this idea and gave the player freedom to decide it, but that's a story for another time), and as can seen by the time of New Vegas, Mr. House already looked up to the stars, so based on your playthrough and what you wanted to happen, lots of things changed for America.

Honestly, I'm confused why would you want the Enclave to have another go for power-struggling in the Post-Post-Post-Apocalyptic America. People were already pissed off at them since Fallout 2, and even more as of Fallout 3. Fortunately they were wiped out both times (though the way it was done in Fallout 3 was outright dumb). Just.... let it rest. Caesar's Legion were far better faction than the Enclave with better chances to rebuild civilization on top of the ashes of the Old World.

 

[Whammytap]

Sorry, I never took debate and I apologize if I'm doing it wrong. The point I've been thinking of but not voicing for some reason is this: human beings are warlike. We also have a tendency to form groups, and these groups war upon each other. Fallout's post-apocalyptic America is in a constant state of civil war, if you could call it that, with the NCR and Legion as the primary forces in the West as of New Vegas. The Enclave appears to be the only faction with both an interest in and the means to end this civil war, and direct our inherent warlike behavior outside of our own borders. Become a world power again. 'Murica. Because no matter who wins, they will eventually just become the Enclave with a different name.

And yes, the player character ultimately decides who wins, but I've been thinking of this in terms of comparing it with the patterns of history, where death is permanent and the decisions of more than one person matter. In that case, the Enclave wouldn't have even pinged on the radar after the events of Fallout 2.

As you suggested, Black Angel, I have expressed my point to the best of my ability and will now "give it up."

 

[Operation Wignut]

Fallout's post-apocalyptic America is in a constant state of civil war, if you could call it that, with the NCR and Legion as the primary forces in the West as of New Vegas.

Shouldn't that just be counted as war? I mean, they have entirely different governments and cultures, and they didn't split a pre-existing nation. America was dead by the time the NCR rose, with the Enclave being little more than a mistranslation of pre-war ideals.

The Enclave appears to be the only faction with both an interest in and the means to end this civil war,

Well, not really. The Enclave has been whittled down, little by little, throughout the games. Even just taking post-Fallout 2 Enclave, there's still the fact that they're only human, and power struggles within the Enclave would be most probable. The idea of rule by Enclave would most likely incite at least anger towards the Enclave, and at most would end America as a concept because of the killings the Enclave would have to do, coupled with the lack of population.

and direct our inherent warlike behavior outside of our own borders. Become a world power again. 'Murica. Because no matter who wins, they will eventually just become the Enclave with a different name.

I mean, inevitability? It's all about implementation of action and governance. This government was never INEVITABLE. Many factors could have completely changed the political landscape and government. The entire Supreme Court was more of an afterthought to the Founding Fathers, and yet it's extremely important today.

EDIT: Completely contradicted myself like an ass lol

 

[Black Angel]

What Operation Wignut said. The Great War wiped the slate clean of the Old World USA, hence gave chance for newer, younger nations, society, and civilization to rise from its ashes, so it's not 'civil war'. The Enclave is basically a remnant of the Old World USA (and even this legitimacy was doubted and debated many times in this site), but hiding there in the Oil Rig, plotting and scheming to wipe out whatever live in the Wasteland doesn't really gave them the rights to rule. They have no interest in 'ending the 'civil' war', nor ruling whoever survived and lived in the Wasteland.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Well, the NCR actually grew into one of the major powerhouse of the Post-Post-Post Apocalyptic West Coast of America (to the point that, iirc even Chris Avellone once wanted to actually wipe the slate clean with the NCR and make nuking the NCR from the Divide canon. In the end, he relented this idea and gave the player freedom to decide it, but that's a story for another time), and as can seen by the time of New Vegas, Mr. House already looked up to the stars, so based on your playthrough and what you wanted to happen, lots of things changed for America.

I've found that Chris Avellone could have done MUCH better in doing that, like having a Legion victory. The Legion would threaten the NCR, defeat them but fall apart, leading to multiple splinter factions. The NCR would have had to adapt to the circumstances which could see widespread changes from a corrupt democracy to a corrupt dictatorship.