Who's best for America?

Good points, everybody. I am new here and really enjoying how everybody is able to discuss Fallout and world politics without devolving into cheap shots and name-calling...which puts NMA head and shoulders above many current real-life American politicians.

My two cents'? Do we honestly know enough about the Fallout factions to make an informed decision? Each game is a snapshot of certain representatives of a faction in a certain time and place. Dialogue options are limited; we can only interpret and extrapolate. This is part of the fun of the series.

I could argue for or against the Legion, the NCR, the Enclave, or multiple, organic independent nation-states. Personally, currently, I am exploring an Enclave alliance. They do indeed have the most/best resources at their disposal (or at least did at one time) and a good deal of solid infrastructure. I admire their drive and discipline. I'm not completely opposed to the idea of eugenics but I believe the Enclave should have recognized that there is really no such thing as a "pure" human being anymore--while the upper eschelons protected themselves from FEV and radiation, it left them with no genetic diversity, making them impure themselves. The fact that they want to populate the Wastes with these mythical "pure" humans yet continue to meddle with genetic engineering confuses me.

The idea that the Enclave "claims to be" the rightful American government pains me, because, like it or not, technically they ARE the rightful rulers, and the Brotherhood of Steel are turncoats. Now, of course, America was founded on that principle, so...

...Sorry, I'm blathering.

Comes down to the fact that humans are naturally social animals and we will always eventually team up somehow--families, tribes, factions, gangs, serfdoms, nation-states, what have you. We are incapable of maintaining a completely anarchic existence. Eventually there will be alliances. Government of some kind is inevitable. Conflict is also inevitable, and when you have this with a large enough social group it is called war.
 
I know it's unpopular to flirt with fascism, not to mention eugenics.

It depends on what your definition of "best" is. Everybody wants what they feel is "best." I just see the Enclave's potential to do good--whather or not the leadership will ever do it--and they probably will not. They have the capacity to create new technologies, not just recycle old ones. Everybody in the Wastes scrambling to get a G.E.C.K., a briefcase-sized terraforming kit, and here is the Enclave with the capability to do it on a massive scale. The NCR doesn't understand advanced technology and the Legion won't use it. The Brotherhood won't share anything they have. The Followers do, a noble cause, but they do not offer leadership. If the Commonwealths are to be united again, it would take a strong hand, good organization, communication, resources--all of which the Enclave has in spades. And we can't know the minutae of their plans. They are certainly not as communicative as some of the other factions.

The Enclave could be best for America. The potential is there. I am not trying to say they would. It seems like the most tragic waste in the whole universe, just a few things done a little differently and prosperity would be restored. Ahh, I always get hung up on some little detail. Perhaps I feel bad for the plasma-fodder Enclave soldiers who were expected (and willing) to sacrifice themselves in order to clean up the Wastes. I'm sure they believed they were doing right.

But then again, what do I know? The sixth toe didn't show up until it was too late to take it back.
 
Whammytap said:
I know it's unpopular to flirt with fascism, not to mention eugenics.

It depends on what your definition of "best" is. Everybody wants what they feel is "best." I just see the Enclave's potential to do good--whather or not the leadership will ever do it--and they probably will not. They have the capacity to create new technologies, not just recycle old ones. Everybody in the Wastes scrambling to get a G.E.C.K., a briefcase-sized terraforming kit, and here is the Enclave with the capability to do it on a massive scale. The NCR doesn't understand advanced technology and the Legion won't use it. The Brotherhood won't share anything they have. The Followers do, a noble cause, but they do not offer leadership. If the Commonwealths are to be united again, it would take a strong hand, good organization, communication, resources--all of which the Enclave has in spades. And we can't know the minutae of their plans. They are certainly not as communicative as some of the other factions.

The Enclave could be best for America. The potential is there. I am not trying to say they would. It seems like the most tragic waste in the whole universe, just a few things done a little differently and prosperity would be restored. Ahh, I always get hung up on some little detail. Perhaps I feel bad for the plasma-fodder Enclave soldiers who were expected (and willing) to sacrifice themselves in order to clean up the Wastes. I'm sure they believed they were doing right.

But then again, what do I know? The sixth toe didn't show up until it was too late to take it back.
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Based on what they did in FO2 though, I have my doubts of the Enclave being able to do any good for the Wasteland. There are good people in the Enclave (most of the Enclave Remnants, Whitley and Dr. Curling in the Oil Rig) but the rest of them have been indoctrinated for too long to regard their fellow humans of the Wasteland as people worth saving. Left to their own devices, I think the Enclave would have been the worst option for the Wasteland since their plans resemble Father Elijah's own plans for the Cloud. (Now that I think about it, I wonder if Elijah was inspired by them in some ways...)

The Remnants in New Vegas do humanize the Enclave rather well and manages to remind players that destroying the Enclave in 2 also meant destroying the homes of people who only knew of the Enclave as their home (even finding a way to present one's member ever-present loyalty to the Enclave as sympathetic).

3 should not have presented the Enclave like their old selves in 2 since it seemed more like a regression.
 
As I've said before, the Enclave are basically one of Alex Jones fantasies encased in power armour, so they are perfect to have as enemies, but not to play as.
 
Well said, CerberusGate. Perhaps the Enclave's greatest crime is not dehumanizing Wastelanders, but forcing Wastelanders to dehumanize Enclave members. Meeting the Remnants did indeed serve to humanize individual Enclave members; I feel bad for having played and won against them. Winner's guilt is the reason I've never been competitive in real life. I always end up sympathizing with the loser.

I debate in favor of the Enclave here because of the concept of "America." Their reach extends from sea to shining sea, they possess the infrastructure to unite the disparate areas into a whole. While the NCR or Legion might be best for the southwest and the Lyons Brotherhood might be best for the Capitol Wasteland, the reach and scope of these organizations are, at least so far, too local. If we're discussing reunification under a common entity, the Enclave wins by dint of no competition.

...but here I am arguing a weak technicality.
 
Whammytap said:
the Enclave wins by dint of no competition.
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But why do they win by way of reunification? The only thing they've managed to do in 200 years time is set up a forward operating base; meanwhile the NCR's set up a major state on its way to unifying the West and the Legion's dominated a huge chunk of America. The Enclave's only tangible achievements have been scientific, even there all they've done is made new WMDs and a couple of fancy helicopters reliant on an energy source that's almost entirely run out.
The Enclaves significance is their failure, they were the only faction (that we know of) that started before the war with a working hierarchy, access to bountiful resources and vast scientific knowledge, yet they lost out to an uneducated tribal and a tiny city state. One only has to look at their track record to see how utterly incompetent and evil they are were.
 
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