Why Communism/Anarchism can not work

[Jebus]

And what are your feelings on conformist pseudo-green "I`d say anything to get laid" honeybunny wannabe-punk anarchists then, Wooz?

 

[megatron]

You, sir, are not only an asshole, but also a dumb asshole.

You can't call someone names because they have a different opinion, you cunt. See, it's rude. Try to be civil in the future please

China is not a communist society, it's an authoritarian dictatorship. bla bla bla

I think this 100% prooves communism will never work then, right? Unless you can think of an example where communism worked anyplace, not just a government. Is your house communist? Perhaps you've worked somewhere where it's been communist. Nope, it never works. People are to stupid and greedy. You need order and authority and to rule with an iron fist. If you don't you eventually get people wanting that anyway because they're dumb.

To everyone else: F U!

edit: except welsh

 

[Wooz]

And what are your feelings on conformist pseudo-green "I`d say anything to get laid" honeybunny wannabe-punk anarchists then, Wooz?

She didn't say "anything" to get laid. She said she wanted to be abused.

 

[Brother None]

Stick to the subject and stay civil, people. Further deviations from the subject (AKA "stop changing the fucking subject"isms) and insulting posts from anyone will be split and Vatted.

 

[welsh]

Guys, I don't want to lock this thread down because you're mouthing off to each other.

Cut the crap and keep it civil.

 

[Kilus]

Dudes, just cause the outcome of a system is want you want doesn't mean it doesn't work. You don't think everyone likes the outcome of capitalism.

ps. Once the walmart supercomputer get powerenough it’ll hit the efficiency need for effective communism.

 

[megatron]

yeah but the reality and the theory of a system are different things and only the former matters perhaps.

you can join the army anyway, that's pretty communistical.

 

[Corpse]

People are to stupid and greedy. You need order and authority and to rule with an iron fist. If you don't you eventually get people wanting that anyway because they're dumb.

Sad but true, I came to the same conclusion long ago.

 

[Jabbapop]

People are to stupid and greedy. You need order and authority and to rule with an iron fist. If you don't you eventually get people wanting that anyway because they're dumb.

That's nothing but shallow cynicism. Your argument has been nothing but rehashing shallow platitudes that grade schoolers utter too often. In fact, the very foundation of this thread is baseless. Hopefully it will crumble under the weight of its own stupidity.

 

[Murdoch]

That's nothing but shallow cynicism. Your argument has been nothing but rehashing shallow platitudes that grade schoolers utter too often. In fact, the very foundation of this thread is baseless. Hopefully it will crumble under the weight of its own stupidity.

Hopefully it will?! Have you and I been reading the same thread?!

 

[Ashmo]

If I remember correctly Communism worked for a certain time in a small area somewhere in Spain earlier last century.
Or was that a form of anarchism? Don't remember the exact what- and whereabouts anymore.

Anyway. I'm not taunting you for your opinion but for your unqualified statements about issues you apparently don't comprehend.

Even IF (which I'm not sure of) there never was a communist community, that doesn't qualify as a point because we're talking about political theory, not discussing past political systems.

Just that something hasn't been sucessfully implemented yet doesn't mean it couldn't work. Even Microsoft employees know that.

 

[Bradylama]

If I remember correctly Communism worked for a certain time in a small area somewhere in Spain earlier last century.
Or was that a form of anarchism? Don't remember the exact what- and whereabouts anymore.

The system that worked was anarchistic, but that was, as you said, on a very small scale.

 

[quietfanatic]

I wrote a long essay on the Spanish Civil War so I know a bit about the Spanish experience. The anarchosyndicalism of the CNT worked on a fairly large scale for a time, although the individual units were small. Here is an interesting extract about the difference between the forces of the left.

On the Republic side, the conventional liberal parties such as the Partido Socialista del Obrero EspaÔol (PSOE), Spanish Labor Party were effectively marginalized, while the small Partido Comunista de EspaÔa (PCE) or Communist party also gained huge influence beyond its numbers, due to the influence of Soviet intervention. Initially the more important groups were the far more numerous labour movements of the anarchist
ConfederaciÙn Nacional de Trabajo (CNT), their more radical splinter group the FederaciÙn Anarquista Ib¾rica (FAI) and the more conventional union movement of the UniÙn General de Trabadores (UGT).

The largest group, the CNT-FAI, were anarchosyndicalists (many members were not at first, but the momentous events and propaganda helped to sway them to the cause), whose extensive union movement involved the running of society at a grass-roots, level, by the workers of individual sindicatos or syndicalist trade unions. Hence, syndicalism is anti-authoritarian. The democratic, federalist, and decentralized economic units of the people replace the centralized power of the state and all people were to have complete freedom. Note however that these anarchists still had a developed organisational structure, involving workers’ committees and regional congresses. This was highly democratic and all decisions were non-binding, each collectivised community having complete autonomy.

‘In contrast to Marxist movements, Spanish Anarchism placed a strong emphasis on life style: on a total remaking of the individual along libertarian lines. It deeply valued spontaneity, passion, and initiative from below. And it thoroughly detested authority and hierarchy in any form.’

The success of this movement was because it so suited the Spanish temperament and their societal structure of the tightly knit traditional communities of the urban barrios and rural pueblos. The regional identity of village life was concurrent with the new libertarian ideas from overseas which were in common with the Spanish psyche. It opposes political action, political parties, and any participation in political elections. Methodology to bring about the desired change involved direct action such as strikes, sabotage, obstruction, and most importantly, the revolutionary general strike.

The anarchosyndicalists of the CNT-FAI were forced to compromise and take part in the Popular Front, and lost much of their influence due to the attacks of the powerful Communist faction, who used propaganda to undermine the following of Spanish Anarchism. They were not Communist though, although their ultimately socialist revolutionary vision may been seen as Communist by the lay outsider. They were totally against the concept of the state, wanting to dissolve political power and abolish capitalism. It should still be noted that they were just as strongly opposed to Marxist ideas as the Fascists, leading to rising tensions within the Republican Popular Front.

The PSE was able to gain so much influence within the leftist camp due to their ability to monopolize the propaganda machine in most areas, because of the success of their aggressive tactics and more efficient organisation. They were almost directly under the control of the Comintern, or Communist International and gained much prestige from the aid they received from the Soviet Union, which ensured that only Communist sympathizers were given armaments and supplies. Although they were ‘pure’ Communists, the irony was that the party line was counter-revolutionary. Possibly aiming to gain the support of the Western democracies, the official objective of the Communists was to restore parliamentary democracy. (George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia (London, 1938) Appendix I) They ruthlessly tried to roll back the advances made by the more revolutionary groups such as by reversing the anarchist experiments in collectivisation. They also gained control of the PSUC, the Catalan Communists, and gained a strong hold on the wavering UGT. As the Leaders were Stalinist, they suppressed the Partido Obrero de UnificaciÙn Marxista (POUM), a Trotskyist inspired revolutionary movement that supported the concept of permanent revolution. They were vilified by the Communists as Fascist traitors and excluded from power as were the disunited anarchosyndicalists. The government had little influence on affairs, but they still cooperated with the Communists who had gained the greatest support and coordination. They carried out the idea of creating a ‘popular army’ to replace the militias that the Communists couldn’t control, such as the CNT and POUM.

Therefore, although the Communists were not the majority on the left, their influence was so great that they were able to effectively take control of the Republic. They did not act on their ideology but would likely have acted on their pledge to help revolution, only after the war had been won.

I have not read the relevant general works on Communism and Anarchism, so I cannot make an honest assessment on these theories. Maybe I will never have the time, or motivation, to read the necessary stuff, like Das Kapital or whatever. No doubt several NMA members have, so maybe they would be so kind as to enlighten us with a summary.