Why Fallout 3 is not as bad as most people on this forum think

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You have to wonder if they have any kind of money interest in that issue.
If not, they miss an opportunity.

Or we are so much stubborn that we sometimes become paranoid when we find something unbelievable.

No need to get paraniod. I've seen people like that before IRL, you don't have to pay them for forum activity. He's got quite a high motivation to be doing what he's doing - he want his tastes to be acknowledged as what he sees as legit, but doesn't seem to realize that people with his tastes were pandered to at the expense of everyone else for a very long time. He probably just wants to feel worthwhile, but at the same time for him this also means progressive, forward thinking, advanced, worthy of respect, "part of the solution" and all that. Problem is, it isn't. His perspective is extremely biased and conservative. And he's invested, so looking at the big picture gets him nothing, at least no self-respect. Thing is, if this discussion was relevant on a grand scale and could somehow miraculously influence game development, and he "won" - nothing at all changes and nothing goes anywhere, but he gets to feel incredibly good about himself. If the other side "wins" - we get what we like or can easily live with, and he doesn't even notice. There was a TeS game he would've thought was the pinnacle achievement in computer gaming at the time of it's release which both of us would feel good about purchasing (Morrowind), and Fallout 3 could've been a lot better without being turn based (or could've been a post-apoc open world TeS-like game with different lore / franschise cred he'd buy and like, which I could easily ignore). But the development was infulenced by "gamers are schoolchildren and shallow idiots who'll buy anything if you hype it enough" mentality, so people like him were the primary target audience - except he wants to feel like there were development considerations behind it which make him look like a deeper and more respectable human being on top of it.

As BuxBaum666 nicely asked - which of your * were taken out of context, Mathius?
 
I didn't specifically said he was that guy, even if didn't said he wasn't.
I was thinking about a member with a very close username that started many thread recently, with just a single sentence in each and disapeared recently. The guy even went as far as saying that every single quest of Fallout 3 was perfect.

On the other hand, i don't know enough what Bethesda did before and after Fallout 3. Considering what they did with Fallout 3, i don't want to play any of their other game for now. (they even disguted me of the whole open-world genre. Too bad i'd just bought GTA IV)

So, if i know the results of Bethesda, i don't know their intends and mindset.

I can be 100% if they did shit on purpose or if they tried to do something a failed miserably. So, i can't be sure if they will learn for their mistakes and manage to make an Average Fallout or have the guts to admit they unability to make Fallout games and let Obsidian do next episodes. If like you said, doing shit was Bethesda goal all along, then we are screwed even more.
 
Well, isn't that a convenient answer.

Seriously? We've been going at it for pages here, and you decide to drop in at the end of the conversation, pull 8 sentences out of context and try to act like that's making a point and then you're gonna act like I'm the one pulling shenanigans? Not likely dude.

No need to get paraniod. I've seen people like that before IRL, you don't have to pay them for forum activity. He's got quite a high motivation to be doing what he's doing - he want his tastes to be acknowledged as what he sees as legit, but doesn't seem to realize that people with his tastes were pandered to at the expense of everyone else for a very long time. He probably just wants to feel worthwhile, but at the same time for him this also means progressive, forward thinking, advanced, worthy of respect, "part of the solution" and all that.

Please. I don't need your approval to feel worth while. To put it quite bluntly, I'm not crazy about you to begin with. You've yet to come up with one counterpoint to any of the actual data I've listed except to point out that you think the game is stupid and the number of copies sold doesn't mean it was good and now you're onto conspiracy theories about how Bethesda needs to put plants on message boards to make people love a game that they moved on from 5 years ago.

As BuxBaum666 nicely asked - which of your * were taken out of context, Mathius?

Nothing was asked nicely.

How about accusing me of being a graphics whore, despite the fact that I mentioned that I used to play text based MUDs and I mentioned several times that FO1 and 2 were good games. EVERY time I spoke about better graphics, I pointed out it was a preference. I also mentioned that I've played all Bethesda's games without downloading any beautification mods.

Lets look at some of the other points he tried to make:

Complaining about invisible walls in FO3 vs. NV. The only invisible walls I recall in DC were at the edges of the map, or where it made logical sense like a pile of rubble that was supposed to be impassible. Unlike New Vegas where you can literally run into an invisible wall with nothing in front of you.

Comparing playing isometric games to reading a book and having an imagination. Books are text. There's nothing there but your imagination. It's pretty ridiculous to argue that an isometric view is more realistic than a 3d game because I'm not using my imagination well enough. Because people don't normally walk around looking at things like this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...uKikNFN5jQwu0wPMvwMe7slA&ust=1394197978174268

You guys keep bringing up the Kickstarter pages like that proves these games are a success. You know what I think that proves? That the studios making those games weren't succesfully enough to fund the games on their own, they had to beg for the cash. But hey, that's the new American dream, just beg for something on Kickstarter instead of earning it yourself.

How about this one:
Logical fallacy: turn-based equals "inferior graphics".

Go back to school; There's nothing in this sentence that equates one to the other:
Mathius said:
Even if someone were to make another turn based fallout, people are not going to pay full price $60 at launch for it with inferior graphics.

Nowhere, anywhere in that sentence does it say anything that means turn based games have inferior graphics. Those are two separate points and the only reason they share that sentence is because of YOUR persistence in pushing the Isometric style of play.

Ha, right. You're the "hero" so defeating death claws and super mutants should be a cake walk. Even in a supposed RPG at a low level.

You're right I should be able to. You're sidestepping the issue anyways. Again, taken out of context. The point was that you are railroaded into the doing the main quest at level 1.

And lets say that Bethesda bought every single publication in the world. This is not 1997 anymore, kiddies. It's 2014. Bethesda can't buy the internet. Unless you're now suggesting that they hired someone to create a bunch of user accounts and jump on sights like Metacritic and IMDB just to jump their game ratings. Seriously. How much denial can you guys be in?
 
And lets say that Bethesda bought every single publication in the world. This is not 1997 anymore, kiddies. It's 2014. Bethesda can't buy the internet. Unless you're now suggesting that they hired someone to create a bunch of user accounts and jump on sights like Metacritic and IMDB just to jump their game ratings. Seriously. How much denial can you guys be in?

My thought's exactly - this isn't 1997 anymore, son, it's 2014. So noone needs to buy up every media outlet as there's obviously self-justification seeking dorks with a decent internet connection out there that'll spam for free. Folks AAA guys have been pandering to for ages finally have a means to get their voices herd - and they are saying "Yes! We do indeed lack immagination, and we're proud of it! You can slack on everything but hardware requirements even more! FO:NV was the wrong direction!"

But it's also 2014, so what's gonna be made and get proper funding isn't determined by guys in suits as much as it used to be, it's not guesswork and at least with kickstarter devs can negotiate with their audience beforehand and ASK them what they want. Or if what they want to do is what the audience will pay for, or if there's a large enough audience for it. So instead of only hitting the lowest common denominator crowd, they can also hit other folks too. You can also finally make a largeish game without securing funds from hardware companies, too. And with online distributors you can sidestepp all the lobbying that goes on in the distribution bussiness. It's not begging for cash, it's getting cash from customers while sidestepping all the middle men - and if that's so abhorrent to you then you really don't understand anything.
 
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The thing about forum user being paid is not statement, but theory, and even there, is more about irony/suggestion, as it would be a shame to waste that energy for free.
The thing about critics being paid is not an area i am fully aware. But considering the easily corruptible of human nature, it doesn't seem to me unlikely.
But i is not forbidden not to believe in it.

On the other hand, quality being different than number of selling is a fact, not a theory. If you take movies, for instance, there are many mainstream action movies with big actor, that sell pretty well in the summer. Many people go for it to share a moment with their friends, with no intend of invest themselves into the product. Most of them will forget this one, when they will see another movie. (as i am fairly confident that most Fallout 3 players will no longer play it, as soon as they will get Fallout 4) Even there, with low expectation, it is possible that some of them will hate that movie. This mean shit, for those who distribute it, as they already took your money. There are actually many films that i watched and paid for that were very awfull. There are other movie that i watched without expecting anything. I just wanted to go to the theater that specifc day, and i forgot those movies a week later.

On the other hand, there are movies that were made by unknown directors, from independant studios, that didn't sell as much as the mainsteam, but made an ever lasting impression for those who watched them. (some of them sold well, some sold poor, some directors were famous while alive, other not)
You take Melies, for instance. The guy was almost an homeless guy by the time he died, while he is considerer as god almost a centuary later. Guys like Lovecraft were almost uknown when alive.

I am NOT saying that Quality = Poor sells. But that those factors are not related to each other. You have good selling, you only need to sell units, not make people love it, or play it for decades.

Beside that, kickstarter doesn't mean "We are doing shit, give us money or we die hungry", but "The big studios think that only some genre/kind of games (HD open-world for instance) should be made and refuse to invest money on our projects. So, i ask you, gamers, do you think you would want to play that kind of games ?" Managing to make millions in just a few days seems to mean that the answer is yes, many players want that kind of game.

I would say, on a side note, that most revolutionay games/movies/books made history by going agains't the general consensus of the studios/publishers. They were the free thinker in the middle of an army of clones. And they did touched the audience.

But once again, the point is not to forbid some kind of games, like open-world, but to remind there are other genre, as the audience is not made of endless identical brainless clones, but players are different kinds of people that have different kinds of taste. So top down perspective, Turn-based combat, RPG, should be as available as RTS, FPS, Open-world, sport-game, culture quizz, Race etc...

Another point that i am fairly convinced is that if you want to make a proper sequel of a franchise, you have to be faithfull to its core aspects. That's why you will never hear any complain about GTA players that GTA 5 is too open-world, that there are many pointless places, that the character don't have a deep psychology (i didn't say no psychology), that cars make travels too easy, that the games lack of focus, that some moments make no sense, that the dev put more effort in scenery than writting (although the writting is ok). People don't make this complain about GTA IV, because it is faithfull to what the GTA franchise was always about. The same cannot be said about Fallout 3.

Even if i don't like a game like Fallout 3, it could be okay to make a game like this, and okay for anyone to like it. It is not okay to sell it as a sequel of Fallout 1-2 when it share too little in common. It is not okay to tell it is an improvement over Fallout 1-2 while they sacrified all the identity of the franchise, everything that made it deep, enjoyable and different from other franchises, to make a product that stand poorly on its own, is not differents that other games of the same period, and seems more like a way to promote their map designers that a proper RPG. Unfortunatly, this isn't even free to play.
 
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Even if i don't like a game like Fallout 3, it could be okay to make a game like this, and okay for anyone to like it. It is not okay to sell it as a sequel of Fallout 1-2 when it share too little in common. It is not okay to tell it is an improvement over Fallout 1-2 while they sacrified all the identity of the franchise, everything that made it deep, enjoyable and different from other franchises, to make a product that stand poorly on its own, is not differents that other games of the same period, and seems more like a way to promote their map designers that a proper RPG. Unfortunatly, this isn't even free to play.

And there we are back at square one with the claim that Bethesda **** on the fans.

I'm so done arguing with you guys.
 
...it's easier to simply enjoy Fallout 3 than try to change the opinions of others on it. I long, long ago gave up arguing over it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of Fallout 3. It matters that I enjoy it. People can dissect and debate it until whatever was fun about the game is entirely gone. Someone else saying it sucks as a Fallout game or just sucks in general cannot take away my enjoyment. I don't need them to enjoy it or agree with me. That's a good stance to take.

^^ I'm full of good advice guys. Don't make me vat this thread... y'all are takin' this way too seriously. They're just video games, who cares if someone else doesn't like the same ones the same way you do? How often does a diehard fan walk away from one of these threads with a changed opinion?
:falloutonline:
 
^^ I'm full of good advice guys. Don't make me vat this thread... y'all are takin' this way too seriously. They're just video games, who cares if someone else doesn't like the same ones the same way you do? How often does a diehard fan walk away from one of these threads with a changed opinion?
:falloutonline:

I just don't understand the inconsistency of having a Fallout 3 board just to have it filled with threads bashing the game. People who genuinely like the game are not going to come here and talk about it if they're constantly nagged with ridiculous logic like this that Bethesda pays people to act like they like the game. If these guys don't like FO3, why don't they stay on the general fallout discussion board? I've never met a more intolerant and negative group of people.
 
I just don't understand the inconsistency of having a Fallout 3 board just to have it filled with threads bashing the game.

Threads are made by the users of the forum and sometimes... they have opinions. You don't have to participate in the negative ones or argue with people that disagree. If someone says Fallout 3 is shit and you love it, it's not a personal attack on you.

People who genuinely like the game are not going to come here and talk about it if they're constantly nagged with ridiculous logic like this that Bethesda pays people to act like they like the game. If these guys don't like FO3, why don't they stay on the general fallout discussion board? I've never met a more intolerant and negative group of people.

Just ignore them man... and participate in more positive/less antagonizing threads. The thread itself is titled "Why Fallout 3 is not as bad as most people on this forum think", which is basically a challenge to the type of people that are going to argue about something stupid to start posting. There is no winning end game here, unless you count being frustrated. And the reality is a lot of (if not most) people here just aren't fans of Fallout 3. This site was created long, long before Fallout 3 so a sizable portion of the user base is going to be "old school".

I'm probably the biggest Fallout 3 fan here and I'm like... runnin' the site now. So yeah, Fallout 3 fans can do alright here. It's a much smoother and enjoyable experience if you just don't care that someone else doesn't like it. Like really... who cares. I'm going to play Fallout 3 tonight most likely. I don't care how shitty people think the quests are.
 
^ This is good advice. Why make/participate in a thread about "Fallout 3 not being as bad as most people on this forum think" and then be frustrated when people who think it IS that bad show up? Without them there's noone bashing Fallout 3, with them you have to defend the game past the point of "I like it". And then if you try to make reasons why you like it into universal criteria you're bound to get people who don't share your views in there just to tell you that "no, you liking something doesn't necessarily make it slightly bit good". At this point this means people who don't like Fallout 3 (I'm not a huge fan of Fallout 2 either :D) are posting in the Fallout 3 boards looking like jackasses.

So don't, if I can find ways to participate in the regular fallout boards on this forum without pissing people off left and right, you can probably do the same on the Fallout 3 boards. I don't participate in any other Fallout 3 thread, you sort of pulled me into this one with your attitude specificaly. And we could've been having this discussion on any boards on the internet over an assortment of games, I'm not even much of a regular here...

EDIT: In other words, liking Fallout 3 isn't a problem, it's not a case of Fallout 3 being bashed by loony fallout vets. But the way you specificaly talk about it makes you look more like a AAA spambot than an actual person, enough to warrant a jab about how you could get paid for that sort of thing in the game review bussiness. It's a case of your specific outlook on values when it comes to gaming being so alien that you've got people who don't care much for Fallout 3 in the Fallout 3 boards checking this thread out in disbelief.

ˇ That's what an actual original game fan telling you to shove off would look like, just so you can compare.
 
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The Fallout 3 forum is more for discussing how FO3 fits in the FO universe, the bad aspects of it and how to fix it.There is little to no love or any sort of likeness of FO3 in this site. You won't see much people praising FO3 aspects ( maybe atmosphere and world design,maybe).

Discussing FO3 at this point of the game isn't worth anymore, we have tons of threads discussing every aspect of it and in the end nothing is accomplished. People who didn't like still don't like it and people who like it still do. One of the reasons that I didn't continue discussing here ( apart from having no time lately)

The only activated here are fixing FO3, what we learned and trolls thread (looking to the creator of this thread)

Just follow Korin advice.
 
Alright, I think we've gotten all we can get out of this thread... let's close'r up.
 
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