TheHouseAlwaysWins
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
I was blown away by it. It wasn't just less casualized, but everything/ about it was a lot better than future Bethesda titles, why is it so good NMA? Bloodmoon isn't that good though imo tbh
Why is Morrowind so good compared to future titles?
- Thread starter TheHouseAlwaysWins
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Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
YOU N'WAH.
But besides that, Morrowind is one of my all time favorite games. It has so many creative locations and all 3 Great House areas vary by quite a lot. For only an island, Vvardenfell sure has a lot of diversity going on. House Hlaalu is surrounded by big pretty forests, fields of grass, and mucky swamps. House Redoran is surrounded by volcanic ash, rock/mountains, and desert on all sides, although some of that is due to Dagoth Ur. House Telvanni is mostly coastal/island and they all live in big mushroom houses they cultivated themselves. Basically every location feels different, and that's very important. Compare this to later titles like Skyrim for example, where every now and then you'd have a new-looking location to explore like Blackreach with its neon mushrooms and giant plant life, but for the most part every cave and dungeon was just Draugr Draugr Draugr. Morrowind mixed it up a lot.
I think another thing that sets Morrowind apart from its successors was that the difficulty cap feels real. For example, when you first start the game off, 50% of your attacks are going to miss even with the weapon you're best at. To put it bluntly, you've been a prisoner all your life and you suck at everything. Slowly but surely however, as you begin to cultivate your skills and begin to level up through rigorous training, you get more and more powerful and miss less and less as you hone your craft. Not to mention the truly powerful artifacts you can get throughout the game. It isn't like Skyrim where you can find a legendary weapon every 2 seconds, in Morrowind there are entire quests dedicated around truly legendary weapons/armor/accessories of old (including a museum even where you can sell the most valuable items for more money than anything else in the game). To keep going with this, I also feel like in Morrowind your character isn't some "jack of all trades and master of none" like in Skyrim. Instead it's best to try and stick with a select class, such as a mage, a rogue, or a warrior, which is also reflected by the Great Houses. This leads to replayability to see what joining a different House and using a different class would be like, unlike Skyrim where you can become literally anything and be the Thane of all 9 cities, the leader of the Companions, the DB, and the Thieves Guild all at once. Not to mention once you join a Great House the others are locked out to you, there's no way to do everything in a single playthrough, which helps make the game feel even longer. Not to mention secret guilds you may not even know about the first time you play, such as an anti-slavery guild.
That's not even going over how every single area in the game usually has SOMETHING of value in it, whether it be a quest hidden in the bowels of a Dwemer ruin where an ancient vampire awaits to be freed, or finding a sunken ruin to a Daedric Lord buried out in the middle of nowhere deep in the ocean. It makes you want to explore everywhere because you never know what you're going to find. Morrowind is crammed full of secrets, side quests, slaves to free, and so forth to keep you interested. My first run of Morrowind took me over 100 hours because I wanted to try and find everything.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Morrowind as a game is absolute dog shit, sorry but unless modded it sucks dog balls. The writing.... the world... the lore... now that, that's what made Morrowind for me. If someone made it into an isometric RPG I would cry 'BLISS' because it solves the shitty gameplay, but keeps the beautiful lore, which lets be honest is all that matters.
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
@Dr Fallout , What're you even talking about now you quack? I loved Morrowind's gameplay, what's wrong with it? It actually feels like you're progressing as the game goes along for starters, the game forces you to actually be smart with how you're going to play the game instead of just trying to be everything ever, and the spell crafting.. Oh the spell crafting. Why the Hell has Bethesda never brought back being able to make custom spells? That was one of my favorite parts of Morrowind. Getting tired of walking around Vivec because of how huge it is? Go make yourself a levitation spell and a spell that reduces blinding while wearing the Boots of Blinding Speed and never worry about wanting fast travel again. Not to mention you can feel more like a god than Vivec and Almalexia by the end of it with all the super loot you can get in that game.
I'm serious, what's wrong with it you s'wit? It actually feels like a challenge instead of cheap difficulty spike like how in Skyrim and Oblivion instead of interesting AI or enemies using both magic and weapons they just give the enemies 1 million HP and tell you to go fuck yourself.
I'm serious, what's wrong with it you s'wit? It actually feels like a challenge instead of cheap difficulty spike like how in Skyrim and Oblivion instead of interesting AI or enemies using both magic and weapons they just give the enemies 1 million HP and tell you to go fuck yourself.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
morrowind has far larger flaws as a game than later TES games.
For example does this sentence make sense to you:
let's make the game first person real time but make combat dice-based!
The combat should have been like oblivion's or it should have been isometric turn based.
The dialogue system is also shit for an RPG IMO. But it works great for what morrowind is; an interactive lorebook.
Morrowind fails ag being a game. What morrowind does excell at is what makes it such a great way to pass the time. Morrowind is great at lore, world design, art direction, weapon variety, spell variety, and there is like at least 15 different distinct cultures on vvardenfell. The later titles have none of that. And that is why I think morrowind is better than the later titles despite being inferior as a video game.
For example does this sentence make sense to you:
let's make the game first person real time but make combat dice-based!
The combat should have been like oblivion's or it should have been isometric turn based.
The dialogue system is also shit for an RPG IMO. But it works great for what morrowind is; an interactive lorebook.
Morrowind fails ag being a game. What morrowind does excell at is what makes it such a great way to pass the time. Morrowind is great at lore, world design, art direction, weapon variety, spell variety, and there is like at least 15 different distinct cultures on vvardenfell. The later titles have none of that. And that is why I think morrowind is better than the later titles despite being inferior as a video game.
A lot of people blaming how shit they are at the game on the game and not themselves right now.
Morrowind's combat really isn't that bad when you take the time to get used to it, it's far better than Skyrim's slow, weightless flailing that's for sure.
Morrowind had deeper combat, more attributes, weapons, weapon types, spells, schools of magic and deep and rewarding factions to join and play as.
Making it isometric would be retarded and unnecessary.
The dialog is also superior as characters have a LOT more things to say instead of the small handful of topics from an even smaller pool of voice actors.
Morrowind doesn't "fail at being a game" you just failed at being a competent player and maybe Morrowind is just a little too much for you.
Morrowind's combat really isn't that bad when you take the time to get used to it, it's far better than Skyrim's slow, weightless flailing that's for sure.
Morrowind had deeper combat, more attributes, weapons, weapon types, spells, schools of magic and deep and rewarding factions to join and play as.
Making it isometric would be retarded and unnecessary.
The dialog is also superior as characters have a LOT more things to say instead of the small handful of topics from an even smaller pool of voice actors.
Morrowind doesn't "fail at being a game" you just failed at being a competent player and maybe Morrowind is just a little too much for you.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
No, its not that horrible once you're used to it but purely from a design perspective it makes no sense to make that call. Real time dice based combat in first person. Tell me that doesn't sound retarded on paper. I can put up with morrowind's combat because its not the worst thing... But its still retarded.
"this combat system that works perfectly fine as intended is retarded because.......... it's just retarded omg"
It doesn't sound retarded at all. Sometimes you have a chance of missing or doing a critical attack. It allows you to have things like the enemy dodging your sword or whatever while taking into account the shitty animations that can't do that.
The issue with later TES is that Oblivion feels generic while Skyrim feels too dumbed down.
I guess Morrowind managed to capture the middle ground of making a game dumbed down to its previous title but still keep the hardcore elements.
I've put in about 12 hours in total so I've not played much of it, but what I have played feels like a World that's come to life.
Skyrim feels like a Game World, and while I'll say the setting and environments are impressive at times, the actual game feels like it was made by writers and programmers. I guess this isn't so much of a problem if the original intention was to just make a game.
But Bethesda pride themselves on making Worlds, and so later TES games feel less like actual breathing Worlds and more like coded events that happen.
Skyrim is good until you've completed the same Dungeon for the fifth time.
I still enjoy Skyrim, but it's left a bad taste in my mouth, mostly on how the game feels very boring.
Fighting Dragons was dull, the Last Boss was dull, the story rushes you, the DLC is dull.
I had more fun with Oblivion, and that's a game universally hated by Elder Scrolls fans.
I guess Morrowind had a magical touch to it that hasn't been done since.
And I guess it's not commercial enough to sell it to Bethesda's new core audience.
I guess Morrowind managed to capture the middle ground of making a game dumbed down to its previous title but still keep the hardcore elements.
I've put in about 12 hours in total so I've not played much of it, but what I have played feels like a World that's come to life.
Skyrim feels like a Game World, and while I'll say the setting and environments are impressive at times, the actual game feels like it was made by writers and programmers. I guess this isn't so much of a problem if the original intention was to just make a game.
But Bethesda pride themselves on making Worlds, and so later TES games feel less like actual breathing Worlds and more like coded events that happen.
Skyrim is good until you've completed the same Dungeon for the fifth time.
I still enjoy Skyrim, but it's left a bad taste in my mouth, mostly on how the game feels very boring.
Fighting Dragons was dull, the Last Boss was dull, the story rushes you, the DLC is dull.
I had more fun with Oblivion, and that's a game universally hated by Elder Scrolls fans.
I guess Morrowind had a magical touch to it that hasn't been done since.
And I guess it's not commercial enough to sell it to Bethesda's new core audience.
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
It doesn't at all. How else are you going to simulate missing with a weapon? If you're level 1 and straight off the boat you should NOT be able to use a damn weapon straight away. Imagine it like this:
You've just arrived in Morrowind, you've had some very minor training in Short Weapons before coming to the island. As you walk around the first town a big ugly high elf woman tasks you with getting rid of a cave full of bandits. "Great!" you say, thinking this will be a walk in the park, because what are filthy bandits compared to your might? Of course, you get your ass handed to you once you step inside because you don't know your ass from your knife handle. IRL if you're being attacked by giant rats in a cave and you barely know how to use a weapon I highly doubt you'd actually be able to kill it in a couple of hits or even land that many hits. When you first start off it's meant to simulate you have no idea what you're doing. By the time Level 10 rolls around you'll barely miss with your chosen weapon at all. I know this because I've tested it with multiple characters. First guy was a rogue with a proficiency for archery. For the first few hours of gameplay he had a hard time hitting the broad side of a Telvanni mushroom. But by the time level 10 rolled around there was no such thing as cliffracers anymore because he was able to one shot them from a great distance. It makes you feel accomplished seeing your character go from someone who would probably hold their weapon on the sharp end to someone who's able to fell a bandit in full iron armor in just a couple of swings.
You fucking casual, I have over 300 hours in the game. 12 hours is not enough time at all to judge Morrowind fully. That's barely enough time to even hit level 10 I would imagine unless you're playing on -0 difficulty.
You've just arrived in Morrowind, you've had some very minor training in Short Weapons before coming to the island. As you walk around the first town a big ugly high elf woman tasks you with getting rid of a cave full of bandits. "Great!" you say, thinking this will be a walk in the park, because what are filthy bandits compared to your might? Of course, you get your ass handed to you once you step inside because you don't know your ass from your knife handle. IRL if you're being attacked by giant rats in a cave and you barely know how to use a weapon I highly doubt you'd actually be able to kill it in a couple of hits or even land that many hits. When you first start off it's meant to simulate you have no idea what you're doing. By the time Level 10 rolls around you'll barely miss with your chosen weapon at all. I know this because I've tested it with multiple characters. First guy was a rogue with a proficiency for archery. For the first few hours of gameplay he had a hard time hitting the broad side of a Telvanni mushroom. But by the time level 10 rolled around there was no such thing as cliffracers anymore because he was able to one shot them from a great distance. It makes you feel accomplished seeing your character go from someone who would probably hold their weapon on the sharp end to someone who's able to fell a bandit in full iron armor in just a couple of swings.
You fucking casual, I have over 300 hours in the game. 12 hours is not enough time at all to judge Morrowind fully. That's barely enough time to even hit level 10 I would imagine unless you're playing on -0 difficulty.
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R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
"Works perfectly fine" yeah I love watching arrows phase through people's face and through the floor to disappear forever lost because I failed a dice roll. I love watching a sword make contact in real time but the creature takes no damage because I failed a dice roll. Maybe if they had proper "dodging" animations but then again morrowind couldn't even pull of walking animations. Again its not the worst thing but it is stupid."this combat system that works perfectly fine as intended is retarded because.......... it's just retarded omg"
It doesn't sound retarded at all. Sometimes you have a chance of missing or doing a critical attack. It allows you to have things like the enemy dodging your sword or whatever while taking into account the shitty animations that can't do that.
I just said that the dice roll accounts for the lack of a dodging animation.
So Morrowind fails at a game because it's not pretty enough for you?
I've only really had it for about a year, and even then, I need to sort out a list of games to play (I have a mental note of this however).
Also, I don't get the best time in the World.
I'll get back to you once I've put in more hours through.
And FYI, who do you think I am?
A Bethesda Fan?
I can think when playing my games.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
you said that in an edit your post was originally essentially a shitpost. And no, but it does destroy immersion if there's no dodge animation in a first person game. Which could have easily been a thing in a- you guessed it- turn based game. Real-time+turn based with no dodge animations... Why? Honestly this isn't that horrible unless you're an archer. Then its just... Jfc.
People who complain about seeing weapons go through enemies and miss are not P&P RPG players.
Remember kids, back then there wasn't these "RPGs" that do not take into account the character's abilities and instead use the players skill in battle.
Fuck the player's skill of mashing a button as fast as he can, if your character doesn't know which side of the sword is supposed to be pointed at the enemy then it should miss, a lot. The "weapons go through enemies" is because of the technology and engine limitations.
What destroys immersion is to always bullseye when never in my character's life he shot a bow for example.
People used to use something called imagination when they played RPGs, I think people today just want super realistic stuff for some reason.
Remember kids, back then there wasn't these "RPGs" that do not take into account the character's abilities and instead use the players skill in battle.
Fuck the player's skill of mashing a button as fast as he can, if your character doesn't know which side of the sword is supposed to be pointed at the enemy then it should miss, a lot. The "weapons go through enemies" is because of the technology and engine limitations.
What destroys immersion is to always bullseye when never in my character's life he shot a bow for example.
People used to use something called imagination when they played RPGs, I think people today just want super realistic stuff for some reason.
Ninja
Who?
Gotta agree with you here. If they don't have the animations for dodging, don't try to do this weird, "I saw my sword enter his abdomen but he's not hit", shit. Just make it a system you have the technology for at the time, like turn-based isometric, or just kill the dice roll idea.
Again, use a system that makes sense for it. It is also pretty dumb to be a master swordsman/archer/whatever the hell at level 1, but it also looks wonky if you try to integrate dice rolling into it.
No, that's literally what you're saying. That bullshit you're tasting is your own.
You said your problem was that it has a dice roll without the visual of you missing. That's what you said, that's your gripe. That the game did not have appropriate visuals to what was happening. That the game didn't have some fancy animation to show that you missed and instead just has you miss.
You're complaining the game doesn't have the right visuals to appease you.
>complains about me putting words in his mouth
>posts this shit
Quote me where I said that my post was a shitpost.
It's a game from 2002......
Sorry that the immersion shattering effect of an old game not having dodge animations somehow means
But it doesn't have to be in a turn based game and TES was never a turned based game to begin with so basically you want the series to change what it always did and did just fine to suit your needs.
You're like the Fallout 3/4 fan of Elder Scrolls games
What the fuck are you talking about? It's dice roll based not turned based do you even know what these terms mean?
I do admit, Morrowind is very jarring for people not used to the combat system.
But I think it works, it's a rewarding system that is very customizable.
But I think it works, it's a rewarding system that is very customizable.
If Morrowind's game mechanics bothers a player, that player probably should go back in time to when it wasn't that out of the ordinary. Games now are much more dynamic and hefty, sure, you swing a sword and you whack an enemy ragdolling around.
And Ragemage, you're an amateur Morrowinder compared to me, I've *replayed* that game 300 times! M-hm! But yes, one can't judge it by the first moments of it, because everything - *everything* is about progression. Someone who has only played the game for a couple of days will never know what it means to run like the wind for example.
A fully levelled Morrowind protagonist beats the shit out of all the Dragonbornes in the world, and YES once you get used to the combat mechanics, fighting in late game feels like a ballet of war. Sometimes I have cleared a room full of enemies in just one, single spiralling move
Gameplay isn't bad - at all - it's *different* and just a matter of getting used to. Look at FO1 and 2, compared to new FPS type games. Does FO2 have *bad* gameplay? Some would probably insist that it does, you point your gun AT someones eye, shoot their eye - with a gun - and withdraw 12 hit points from an opponent who keeps coming at you. What the fuck? But that's *the game*, that's how you play it.
There's a lot more to be said, but I'll say one more thing - despite it being said before: Progression really feels real in Morrowind. Playing Oblivion or Skyrim I would only save the game out of habit - old habit, but I never REALLY needed to. So many crybabies have turned most modern games too doable. This isn't even a secret, games were harder in the olden days, but not only that it is harder - but when you get better, you REALLY get better. When you find good armor, that armor matters significantly. It takes time and effort to put together a real, decent armor.
Very few games have had me SO on edge, as Morrowind, when it comes to final phase of the game, approaching and exploring the Dagoth Ur area, which I held off untill the very end. Why did I hold it off? Well, because going there early on would be suicide.
Areas or levels equalling suicide would get too many teary sobbers on Reddit these days "This game is shit, I went there, and I died right away! WTF! I wanted to find the Sword of a Thousand Truths, and they just killed me!"
Oh, and get this - there are unique treasures in caves and dungeons in Morrowind - with NO indication of them being there. NO quest sending you there, NO hint. LOL!!!
And Ragemage, you're an amateur Morrowinder compared to me, I've *replayed* that game 300 times! M-hm! But yes, one can't judge it by the first moments of it, because everything - *everything* is about progression. Someone who has only played the game for a couple of days will never know what it means to run like the wind for example.
A fully levelled Morrowind protagonist beats the shit out of all the Dragonbornes in the world, and YES once you get used to the combat mechanics, fighting in late game feels like a ballet of war. Sometimes I have cleared a room full of enemies in just one, single spiralling move
Gameplay isn't bad - at all - it's *different* and just a matter of getting used to. Look at FO1 and 2, compared to new FPS type games. Does FO2 have *bad* gameplay? Some would probably insist that it does, you point your gun AT someones eye, shoot their eye - with a gun - and withdraw 12 hit points from an opponent who keeps coming at you. What the fuck? But that's *the game*, that's how you play it.
There's a lot more to be said, but I'll say one more thing - despite it being said before: Progression really feels real in Morrowind. Playing Oblivion or Skyrim I would only save the game out of habit - old habit, but I never REALLY needed to. So many crybabies have turned most modern games too doable. This isn't even a secret, games were harder in the olden days, but not only that it is harder - but when you get better, you REALLY get better. When you find good armor, that armor matters significantly. It takes time and effort to put together a real, decent armor.
Very few games have had me SO on edge, as Morrowind, when it comes to final phase of the game, approaching and exploring the Dagoth Ur area, which I held off untill the very end. Why did I hold it off? Well, because going there early on would be suicide.
Areas or levels equalling suicide would get too many teary sobbers on Reddit these days "This game is shit, I went there, and I died right away! WTF! I wanted to find the Sword of a Thousand Truths, and they just killed me!"
Oh, and get this - there are unique treasures in caves and dungeons in Morrowind - with NO indication of them being there. NO quest sending you there, NO hint. LOL!!!
Arena and Daggerfall already used these dice roll system and also in First Person, and people never complained. Hell, people never complained much about the Morrowind combat as it is until many years after the game was released, because players changed. Morrowind "flaws" are only increasing because games technology and players mindset are always changing over the years. Does that means that to make a good game today you have to think what players will be like in 10 years from now, or just make the games you know players like today?
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