Will Fallout 3 be remembered?
- Thread starter Tagaziel
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That's not relevant to this discussion.Public said:
Anyway, the question is whether the Witcher will overshadow FO3. I don't think they are similar enough for that to happen. They both fall under the broad umbrella of "RPG", but they do different things.
I’m perhaps most impressed by the sort of web traffic that it is receiving. If you have a more complex analysis, then I’d be happy to hear it. And before you start typing, make sure it isn’t just some variant of “I don’t like FO3.”Patton89 said:
Don’t do that. It’s bush league.Patton89 said:
I certainly never claimed that Fallout 3 is a better RPG than anything else. We were talking about similar games, and I pointed out that the Witcher isn’t very similar. It’s not like the comparison of Quake 2 and Half-Life. If you really think it is, then I understand why you don’t think FO3 will be remembered. You probably don’t have any idea as to why people like FO3.Patton89 said:
And I do think FO3 has competition (for the hearts and minds), but it primarily comes from Oblivion, and to a lesser extent Fable 2.
From my perspective, that’s an incredibly strange thing to write. This might be part of the disconnect that I’m having here. In the U.S., the most remembered games are mostly console games, and they sold a ton of units. Games like Final Fantasy VII and Pokemon are more remembered than Fallout 1&2, and it isn’t even a close comparison.Commiered said:
You would have a good point if a Harry Potter game ran off with a bunch of GotY awards, and got the most traffic on general gaming sites two months after release. But it didn’t, so you don’t.Commiered said:
To restate it again, I’m not just talking about sales. I’m not just talking about critical reception. I’m not claiming to possess magical powers of precognition. I’m looking at a few measures of popularity and short-term staying power, and then I’m making a judgment about the future. If you have any measures that suggest a different conclusion, then I’d be happy to discuss them. But if you want to be a solipsist about all of this, then there’s no reason to click on the topic in the first place.
The Chosen Juan
First time out of the vault
Back in 1997 when the first Fallout game was released, the game didn't get any attention from the mainstream press. However, there WAS a game project that the press couldn't get enough of back in that era, and that was Daikatana.
If the endless press coverage wasn't enough there were the nonstop Penny Arcade comics hyping John Romero and that piece of trash. Like this one:
Shocking Revelation! (Date 4-24-2000)
Nowadays, Daikatana is remembered just as a punchline to a joke, nothing more(so is Mr. Romero for that matter)
Fallout 3 has been recently released and guess who was helping in the promoting? Penny Arcade of course!
http://fallout.bethsoft.com/eng/vault/pennyarcade.html
If it wasn't for the Fallout name this game would've sank beneath the waves like Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel did.
EDIT: Grammar
If the endless press coverage wasn't enough there were the nonstop Penny Arcade comics hyping John Romero and that piece of trash. Like this one:
Shocking Revelation! (Date 4-24-2000)
Nowadays, Daikatana is remembered just as a punchline to a joke, nothing more(so is Mr. Romero for that matter)
Fallout 3 has been recently released and guess who was helping in the promoting? Penny Arcade of course!
http://fallout.bethsoft.com/eng/vault/pennyarcade.html
If it wasn't for the Fallout name this game would've sank beneath the waves like Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel did.
EDIT: Grammar
Dionysus said:
Fallout 3 is a FPS with RPG elements (a Hybrid like Deus Ex, Bioshock, etc). The Witcher is RPG/Action RPG (more like Fallout 1 & 2, Planescape:Torment, Baldurs Gate, etc).
They are both different genders and you cannot argue with that.
Humans cannot be truly objective, we are not machines. We are always effected by our own experinces, personalities and likings.
So do not ask impossible things, things that you do not yourself posses, nor can ever posses.
I have already posted example that short term popularity and holding power does not mean that game will be remembered in the long run. There are countless games that have failed to be remembered ,even when they had short term popularity and short term holding power. It is rather bad base to claim that a game will be well remembered.
You have to take into account other things,if you want to start guessing! if the game will be remembered, things that i have listed many times already. Is the game unique or personal, did it start something, did it outsell everything in its own time (pokemon FFVII),its quality when compared to other games of the same genre and did it do what it tried to do very well.
You said that big title games after 1987 are very similar to previous games. That is pretty much claming that games after that are not unique or different, and that is not "objective"
Look at FP wolfenstein 3D, was it very similar to FP dungeon crawlers before it ? Is Brothers in arms very similar to wolfenstein 3D ?
Oh, and i know why SOME people want to play bethesdas games, its the "freedom" But, problem is, it is meaningless freedom, there are almost no consequences. Badly done "freedom".
So do not ask impossible things, things that you do not yourself posses, nor can ever posses.
I have already posted example that short term popularity and holding power does not mean that game will be remembered in the long run. There are countless games that have failed to be remembered ,even when they had short term popularity and short term holding power. It is rather bad base to claim that a game will be well remembered.
You have to take into account other things,if you want to start guessing! if the game will be remembered, things that i have listed many times already. Is the game unique or personal, did it start something, did it outsell everything in its own time (pokemon FFVII),its quality when compared to other games of the same genre and did it do what it tried to do very well.
You said that big title games after 1987 are very similar to previous games. That is pretty much claming that games after that are not unique or different, and that is not "objective"
Look at FP wolfenstein 3D, was it very similar to FP dungeon crawlers before it ? Is Brothers in arms very similar to wolfenstein 3D ?
Oh, and i know why SOME people want to play bethesdas games, its the "freedom" But, problem is, it is meaningless freedom, there are almost no consequences. Badly done "freedom".
I was jokingly pointing out that you can say the same sort of thing about The Witcher as Deus Ex or FO3. The Witcher is combat obsessed, and that combat is played in the form of rhythm game. It's like DDR meets Diablo.Public said:
Yes, you posted one example (Quake 2), and I disputed the notion that it has been forgotten (we certainly both remember it), and explained why FO3 is in a much different situation (there are fewer open-world ARPGs on the market). And the real problem is that you don't have any reason to think that FO3 will be forgotten in the face of the evidence that it won't be forgotten. It is possible that FO3 will be overshadowed by FO4 (much like Quake 2 was overshadowed by Quake 3 among other titles), but it seems more like the Morrowind of the FO series right now. It has introduced the classic franchise to a much bigger fanbase, and it has been met with praise despite some outcry from the original PC fanbase. It probably won't be as big as Morrowind, because of its timing in the 360's life cycle and its release on the heels of Oblivion, but it definitely isn't in a situation similar to Quake 2.Patton89 said:
No, that isn't "pretty much" what I was claiming. I specifically said that the really big titles were similar to preexisting games. The preexisting games could have been created after 1987. To use your own example, Doom is more remembered than Wolfenstein. Resident Evil is more remembered than Alone in the Dark. Star Control 2 is more remembered than Starflight. Halo is more remembered than Marathon. The first iteration frequently gets buried under the popularity of a title that comes along and does the same thing better or simply reaches a bigger audience.Patton89 said:
Your definition of "badly done" freedom is precisely what characterizes a sandbox game. And sandbox games are actually pretty popular. And yes, people do remember them.Patton89 said:
I guess we can keep arguing about this untill the sun turnsinto a red giant. Oh, well more posts for me
Explain to me why would people remember fallout 3 ?
Its not the superior sales. Its not the short term popularity, that doesnt guarantee anything. WHY would people remember it ?
You still fail to awnser this properly.
And two people on a GAME forum doesnt equal "proper" remembering, and hardly disputes it.
On basis of your assumption, i could claim that a game called boiling point:road to hell is well remembered, because couple of people remember it.
Sorry, i made a typo. I managed to loose the original post i was going to make when i got logged out while writing it. I didnt have time to proof read it even once.
Many games have survived, and are still remembered, even when newer games have emerged.
And, might i add, simply reaching bigger audience doesnt guarantee or mean that a previous game will be forgotten, escpecially if the previous game is does it "better"
Again, there are many big titles that are not very similar, and i put wight on the word VERY. Some similarities might exist, but you cannot claim that MOST titles are VERY similar. Is max payne VERY similar to other, pre-existing games ? I wouldnt say so.
Problem is fallout 3 is supposed to be a RPG/ARPG. That is why NORMAL sandbox type of "freedom", in this case, is badly implemented and done "freedom" IT is not supposed to be GTA.
Explain to me why would people remember fallout 3 ?
Its not the superior sales. Its not the short term popularity, that doesnt guarantee anything. WHY would people remember it ?
You still fail to awnser this properly.
And two people on a GAME forum doesnt equal "proper" remembering, and hardly disputes it.
On basis of your assumption, i could claim that a game called boiling point:road to hell is well remembered, because couple of people remember it.
Sorry, i made a typo. I managed to loose the original post i was going to make when i got logged out while writing it. I didnt have time to proof read it even once.
Many games have survived, and are still remembered, even when newer games have emerged.
And, might i add, simply reaching bigger audience doesnt guarantee or mean that a previous game will be forgotten, escpecially if the previous game is does it "better"
Again, there are many big titles that are not very similar, and i put wight on the word VERY. Some similarities might exist, but you cannot claim that MOST titles are VERY similar. Is max payne VERY similar to other, pre-existing games ? I wouldnt say so.
Problem is fallout 3 is supposed to be a RPG/ARPG. That is why NORMAL sandbox type of "freedom", in this case, is badly implemented and done "freedom" IT is not supposed to be GTA.
It's kind of rediculous to argue this at all. First off, there's no real right or wrong, because it's all speculative. Then there's the whole matter of defining remembered. I remember my 11th birthday party, does that mean it's "remembered". Or does it have to last like September 11th, a tragedy that will surely be remembered by millions for at least the next 50 years.
The OP doesn't really specify, so anything might qualify.
It could be, will people bring up Fallout 3 in "What we were playing in 2008" look-backs?
It could be, will people use Fallout 3 in "Dude, Daggerfall already did that in 1996"-type sentences?
It could be, will there be sites (fan or otherwise) with active play and modding discussion sub-forums for Fallout 3?
It could be, will it be making any sort of "Best of" lists?
It could be, will people bring up Fallout 3 in "What we were playing in 2008" look-backs?
It could be, will people use Fallout 3 in "Dude, Daggerfall already did that in 1996"-type sentences?
It could be, will there be sites (fan or otherwise) with active play and modding discussion sub-forums for Fallout 3?
It could be, will it be making any sort of "Best of" lists?
Killswitch
First time out of the vault
I think it will be remembered, but it's not going to be remembered for the right reasons. Sales, and the mere hype the game got is enough to make it last at lest a few years. But the real fans of the fallout series won't remember it positively, it will be more of a dark shadow over the legacy of the series.
That's how I see it anyways.
That's how I see it anyways.
Patton89 said:
Funny that you mention Boiling Point. Despite it's horrible AI and numerous shortcomings,I still think it's a lot better as a FPS with RPG elements than Fallout 3. In fact the nature of the game is very similar to Fallout 3 and yet it was NEVER marketed as a RPG, though it's almost the same thing in execution. Also love being able to be on the communist side
Shit, I still have it on my hard drive. Damn I wish the developers spent another year on it.Dionysus said:
Ok buddy, how about Operation Flashpoint. Won many GOTY awards, best in category etc. bast simulation etc. Shipped 1 million units 'only'. YET is is still remembered, still going VERY strong with numerous fan sites updating it even as they forget the sequel! So if your definition is net traffic and GOTY etc awards. then Operation Flashpoint has it in spades, for a game released in 2001.
I seriously DOUBT that your beloved Fallout 3 will be anything but a sour footnote to the Fallout franchise in 7 years time.
How about you don't double post.
Yeah, I'm sort of going with the dictionary definition. Technically, Big Rigs, Zero Wing, and Daikatana are well remembered, even by those that never played the games.Per said:
I suspect that you will see FO3 on various "best of" lists in the future. I do know that Morrowind and/or Oblivion tend to show up on those lists, so I would be surprised not to see FO3. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if FO3 is still hanging around when FO1&2 are gone. A lot of those lists fail to properly recognize games that are ~20 years old.
What? Now I can't tell if you are disagreeing with me or agreeing with me. FO3 has been getting GotY awards (and other critical praise) and it already has a decent mod scene. Judging from Beth's other mod-friendly games, the following for FO3 will be around for a while. Morrowind was released in 2002, and it still has active modders. There's even an ambitious project from some people that are trying to replicate Morrowind using Oblivion's engine.Commiered said:
I voted Rather not. Although that's my personal desire and not my expectation.
Timing is what determines what is remember and what is forgotten.
Was it your first bite at the apple? If so then you'll use Fallout 3 as the baseline to judge all similar games. What can make this really interesting is what they judge as similar.
RPG, ARPG, Sandbox or something else entirely? What is Fallout 3 to you?
Earlier in the thread there was a mention of a generation gap and how that affected things. The console market in part depends on that gap to increase sales... how many times can they release a 'new' Mario?
The thing is that it's not just how old you are but what you have experienced up to that point. I look at Fallout 3 and compare it to "Deus Ex", "Fallout 1" & "GTA 3: Vice City" and see it failing in all regards. The mainstream market hasn't played all 3 titles and so regards as Fallout 3 as succeeding in at least one aspect.
Will it be remembered? That depends on if something new comes along or if they are exposed to the older titles & manage to look beyond the limits of that day.
Here's a few things to test what you remember.
Zork
River Run
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983
Timing is what determines what is remember and what is forgotten.
Was it your first bite at the apple? If so then you'll use Fallout 3 as the baseline to judge all similar games. What can make this really interesting is what they judge as similar.
RPG, ARPG, Sandbox or something else entirely? What is Fallout 3 to you?
Earlier in the thread there was a mention of a generation gap and how that affected things. The console market in part depends on that gap to increase sales... how many times can they release a 'new' Mario?
The thing is that it's not just how old you are but what you have experienced up to that point. I look at Fallout 3 and compare it to "Deus Ex", "Fallout 1" & "GTA 3: Vice City" and see it failing in all regards. The mainstream market hasn't played all 3 titles and so regards as Fallout 3 as succeeding in at least one aspect.Will it be remembered? That depends on if something new comes along or if they are exposed to the older titles & manage to look beyond the limits of that day.
Here's a few things to test what you remember.
Zork
River Run
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983