Women in the Military

[welsh]

Recently in the news there have been reports that there has been an increase in rapes among coalition forces in Iraq, and that the US Air Force Academy was not doing what it should to stop the rise in the number of rapes at that Academy.

There are many arguments here, including-
Some people have been arguing that women don't belong in the army because it will undermine their effectiveness. Others argue that it's a denial of equality to keep women from the military and that women are as effective killers as men. There is even an argument that women in the military will make war less attractive.

What do you think?

 

[Matt Helm]

As a former US Marine (1975-80), I see nothing wrong with women filling any role in combat except infantry. My reasons are basically selfish, if I am wounded I have a better chance of being carried out of a combat zone by a man because of the average higher strength of a man.

 

[Gwydion]

I voted for the 'only if its a movie and if their hot' option, although I think it's reasonable to allow women into the military if they can meet the physical requirements. It's ludicrous to have lower standards for some soldiers for no other reason than to allow them in when they couldn't get in otherwise.

 

[Montez]

Voted equal rights, but I really have reservations about it for the reason you mentioned welsh (ie, not only the chance of being raped by the enemy, but by their own allies). I won't go into that any further since it really gets me into a rage, but if women want to be in the armed forces and understand what they are potentially getting themselves into (just as men should) they shouldn't be denied equal treatment.

 

[SkynetV4]

I didn't vote since I there wasn't a "Hell yes, women have a faster healing rate and withstand pain better than men" option. I don't remember where I read that women healed faster than men because women are the bearer of children. Because of their periods, women have a more frequent regeneration of their bodies. Women's physique, adequated for birth, withstand pain better than men. I can't explain it more scientifically since I am no doctor.

 

[OnTheBounce]

I voted that it's a matter of equal rights, but I'd like to add a qualifier: females should not be held to lower physical fitness standards than males are. The military is not an equal opportunity employer and shouldn't be for any reason. In combat it's getting the job done that counts. End of story.

I mention this because current US military policy is so skewed when it comes to physical fitness differences between males and females that it's ludicrous. When I got out of the Army back in '96 a 17-21 year old female had to complete a whopping 18 push-ups in two minutes for a minimum passing score, whereas her male counterpart had to complete 42. The 2-mile run times were also ludicrously skewed. This needs attention, although I would suggest that the military come up w/obstacle courses to test physical fitness that allow soldiers to use whatever methods they can to overcome them. This way females' (generally) lesser upper body strength isn't counted against them. If something needs to be carried, it doesn't matter how you do it, just that it gets done.

I don't think rape should be factored into the equation. There's a counter-balance on the part of males that most folks don't like to talk about and that's forcible sodomy. It happens, yet we don't label male soldiers "at risk" of what is usually mis-called "rape". That's a sexist attitude and smacks of Victorianism. That is something we can do without.

At any rate, that's my $0.02.

OTB

 

[megatron]

I don't think they should be in the infantry. I'm more or less anti-equal rights as most people aren't equal anyway and at the moment equal rights seems to consist of giving minoritys more ease because they're 'equal'? Like the government employing more female fire-fighters and lowering the standards because the figures don't match, or most bosses that do public service seem to be women or gay or something.

Women should be able to go into the infantry, but at the moment it'd be for the wrong reasons. And though I think everyone is and could be equal, people are also different. You'd have to think about mixed squads and effect on soldiers (sexism, men helping out women more than men and stuff?) Rape shouldn't really be an issue if there were enough women soldiers. And men can get raped too, but it hasn't seemed much of an issue so far?

kthnxbye

 

[Katja]

As being one of the extremely few women on this board, I'll post my opinion.

Women should be able to join the military IF they meet the physical requirements. Not many women do - and that's their problem. Just as if a man was turned down because he doesn't meet the physical standards.

It's like female firefighters - a few women in my area were publically complaining that there are not enough women in the profession. But that's because they don't meet the physical standards for the job, it's not that anyone was trying to "hold us back". They could only say that if women tried out, passed the tests, and then were still denied.

I'm all for equal rights - but I dont think it would be an "equal rights" issue as it is a fitness issue.

 

[Sander]

I agree with Katja here, women should be able to join the military, it's an individual question if they meet the standards(The same standards set out for men)> If they do, there is no reason that woman would function any worse than a man in combat.

This, obviously, raises the homosexuality question. WHy should gays be allowed(Equal rights) and why not(Awkward situations). Personally, I would say that sexuality wouldn't matter. THings might get a bit awkward, and they may very well not. It's a matter of self-control, I guess, if people can control their feelings on service(WHich shouldn't be a problem, I see no reason why a homosexual wouldn't be able not to have a relationship with someone in the service, and if they do, I"m very sure that there are also straight relationships within the service, so it shouldn't even matter.)

 

[megatron]

I don't really think sexuality has anything to do with it? It's like bringing up the soldiers religeon or political opinions-it shouldn't matter. The soldiers body should though? Like you wouldn't let some disabled people in the army or special-needs, though I'm sure they probably will in a decade or two.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Serving in the military is the matter of efficiency and capability, and not gender. Therefore, if a woman meets the requirements of the job, I don't see why she should be declined military service. What I am opposed to is stupid belief that only way to achieve equality of genders is to have equal number of men and women in all positions - in politics, in schools, in the army... That's nonsense. Men traditionally lean towards some jobs, while women are inclined to others. Many people complain that in my school women are discriminated because there are so few of them, instead of accepting the fact that there will never be as many women interested in engineering as there are men, just as there will never be as many female army recruits as there are male army recruits. Differences between female and male character determine their plans and desires, and attempting to force women to be more like men and men to be more like women can be just as wrong as discrimination.

In short, prevention of discrimination must be ensured at all times and in all places, including the military, but there is no point denying differences between women and men. We are all equal in our rights, but that's just about everything we are equal at.

 

[megatron]

hye we all agree on something! CHEESE AND WINE ALL ROUND!

 

[Ugly John]

Same as Katja here, meet the requirement, not the adjusted requirement.
so
i voted in the movies only if she's hot and does a nude scene.

 

[welsh]

I didn't vote since I there wasn't a "Hell yes, women have a faster healing rate and withstand pain better than men" option. I don't remember where I read that women healed faster than men because women are the bearer of children. Because of their periods, women have a more frequent regeneration of their bodies. Women's physique, adequated for birth, withstand pain better than men. I can't explain it more scientifically since I am no doctor.

OK, I added that in.

 

[megatron]

meh I know plenty of women I could beat up, unless you want a bunch of pregnant women in the army who have regenerative limbs and beards and stuff, just go to a bar and get some fat drunk guys?

 

[Sander]

meh I know plenty of women I could beat up

....

So? I also know plenty of men I could beat up, I know that there are also women who can beat me up, and you as well. This has nothing to do with sex, but rather with how the body is trained, and how much is done with it.

unless you want a bunch of pregnant women in the army who have regenerative limbs and beards and stuff,

Que???

 

[megatron]

....

So? I also know plenty of men I could beat up, I know that there are also women who can beat me up, and you as well. This has nothing to do with sex, but rather with how the body is trained, and how much is done with it.

My point was most women don't bother with excercise and stuff anyway? bizarro

Que???

bonjuwa!
I don't see how being able to split open your genitals requires an amazing pain barrier, I do it all the time.

 

[Odin]

You know the strange thing about women in the military is that studies and actual events have show that MEN can't cope with women in the military.. As in cope I mean they break down when they see a woman being shot/die, but they don't break down as much/easy when a man is shot/die..

Women had no problems seeing men getting shot/die, but the men had...

Go figure!


edit: this only shows that women have a much stronger phsycological strength then men..

 

[Brother None]

edit: this only shows that women have a much stronger phsycological strength then men..

Aye, or it proves we're stupid saps that care too much about women, while the women are just evil creatures using us for our plans, and none of them care a whit for a man's life.

Just a matter of nuance

- DANGER, ALIEN PROBE INSERTED

 

[Montez]

edit: this only shows that women have a much stronger phsycological strength then men..

Or that they're just cold, heartless harpies....