Zelda Skyward Sword

[UncannyGarlic]

I don't see how actualy having a dynamic world is any tedious, sure the reseting of collectible items was kind of annoying, MM is far from perfect, but I rarely found it tedious.

A dynamic world is good but the window for some of the events was so ridiculously small that you needed a game guide to reasonably find some of them. Granted, these were all optional side content but it's still bad design. More importantly there were series of said events that had to be performed in order to get access to later events, which exacerbated the problem and where the tedium began. If you missed or, more likely, failed one of the parts then you had to start a reasonably long (real time wise) sequence all over. One puzzle pops in my mind that I remember failing once and having to play another 10-20 minutes to try again (the puzzle wasn't hard, it was just annoyingly timed). I'm not saying that it was a horrible game, just that a lot of the time-specific side content was work rather than fun. The concept of replaying the same time period over and over was a good one, I just think that they did no better than an average job executing it.

That and it seemed like a fan service rehash of Ocarina. To me they seemed to cowardly backtrack and play it safe because some people didn't like it Wind Waker as much (I liked Wind Waker and its visual style and stronger use of color, I think artist style in more important than trying to look realistic, especially on a weaker system like the Wii or Gamecube, Twilight Princess, just gloomy and drab).

Wind Waker had bad character design for the humans but was otherwise generally fine, if geared toward a younger audience. That said, I prefer Twilight Princess's style but Skyward Sword appears to have an equally viable yet more unique style. I like that it's more like a Link to the Past.

 

[Serge 13]

According to the reviews the new Hyrule is now a big dungeon itself. Good, now I am not even interested in trying this game out.

 

[Verd1234]

According to the reviews the new Hyrule is now a big dungeon itself. Good, now I am not even interested in trying this game out.

Why not?

 

[UncannyGarlic]

According to the reviews the new Hyrule is now a big dungeon itself. Good, now I am not even interested in trying this game out.

Do you have a link? I can see that going either way but I'm all for making the world interesting. Being able to teleport in Ocarina of Time was nice as it was fairly boring to run through some of the areas after clearing them.

 

[Ben]

6 Days, I will let you know

 

[Serge 13]

Why not?

More dungeons means less towns and less people to interact with. This isn't really anything bad if you played the Zelda games only because of the puzzle solvings and such. Apparently the game has the best dungeons ever made in a Zelda game.

According to the reviews the new Hyrule is now a big dungeon itself. Good, now I am not even interested in trying this game out.

Do you have a link? I can see that going either way but I'm all for making the world interesting. Being able to teleport in Ocarina of Time was nice as it was fairly boring to run through some of the areas after clearing them.

Yup, check out the full video review here.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Yup, check out the full video review here.

@Serge 13: Thanks. The Game Trailers review left me unclear about a lot of things including the over world so I read some other reviews. It sounds like there isn't a traditional overworld, it's more like a concise version of Wind Waker for the overworld with the surface world being more like a preamble to the temple that you're trying to get to.

A summary of what I've read.

• Oh joy, we're stuck with the Wiimote again but at least it sounds like it finally works well. Not only does it sound like it works well but it sounds like it makes combat more interesting.
  
  Games Radar had to recalibrate their Wiimote fairly frequently, which fortunately only takes about a second but was still slightly annoying.
  
  It sounds like it's still in need of difficulty settings, Giant Bomb mentioned that it's challenging but never hard and that he only died a couple of times.
  
  Crafting sounds like the usual crafting, a boring grind fest. I'm not sure what genius decided that that needed to be in Zelda.
  
  The puzzles and dungeons sound good, GameTrailers said that the early ones were uninspired (which I believe) and Giant Bomb said that there were no "bad" ones, particularly enjoying the innovating ideas.
  
  The first few hours are a railroaded bore.
  
  Skyloft is described as a hub that is used to access the different dungeons and is described as a smaller version Wind Waker's ocean. The surface world is described as "A giant series of smaller outdoor dungeons. Navigating through each new area to find the temple takes just as long – if not longer – than completing the temple itself, and the road is paved with a similar type of exploration and puzzles you'd expect from a temple, if slightly more spread out." Games Radar
  
  The temples are smaller and avoid getting tiring/boring.
  
  Not being able to warp sounds obnoxious and having save points is facepalm worthy.
  
  Mini-games sound like they were mostly cut.
  
  

  All that I said, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the "Silent Realms," which feel like a throwback to the much reviled stealth puzzles in Phantom Hourglass. The Silent Realms are nothing more than timed collect-a-thons where even one mistake can wipe out five or ten minutes worth of progress. Put against the more organic nature of the dungeons, the Silent Realms stand out like a sore thumb.

  Source: GamePro
  
  The harp sucks, it sounds like it's choose a song then wave the Wiimote like the days of old.
  
  I'm confused as to how it's plot has anything to do with OoT's and given that it never really mattered before, I'm not sure why they decided to make this one an official prequel.

Sources:
Game Trailers
Games Radar
GamePro
Giant Bomb

The consensus seems to be that it's up there with Wind Waker for contention of the best 3D Zelda, which is good to hear. I'm actually quite interested in playing it given the amount of praise the dungeons and puzzles have received, multiple reviewers said that it had their favorite dungeon in the Zelda series.

 

[Serge 13]

So gamespot gave this game a 7.5 instead 9.5 or something?!

Respect +

 

[Verd1234]

Yeah but the main reason Gamespot did that was because of the controls...

In the original review ( now this part has been redacted but they kept the score and the rest of the review the same for some reason), it said that the controls were broken because the Wiimote could not interact with the infrared sensor properly...

However, the game does not even USE the infrared sensor. There is no pointing in the game. All menus are navigated by changing the position of the Wii remote which is registered through Wii motion plus...

Thus, the reviewer basically went through the game playing it wrong.... the items do this as well so I guess that's why he was having so much trouble....he must have relied on the infrared sensor that isn't used in the game and did not calibrate the Wii motion plus at all...

 

[Ben]

So gamespot gave this game a 7.5 instead 9.5 or something?!

Respect +

Their main complaint was the controls, I will get back to you on that.

But to say it is repetitive (and downgrade for it) while giving Call of Duty straight 9+s across the board is bullshit

 

[UncannyGarlic]

he must have relied on the infrared sensor that isn't used in the game and did not calibrate the Wii motion plus at all...

Actually he said that he was constantly recalibrating it but I'd bet that thinking that it relied on the infrared sensor exacerbated his problem with the controls.

What I found most interesting about the Gamespot review was that he seemed to like some of the things that others didn't, specifically the crafting system and "the Silent Realm". He also felt that the new "helpful" companion was actually helpful, while at least Giant Bomb said the exact opposite. I'd expect it to be as helpful as Navi and Midna were.

Also he had issue with the repetition, noting that you have to go through the three overworld areas three times each, fight two of the bosses three times each, and go through the pattern of fetch quest, dungeon, fetch quest, dungeon with interspersed Silent Realms a tiring number of times.

Like other reviewers he liked that Skyward Sword abandoned the "habit of introducing a new item in each dungeon that you would subsequently use to solve most of the puzzles and defeat the boss." You have to use various items in various ways to solve puzzles throughout the whole game.

He starts by complaining about how stupid the combat is, saying that the controls were too imprecise to wait and hit their weak points and instead you could parry then wiggle them to death. He later says that boss fights that use the sword heavily are a lot of fun due to the motion controls, even if they aren't perfect, and the "rush" of chipping away at an enemy's health.

The boss fights were fun for him, many being puzzles that you had to figure out which tool worked best in.

EDIT: Also note that he gave it the lowest score he could that would still make it a positive review on metacritic.

 

[Ben]

So I played it for about 7 hours yesterday, here is what I think so far


The Story is good, you get seperated from Zelda about 2 hours in and you're left pursuing her. I say pursuing because unlike previous Zelda games where she is like Olive Oyl, Zelda is traveling around the Surface to fufill her destiny as well.

The Combat system is fun, and the result is that most enemies are their own puzzle. For example, when fighting (hanging) Skulltulas, before you get the Beetle, you have to do a horizontal slash so they sway and spin, then stab at their weak point. The first "Boss" is similar to the original Iron Knuckle in his style. He will follow your sword with his right arm, you have to fake him out by rotating the sword down and then quickly doing a horizontal slash.

The flying is interesting in the sense that it is like Wind Waker's ocean plus elevation. You will drop off above the Islands and use Zelda's Sailcloth which is essentially a skydiver's parachute. The problem is that after the 'Loftwing Race' at the beginning, there doesn't seem to be much use for all the fancy flying. When simply traveling, you swing the wiimote to get elevation then you can dive by tilting it downward (like a helicopter gains speed).

The Crafting is actually incredibly useful. For example, I have 2 shields, a wooden and a metal one. These shields take damage when you hide behind them (but not when you shield bash or parry). My wooden shield is the least durable but I have improved it once through crafting. The metal shield is stronger but will make getting electrocuted much worse. This makes it advantageous to keep an improved wooden shield on hand.

I havent re calibrated the wiimote once. The reason that the motion seems jacked up is as follows. When you open a menu, which ever direction you have the wiimote pointed is now the center of the screen. So if you have it pointed to the side, you have to keep it to the side or exit and reenter the menu when the remote is centered. This goes double for 'Dowsing' because wherever the remote is, that will become the default location for the sword when you douse.

Speaking of Dowsing, Fi can essentially smell for things (mainly Zelda) and point you in the direction of your objective. This is a nice feature that keeps you from wandering.

Fi is a pretty funny character. She talks like Mr Spock. What I mean is that when she initially introduces herself she says things like "To allieveate your apprehension, I will inform you that the honorable Zelda is alive. Ah, I see that you require no further persuasion". Or "Ah, Oral tradition, only 35% as effective at passing information".

Far as the boss fights and twiching the wiimote. I can see where the complaints came from but I do not agree. When I deflected the Stalfos Knight's twin swords, I literally exclaimed "DIE SHITBAG!" and swung the wiimote violently. It was a rush, even though I learned not to play sitting down as I smacked my hand on the leg of a table in the process.

Criticism is that the Skyview Temple (1st one) seemed short but more dense. What I mean is that every room has 1 or more puzzles but the actual area of the temple is probably smaller than the Deku Tree from Ocarina.

I haven't said much about the story but as you play it, you will be going "Oh so thats the origin of that". For example, Link's outfit is the uniform for the Skyloft Knights.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents. The biggest problem I see is that the game might be too short

 

[Serge 13]

Damn, what's with all the people saying this game is awesome!, 10/10, best zelda ever etc. ?!

Doesn't seem to be anything different than other zelda games with exception of the over world now being a series of interconnected dungeons.

 

[rcorporon]

I'm nearly at the end of SS and must say that I've enjoyed it so far.

I hate the "upgrade" and broken shield stuff but overall I liked it. Even the motion controls.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Damn, what's with all the people saying this game is awesome!, 10/10, best zelda ever etc. ?!

Doesn't seem to be anything different than other zelda games with exception of the over world now being a series of interconnected dungeons.

Zelda is one of those game series with fans who seem to have willingly given up any ability of rational critical evaluation when it comes to the series. Much like FFVII etc.

Zelda games sure were a big deal back in the day, when they were one of the founding NES series etc., but IMO there's much better games around nowadays. I personally prefer the Ys series.

 

[rcorporon]

Zelda is one of those game series with fans who seem to have willingly given up any ability of rational critical evaluation when it comes to the series. Much like FFVII etc.

Zelda games sure were a big deal back in the day, when they were one of the founding NES series etc., but IMO there's much better games around nowadays. I personally prefer the Ys series.

I think that is is true for most of the people who were introduced to the series with OoT. I remember getting the first game (gold cart!) on the NES back in the day.

IMO the series was at its peak with Link to the Past. The games since then have been good, but LttP was the best IMO.

But I don't think that there is a series that can do a "Zelda style" better than Zelda.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I think that is is true for most of the people who were introduced to the series with OoT. I remember getting the first game (gold cart!) on the NES back in the day.

I'd say that it has more to do with people who are fans of OoT being far to accepting of the games not having evolved much since. Skyward Sword sounds like it has finally moved combat forward, even if it is still pretty basic, but most of the gameplay is pretty much copy-pasted. All in all, the games tend to have pretty simplistic controls and actions.

IMO the series was at its peak with Link to the Past. The games since then have been good, but LttP was the best IMO.

Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time are really radically different types of games due to the transition from 2D to 3D. Ocarina of Time is better than Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask, I haven't gotten around to playing the other two 3D Zelda games quite yet, which is a bit sad. The reasons that it's better are mainly the puzzles/dungeon designs (Twilight Princess was a big letdown) and less tedium (the Groundhog Day thing with Majora's Mask which, if I remember right, required you to reset time to save). I've heard that Sailing in Wind Waker is painfully slow so I'm looking to Skyward Sword to be the least flawed.

But I don't think that there is a series that can do a "Zelda style" better than Zelda.

I think that if the Batman: Arkham games had more environmental puzzles (the Riddler Trophies in Arkham City seem to bet the closest) then they could cover what Zelda does and more. My brother pointed out to me that they both have: melee combat, they both have gadgets, bosses which are puzzle based, hidden challenges in the overworld and dungeons, dungeons which you move to as you get new gadgets/story points to gain access, and maybe a couple other similarities. I'd say that the main difference is that Zelda has more of a puzzle/combat based backbone while Batman is more stealth/combat based.

Also I'd say that third-person action-adventure games generally do a better job differentiating themselves from each other than first-person shooters and third-person hack-n-slashes.

 

[Walpknut]

Well I think I was a little too negative about Skyward Sword, (but only a little). Maybe it was just Twilight princess, Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass leaving a vomit taste in my mouth, anyway.

It actually looks like it is trying to expand itself, the idea of the upgrades to weapons and shields was nice, if kind of badly performed, the inventory system actually looks good and there is a reason to collect rupees. The graphics looke very good, I like Zelda being cartoonish, it was colorfull (a welcome improvement over the ugly looks of TP).

The story is Typical Zelda, this time tryign to stablish some continuity, but at least it wasn't stupid like TP's story.

There are more side quests and collectables.

Now the ugly things I saw:
Combat actually looks slower in this, enemies walk up to you while blocking and not attacking until they are just right in your nose, there is no camara control to speak of, it has the same camera control as the N64 games.....

The flying bits are boring, drawn out and you have to be doing them all the time because everything is confined to a few floating islands, the idea was cool, but a way of skipping those segments woudl have been a good idea... It is just barely bet.... less awful than the Train in Spirit tracks.

But other than that it is a very solid game.

 

[Verd1234]

I think that if the Batman: Arkham games had more environmental puzzles (the Riddler Trophies in Arkham City seem to bet the closest) then they could cover what Zelda does and more. My brother pointed out to me that they both have: melee combat, they both have gadgets, bosses which are puzzle based, hidden challenges in the overworld and dungeons, dungeons which you move to as you get new gadgets/story points to gain access, and maybe a couple other similarities. I'd say that the main difference is that Zelda has more of a puzzle/combat based backbone while Batman is more stealth/combat based.

Actually, I think that the Batman Arkham games are more similar to Metroid rather than Zelda in terms of gameplay progression.... and the atmosphere is also more similar to Metroid...