A Potential Future for Super Mutants?

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by Einhanderc7, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    Hello everyone,
    I was discussing Super Mutants with some interested individuals and we uncovered what I think may be a way to not only save Super Mutants in the Bethesda titles, future Super Mutants, and tie them in with the Mariposa Super Mutants. How exciting! (At least I think so :grin:)

    While discussing the Fallout 2 statement Marcus makes about Super Mutant reproduction "It only takes a few years to get the juices flowing again". Which yes I am fully aware its intended to be a joke by Chris Avellone.
    However even though it's a joke why not consider the implications of such a result if added into a Bethesda title.

    While they could go the route of letting Super Mutants reproduce, however what we began to focus on was development such as puberty.

    After Super Mutants are converted they are essentially reverted back to a near sexless state with the diminished sexual traits inherent within a gendered species. In this case I found myself asking "What if Super Mutants began going through puberty?" I don't ask this because I want to see big green Super Mutant breasts, I ask this because the potential of such a result could potentially "fix" Bethesda's Super Mutant orcs.

    In this context assuming that such an event were even possible in a very hypothetical sense this could yield some interesting results. As we all likely know Some Super Mutants are created rather dim, or straight up insane according to Bethesda. However there are a few outliers that could potentially be used to leverage a change in Bethesda Super Mutants.

    For example Fawkes if we factor in Fallout 3, which is technically canon. In this case when Fawkes was initially created he was a blank slate, ignorant of his past. While he is indeed unique due to retaining "morality" (which is avery subjective concept) and intelligence; His isolation with the terminal allowed him to better himself. In this case while Fawkes wasn't dumber than a barrel of rocks, he was ignorant as a barrel of rocks.

    Another example is Strong from Fallout 4. Strong is a curious oddity as he is intelligent in a very remedial way, however Strong has been shown capable of learning within his limited means. While we all likely know that his pursuit of the "milk of human kindness" is a fruitless endeavor, it does show that as a Super Mutant Strong was capable of learning this information. Strong also even tries to come up with a "plan" to achieve his rather curious goal.

    So we have outlined 2 Bethesda Super Mutants that exist outside of the norm, what happens if Super Mutants eventually evolve or undergo puberty?
    In this context while we were discussing the topic, if such a result were to take place it could have interesting implications.

    In this case the "dumb" orcish Super Mutant populations could have the potential to actually mature in some manner. If we look back on Fallout 1 the Super Mutant called Harry was a fairly dim witted individual. In this case the Mariposa Super Mutants benefited from the Master as well many intelligent Super Mutants. The result of which less intelligent Super Mutants were guided by the others, preventing them from turning into what Bethesda had depicted.

    Yet if Super Mutants could mature or have reasonable role models I think its reasonable to eventually see these Super Orcs, turn into less belligerent potentially reasonable characters.

    What are your thoughts, do you think such a result would have a positive outcome for the franchise? Or do you consider such a theory as pointless to even postulate?
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  2. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    Beth super-mutants weren't even consistents within the same episode. Don't hurt yourself hoping they will in several episodes.
    In Fallout 3, most are dumb, but their leadership (overlord\Behemoth) is even dumber. Doesn't make any sense having a boss with a 1\10 of the IQ of their underlings. Then, the behemoths are supposed to be older than the smaller ones, which would mean that 1. They all eventually become behemoths. 2. That most oldies are out of the picture, despite the whole community having basically free reign for centuries before the BOS and Enclave come along. Then, that huge army of morons somehow manage to maintain gear, build trenches, establishes supply lines, and not completely deplete their food supply, despite having no leadership.

    If we talk about west coast super-mutants, those who are *almost* consistents. They would need to be needed in order to blend with society. The Super-mutants in Broken Hills were needed for mining uranium, and they were still facing racism. The BOS tries to exploit them in FOT, but they don't trust them. The NCR are seemingly open to Super-mutants, and there is a couple of super-mutants living in shady Sands. But that is just PR. That doesn't prevent some military to use trick to bait some Jacobstown super-mutants into attacking normies, so they could kill them without hurting NCR PR. I hoped that future Fallout titles would deal with their slow intregration, but no luck so far. We will see if Van Buren or Mutants Rising dwelve into that direction. (still have to try Ressurection and Fallout of Nevada)
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  3. Norzan

    Norzan A Smooth-Skin

    Apr 7, 2017
    Super Mutants now are pretty much the "dumb, big enemy" you see in a lot of RPGs, with next to no depth. Don't think Bethesda will ever make them anything more than that.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  4. TheHouseAlwaysWins

    TheHouseAlwaysWins It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 28, 2015
    Bethesda has written good super mutants you remember?

    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Is the dipping age a factor? What if it's only the younglings that can still go through puberty. Then it would be low rad count + young age = not a giant green waste of skin.
  6. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I think there are a lot a variables there to consider. Who knows for sure how it would work out.
    Maybe dipping age could be a factor, or maybe it could be rads absorbed over time.

    I could see it as this:
    Super mutants exposed to very little radiation would mature, and those that absorbed a great deal could turn into the behemoths Bethesda like's so much.
  7. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 8, 2012
    Is it possible that Fallout game could exists without Supermutants? While it is possible to exclude FEV in any FO games and it is still Fallout games.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  8. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    Mar 29, 2016
    Which kind of super mutants? those who supposed to be the next step of human evolution but failed because can't reproduce, or brainless orks from elder scroll with gun series?
  9. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Play Nevada. No FEV, no Supermutants, no centaurs and no floaters. Not even a mention.

    but you still have a short conversation with Dr. Moreau
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  10. Eshanas

    Eshanas Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 6, 2016
    Super Mutants are the Orcs of Fallout. That's their role.

    And damn do I hate it.

    The Super Mutants need to be like, the Varl of Banner Saga if we HAVE to include them. Make them all smart, intelligent, war and world-weary. Don't make them a hoo-hum enemy. They might even have a alliance with Humanity proper now. They might be building things so that they're not forgotten and a few might still have that adventurous fire that they utilize to protect humanity from repeating the great war or to nudge them to some sort of unity-dream.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  11. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    Mar 29, 2016
    Turn them into like orks in WoW won't change the fact they're still be treated as orks, not to mention Bethesda already turn BoS into knight in the waste in 3, the last thing we needed is another cartoonish heroic group.
    Fallout 2 and New Vegas already done them properly, they're just folks want to get along with other and living in peace, some of them do however suffer from mental condition (mostly nightkin) which cost them and folks they run across greatly.
    They don't need to be some kind of super hero that protect humanity, what they need to be now are just folks minding their own business and problems, like everyone in the waste.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  12. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    So, like Orcs in The Elder Scrolls series? :lmao:.

    I always thought it was ironic, Bethesda created a universe where Orcs are not the brute, violent, mindless, dumb smashers as seen in many other fantasy universes. But then grabs Fallout and turns Super Mutants into what Orcs are in other universes...

    This shows how the creativity and writing capabilities of Bethesda just degraded over time, and now we have this stupidity.

    Although, to be honest... I don't even think that it's the writers fault anymore... After reading Pete Hines describe what he aims at in games, and since Pete Hines is pretty much the big boss in Bethesda Game Studios... I have the feeling that he demands that the writers come up with stupid stuff like that, because that is what he said he wants in games in the past.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Slightly off topic, in many ways Fallout 3 (and 4) are pretty much continuations of FOBOS though in that game the BOS weren't the "Knights of the Wasteland" yet, the Initiate/main character was more or less.
    Super Mutants were basically Orks though there were still some smart ones that could organize and lead, and Ghouls in general were either zombies (especially Glowing Ones) or fanatic cultists.

    Like the others here already said, don't expect Super Mutants in Bethesda's Fallout ever to produce a group of faction that is like a West Coast Super Mutant group, one that is not out to conquer the wasteland and enslave or eat humans.
    I can't explain Leo but the two Super Mutants that were companions were probably thrown in because Bethesda's team thought that the player should have a Super Mutant on their side.

    And it does not even have that much impact. It is not as if Megaton or Diamond City's residents react when you come walking in with a Super Mutant, let alone deny you access and question your sanity of walking around with a man eating abomination.
  14. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    I'd rather see a new kind of human abomination. Trogs, swampfolk, vault 22 plant whatevers, ghost people, lobotomites and trauma harnesses, tunnelers; there have been quite a few.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  15. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    Well, all the example you mentioned are just critters to shoot. There isn't much possible arc about their integration within the rest of humanity.
  16. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    There could be for a few of those. With some decent writing, one could turn Swampfolk into a more humane "species".
    For example, let's say that Swampfolk were under the evil influence of the The Krivbeknih. And once the Lone Wanderer destroyed it, Swampfolk became more rational and less aggressive. Or maybe it was professor Calvert psychic powers who had a side effect on the Swampfolk, making them violent towards outsiders. :shrug:

    The same could be done with more of those examples.

    The Ghost People could return to a more humane state if they venture outside of the cloud, but then they lose their partial immortality, they could also become addicted to the cloud and that is why they never leave Sierra Madre. But a group could leave for whatever reason and then form a settlement somewhere, where they constantly fight with the effects of their addiction.

    Stuff like that could work if properly written and justified. I am not good at writing though.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1