Alright, alright, I'm a lazy fuck.

Discussion in 'Fallout PnP (Pen and Paper)' started by Hassknecht, Sep 29, 2017.

  1. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    As the title says. I pushed this project and then immediately abandoned it while promising over and over that I will get off my arse, which never happened. Sorry, life got in the way and I never really felt up to the task.
    However, it's time to do something about this. Caution, a little bit of rambling ahead.
    So I had some thoughts on where this should be going, and what it should contain.
    First of all, what it should be. I think the end product should be a comprehensive RPG setting and system that conforms to the Fallout canon as defined by NMA. What does that mean? It means that there should be a DM-handbook and a player's handbook detailing the game mechanics (more on that in a second) necessary for the game, and fluff for the NMA canon. Because of copyright and all this will of course never be commercial, and we should probably call it "No Mutants Allowed". Good name in my opinion.
    Anyway, the mechanics. As we heard in the podcast interview with Chris Avellone, the guys at Black Isle used the actual Fallout mechanics for their PnP sessions. I don't think that's a very good idea, because while BIS wanted to test their mechanics for a computer game, those mechanics are quite cumbersome to do on paper. We need to simplify that because nobody wants to roll 2d10 a billion times with a calculator and three spread sheets around him whenever he decides to fire a burst weapon.
    A 2d10 system for traditions' sake is possible, but we should also see if a d20 or d6 system wouldn't also be possible. But there shouldn't be more than two rolls for each combat turn, and figuring out what to roll shouldn't require a billion calculations. This is supposed to be fun, after all :D
    Character creation and handling can be done pretty close to the original Fallouts, I think, as calculations-heavy mechanics are not that much of an issue there.
    The fluff, then. We need to define a canon timeline and set some base rules about the universe. A fluff book should contain detailed descriptions about important locations and some important NPCs for the Overseers to use in their adventures. Of course, since we're looking at a long timeline, this is could be quite a lot, so we need to think about how to handle this smartly. Maybe define "eras" to play in that change certain aspects of the fluff, like directly after the War, during the Master's campaign, and so on.
    How to package everything? As I said, handbooks for Overseer and players, but I'd also like to make assets for Roll20. Thing is, the NMA community is spread all over the world, so many sessions will be done over the Internet, and Roll20 is a free tool that appears to be really helpful.
    We could make a full compendium for our system and create assets for the virtual player board. There might be licensing issues, though, so we will have to look into that in more detail.

    Anyway, enough rambling, I just wanted to give a life sign and hope that we can still pull this off somehow.
    Your comments?
  2. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    Jul 7, 2014
    Perhaps an adaptation of the d20 system, either the Pathfinder or Fifth Edition variants, could be a useful baseline. Yeah, you don't get the SPECIAL mechanics, which kinda sucks, but they're both easy to pick up and play.
  3. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, I thought about that. I mean, there already are basic d20 variants for modern and even post-apoc settings, but I'd like to retain as much as possible from the original Fallout system.
    For example, I think action points should remain instead of the "two actions per turn" limit of D&D and similar. Fallout's system is good, it's just that the calculations for combat are a bit cumbersome for an actual PnP game. In the end you'll still do two rolls for hit and damage, but all those damage modifiers need to be a bit simplified.
    How should damage be implemented anyway, if it's, for example, 3-10 base damage? I think we'll have to do some different approach here, also with burst weapons. Rolling 2d10 for a single shot is fine, but burst weapons fire in an arc and shoot many bullets, so just for chance to hit you'd have to roll 2d10 A LOT of times if you were to do it strictly. So that has to change imo.
  4. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    Jul 7, 2014
    I prefer the two actions per turn system. If action points are retained, then Agility (or it's equivalent) suddenly becomes "the best stat," because you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage if you don't. A PnP RPG should never have "a best stat."

    That's kind of why AC in d20 isn't determined by Constitution, but Dexterity (and/or Strength.) Because if you have a system where your HP and AC are separate, you can have it so that you don't need to have high numbers in both. That's one of the reasons I love the cleric I'm playing in Pathfinder. His HP isn't fantastic (31 max at 4th level) but his AC is monstrous (22, which means that it takes a lot to actually hit me,) which means I don't have to worry too much about his HP. With a system in place that limits your actions based on a stat, not a base rule, it means there is a "best stat."

    EDIT: As for burst weapons, maybe have a system where you roll a basic attack roll for the gun as a whole, then roll a dice (d3, d4, d6, whatever) to determine how many bullets actually hit then roll damage once and multiply it by the number of bullets.
  5. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    AG is only good for when you have a combat character, though. But yeah, it's a very important stat most of the time.
    On the other hand, this is about "recreating" Fallout, so maybe we should keep some quirks.
    Anyway, AC and HP are also seperate in Fallout. AC is determined by AG, while HP is determined by END.
    Heh, I played a dwarf cleric in Pathfinder as well. Ended up as tank (and part-time damage dealer) due to everyone else in the party rolling absolutely shitty stats while I started with scale armor or whatever.
    I guess the action point system was there to give the player more stuff to do per round, which is essential in a single player game. Even though you don't do much yourself in your turn in a PnP, you still interact with your party, so it's not that bad. Two base actions might be a better way. Maybe have perks that give you another full action or movement per turn (equivalent to Action Boy or Bonus Movement).

    One thing that is probably going to be blasphemous and/or hard to pull off in a PnP is the leveling/experience system of The Elder Scrolls. I like the idea of getting better at stuff that you actually do, feels more like a character development. Should be considered, in my opinion, although it's probably a bit harder to keep track of progress then.
  6. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I have been working on a system that tries to mix d20 with the classic Fallout games one. I want to make a system that feels familiar to players of the classic games but that is more simple to play without the need for a calculator.
    This is a WIP of what a character in this system might look like:

    I scribbled a couple of notes there, in particular on some changes from the classic games system.

    I am still ironing and making things, so I still don't know for sure how the combat system will work (specifically how the "to hit" and AC will work properly). But I already reached a point where I can have a rough idea of how to create a character (I want to be able to have a character made so I can use it to fight himself, so I can find a balanced way of making the combat system work).

    I have an idea for how burst will work too. You don't need to roll several d20 to see how many hit the target, you roll 1d20 to see if you hit and if you do you roll 1d4, 1d6, 1d8 (depending on how many shots that weapon shoots per burst) and the number that comes up is the number of hits. To see if the burst hit other characters nearby the intended target, we see how many hits the dice give you, if it is 1 or 2 it only hit the main target, if it hits 3 or 4 it hit the main target and the target nearby with less AC, if it hits 5 and 6 it hits the main target and the next two characters with lower AC near the target, etc. This is a combat system I am still sketching so I know it's not perfect but I also don't want to roll 200 dice to see if it hits and then some more. Again, combat system is the thing i didn't have time to work on :confused:.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  7. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Sounds good. d20 is basically 2d10 with 5% increments, anyway, so anything working with percentiles should be adaptable to d20.
    So I guess d20 is the way to go, it's what most PnP players have in their homes already anyway, and it's familiar to everyone and close enough to Fallout's percentile system.
    I mean, we could also go GURPS-style and use 3d6 for everything, how about that? That would be very much original Fallout in some way...
    Maybe start from GURPS Lite? Seems to be available for free here, and it looks like it's a good orientation thingy since we're going to do our own thing anyway.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  8. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    Jun 30, 2017
    you are damn right. The way all the existing PnP did wrong is that they are playable only the Fallout geeks (except Horrid's). The mission i claim is mine on this community project is to make it a really, really simple and visual game so that anyone who likes role playing and is familiar to the Fallout universe could play it.

    This is why i came up with a unique (it is similar to GURPS, but i wasn't aware of GURPS when i did it >_>) check system and combat system that is really simple and is no where near to being similar to any existing tabletop games'. Click to go to the forum page.

    I just wanted to make the game possible to play with irrelevant people who weren't PnP geeks (and i did play, with my older sis and a girl friend of her, they are both usual college students) and have some fun.

    Questions: is the copyright of this project going to be owned by Bethesda? Are we going to use the Fallout universe or a really similar one, are we going to use the pictures copyrighted by Bethesda like i did with my cards?

    If we create or own world which is an imitation of Fallout universe, and call it something like Fellout (:P), we could legally be on our own.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  9. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    Jun 30, 2017
    @Risewild my combat system works this way:

    Your Accuracy is your PERCEPTION multiplied by 3.

    To shoot someone, you extract stuff from your accuracy, like the Armor Score of the opponent. There are many occasional bonuses and handicaps to your accuracy. E.g. having a crippled arm(-), being in a light-scarce place(-), crouching or being prone(+) and so on. When you calculate your occasional Accuracy, you roll a d20. You aim to roll low in order to hit. You want to low equal to your occasional Accuracy or lower than it.
    If you hit-succeed, you roll a d6. This decides the body part the projectile is going to hit. 1,2,3=Chest. 4=Legs. 5=Arms. 6=Head. They have different outcomes, but i am not going to tell them here. If you have VATS, you just say the body part and you are good to go.
    Finally, you roll the damage roll of your weapon.

    Every partipicant of combat has 3 Actions (A) every turn (if they are not on drugs or their head is not crippled). Different actions cost different A's. Actions are listed down, but are not limited with the list.

    · Shooting , swinging, throwing (Depends on weapon.)

    · Moving (Depends on your AGI, hence your moving speed, you will find out later.)

    · Getting up from ground (2A)

    · Climbing (Depends on GM)

    · Performing a long distance jump (little obstacles can/should be ignored by GM) (1A)

    · Picking up an item from ground (1A)

    · Crouching down (1A)

    · Laying to the ground (1A)

    · Using a stimpak (1A)

    · Eating (Depends on food)

    · Using chems (Depends on chems)

    This is my combat system roughly explained. Here is the document:
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    That is a question that needs to be answered. I think if we keep everything open source and free and distribute it as a work of fan-art, there shouldn't be any copyright issues. But we will need to adress that, maybe contact Bethesda.
  11. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    Jun 30, 2017
    I think we should run a Kickstarter campaign and send people props of PnP like cards, Manuals and (3d printed) minis. But to do that, there should be no copyright issues to mess with and we would need a designer crew (both 3d and 2d)
  12. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, I think that's quite risky.
    But I do think that if we can make 3D models we can distribute them for people to make them via 3D printing themselves. Also, 2D models for little cardboard figurines and all that stuff for Roll20.
  13. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    Jun 30, 2017
    So, you think we should do it under the copyright of Bethesda?
  14. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Depends on what that means. We should get in contact with Bethesda and see how much they care about some folks on a website making a free-to-play Pen&Paper game using names and locations they have copyright over. For a free game it will probably be enough to denote that all the rights are with Bethesda (gotta look up the exact way it has to be done), but maybe they'll want to put a lid on it and charge licensing fees. It depends on the copyright holder, I think. Paramount cracked down hard on fan-made Star Trek films, even if they're free projects, as far as I know. But Bethesda with their active modding scene seem to be somewhat open, and nobody cracked down on Fallout PnP yet, so I think it will be fine.
    But I'd still recommend not even trying to sell anything, that always just leads to trouble.
  15. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    Jun 30, 2017
    I don't think they wouldn't mind charching us some money, because it appears they are short on money since they implemented the Creation Club :)

    Okay, no selling. Wasn't my aim all along. I just thought we could send props to people.
  16. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Credits are of course necessary, just not some sort of official licence.
  17. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I like the idea of it being GURPS-like. After all Fallout system was born from GURPS. I will check out the GURPS lite free stuff and see how it holds for internet based groups. See if it needs any changes or something.

    If Bethesda minds, we will just have to make our own spin-off. Instead of having copyrighted factions we would just make up new names for them, instead of vaults we would make a different thing, instead of company names we would make new names, etc. Instead of SPECIAL system we would have to make a different one (this one would suck, because it is definitely a staple of Fallout and would be very useful even for a No Mutants Allowed RPG), etc.

    It is also important to notice that @Agnus_Dei has his own Fallout P&P system he built (already mentioned before here) and @Horrid has one too.

    I am going to download the free GURPS lite things and check them out (I can't remember 90% of the rules for GURPS anymore :confused:). I have looked into so many P&P system on the last two years that I confuse them all now. :lol:
  18. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I think I'll write an Email to Bethesda, see what they say.

    /edit: Waiting for a response, hopefully I used the right adress.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  19. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    Jun 30, 2017
    i want some deed :/