Classic Fallout Gameplay Flaws (Also New Vegas)

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by TerminallyChill, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. a721402

    a721402 I'm officially doomed.

    Mar 29, 2016
    You are the official gay of NMA for lots of reasons, one of those is you into traps.
  2. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Yknow @Courier is gay. I don't understand why I gotta be the official gay despite liking women.
  3. a721402

    a721402 I'm officially doomed.

    Mar 29, 2016

    Because only the gayest one will suddenly claim someone is gay and liking traps.
  4. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Yeah but you literally did that
  5. a721402

    a721402 I'm officially doomed.

    Mar 29, 2016
    Because you are the one start it, and you done that so often in the past, now everyone is free to call you a gay and none of them will be considered as one.
  6. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
  7. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Whatever, pillow biter.
  8. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Lanius. The Butcher. Monster of the East.

    Dec 6, 2016
    Do you know in Fallout 1 or 2, when you have several closets next to each other, usually in a vault? So trying to open them is a real hell if you're too lazy to put away your gun. the animation lasts FOREVER. 4/10
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  9. Charwo

    Charwo It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 9, 2017
    What Fallout 1 and 2 got wrong mechanically:

    No horses, or robohorses
    You could only pick two traits.
    Looting on caravan runs was way too easy. The loot should have been tallied up and divided among you and the caravaners.
    There was no penalty for stealing stuff from bookcases in people's houses (it shoulda had a karma hit).
    No ability to engage in non-lethal combat and take prisoners. Maybe put in a bounty system for bringing in ruffians alive.
    No way to con the President into giving you the keycard.
    I personally would have liked to make a player home out of SAD
    Skill Magazines should only have been able to raise your skill to 50 or 60. After that, there should be a university system to pay increased rates to get you up to 90. I'm thinking either Vault City and/or San Fransisco for Fallout 2 and the Brotherhood library in Fallout 1.
    And if you want to get an implant that would raise your special skill up to 11, you should instead get a special Superhuman perk, with various unique abilities rather than just have the opportunity wasted.
    A bounty hunter perk to complement being wanted (and both cappped to combat armor, not even the brothhood of steel could afford to lose that much power armor going after you).
    The ability to loot and repair damaged armor.

    Granted, this should all have been part of an expansion pack, along with the EPA and Abbey.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Also waiting for more than ten npcs to take their turns is hell.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Risewild

    Risewild So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Courier is an Orderite and not really NMA'er.
  12. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    I've actually looked into mods for New Vegas where the trait cap is removed as part of my ultimate gameplay overhaul. The general consensus is that the limit was imposed for a reason. Traits as they exist are often more beneficial than they are detrimental, which can lead to some real balance issues if left unchecked. The idea of unlimited modifiers is a solid one, but the effects themselves have to be designed in such a way that a character who chooses all of them is equally as powerful as one who picks none.

    This is easier said than done, but a good start would be increasing the penalties of certain overpowered options. Gifted in the classics should have had at least a 25% skill drop and given you 10 less skill points per level in order to have made it an actual toss up decision instead of the automatic yes it's always been. Small Frame in New Vegas needed more than worse limb damage to justify a permanent extra SPECIAL point that counted towards perks. Maybe a 50lb carry weight penalty in addition to the 25% extra limb damage taken? Really though, all they needed to do was make it so that the Agility point didn't count for perks. Duh.

    Yeah this always pissed me off in a game that's otherwise pretty reactive. What is this, Pokemon level AI, where people just happily greet any stranger who walks in their front door? Give me a break. NPCs should have been like "What the hell do you think you're doing?" and either attacked you or took their stuff back if you were caught lifting their possessions. This mechanic would have also served to make Sneak and Steal more useful skills.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  13. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Vault Fossil

    Nov 26, 2007
    I was really ticked off that FO3 passed out perks like candy; (and for balance sake, made them a lot less potent). I don't like ~unlimited. Limits create value, and no limits eliminate value.

    Every kid wants the all-day sucker... until they have one, and try to eat it.

    Like many things in life... It's actually more fun to want it, than to have it.

    I was annoyed with NV's choice to make Wild-Wasteland a (wasted) trait, but it would have been just as bad to offer three traits—even though that could give WW and two others.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 1:38 PM
  14. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    This has a remedy in the form of Deus Ex's Praxis Points. Basically when you leveled up in those games, you got a point to spend. If you wanted a minor upgrade like damage resistance after one level up, you were free to buy it, but the purchase was entirely optional. If you instead wanted a more powerful upgrade like invisibility, you would then have to save up points for two or three levels in order to afford it. This buy-in method both rewards patience and offers players more choice than the 'one perk every x level' system that Fallout has always employed. You could have both Fallout 2's godly game changers and Fallout 3's negligible buffs coexisting within the same perk ecosystem.

    Yeah, to this day I still don't understand why they chose to make Wild Wasteland a trait. It's not like it alters the balance of the game in a significant way. It could have just as easily been an option in the menu like Hardcore Mode. At the very least it shouldn't have counted towards the two trait cap.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 2:12 PM
  15. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Vault Fossil

    Nov 26, 2007
    Fallout didn't have perks in the beginning. Fargo took the beta home and played it over the weekend, and later told them he didn't have enough to do when he leveled up. They added Perks to the game. Fallout allowed for seven perks... only four in the case of a certain high-powered trait.

    Perks are for all intents... personal exceptions to the game's common rule system; and as such (IMO) they should never be commonplace; handed out like player treats, the way Bethesda did it.

    I am going to have to play Deus Ex; (I have it on GoG, and have played a PC in it, but I don't think that I've leveled him up yet). Praxis points would seem to fit the fiction of a cyborg's never ending upgrade.... But traits (in Fallout) are the character's physical and mental quirks that set them apart—from birth. Their entire mind & body can be changed by —optionally— selecting any of them, before starting the game. Traits are like the Star signs, in Oblivion. (Similar to Perks, they are themselves powerful exceptions to the rules.)

    There is different system in Shadowrun, where all creatures have an ethereal (and finite) essence—that they lose as they get pieces of their body chopped off for electing cybernetic implants. This plays as a good (under the hood) balancing mechanism for diminishing the PC's magical potential; which also relies on the ethereal essence.

    **This is also why I would never want to see a Bethesda Shadowrun game. Essence loss is permanent—and in a Bethesda title, it wouldn't be. In all likelihood, their game's PC could go full 'borg, and later sell it all back for their previous body.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 5:42 PM
  16. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    Upgrades work exactly like perks in Fallout. Deus Ex just has a better system for selecting them. There wouldn't even have to be any change to the story. When you'd level up in my version of Fallout, it would be like 'congratulations, you got a perk point' and then you could scroll through a list just like every game in the series and see what you can pick. The only difference is that some powerful perks would be locked out by points in addition to the existing skill prerequisites, and you could just choose 'accept' without picking a perk if you wanted to save up points. It's just a way of doing it so there can be more depth within the mechanic.