EU referendum: Leave Vote

[Millim]

In all honesty, this is interesting coming from the point of where the decision will take us.
Might I remind people there are legit concerns to leaving in the EU, even I had to think carefully.

However that being said, we have literally got the tories by the balls.
If we stay, they would be seen as undemocratic and if we leave, they would go down in history as the worst party we've ever had.

Saying that however, the general population are idiots, some people didn't even know what the EU actually is and voted leave, while others are regretting their choice.

Considering the outcome is so close it may as well be 50/50, and considering that cooperation's run a country under this type of capitalism, it seems very likely we will stay.

Again, that puts the Tories under fire, no matter what happens, they've practically finished.
If Scotland leaves the UK and NI reunifies with ROI, then that's their legacy.

Also take into account the amount of people who voted for and against, Nigel Farage has already put himself in the firing line because he has already gone bank against the promise the leave campaign were throwing out there for the NHS.

All of that aside, the safest way to make change is if the EU realises it has many mistakes under its wing.

Considering a lot of this is also a knee jerk reaction (the pound is increasing so there's that).
In all honesty, this is kind of a wake-up call.
The whole thing was a big shame based on nothing but half truths, lies and fearmongering and hate.
It's time for a different approach to politics, because our politicians have no experience with the real World, they are rich asswholes who think they know better.

This vote was exactly that, it put the UK to its knees and yet remains pretty much evenly split.
The whole issue with UKIP's stance is that they believe they were fed a lie with the EU, and many older people believe that too.
What gets me is that there is some sort of rage and hate against the older people when the young should actually be teaching them.

To be honest, this should never have gone to public vote, but I guess the Country has to suffer for a while so real change can actually happen.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The EU doesn't want Britain back...

 

[Gonzalez]

The EU doesn't want Britain back...

I think you might be onto something there..

"Have they ever really been part of the EU?"

"They were a pain in the ass when they wanted in, now they're a pain in the ass going out: The English are the cats of Europe."

And this:

"Sorry and good riddance"

Backing out now would make the UK look like total fools. Begging to be let back with their tail between their legs after they voted themselves out. "The English are the cats of Europe" comment totally nails it.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I think you might be onto something there..

"Have they ever really been part of the EU?"

"They were a pain in the ass when they wanted in, now they're a pain in the ass going out: The English are the cats of Europe."

And this:

"Sorry and good riddance"

Backing out now would make the UK look like total fools. Begging to be let back with their tail between their legs after they voted themselves out. "The English are the cats of Europe" comment totally nails it.

Well, well, that's typical.

 

[Ilosar]

One thing I just don't get is the whole ''Europe is a tyranny!'' thing. Britain wilfully entered it, has influence over its law and regulations thanks to the delegates it sends there, still manages all their internal affairs with not a whiff of oversight, and is able to exit Europe after 51% of their population votes for it, with no apparent strings attached.

And that's supposed to warrant an ''Independance Day''? Jeez. What are people expecting, that any and every single issue ever affecting Britain are decided there? No country exists in a vacuum, especially not one that aspires to being an economic and military powerhouse.

 

[Brivoo]

One thing I just don't get is the whole ''Europe is a tyranny!'' thing. Britain wilfully entered it, has influence over its law and regulations thanks to the delegates it sends there, still manages all their internal affairs with not a whiff of oversight, and is able to exit Europe after 51% of their population votes for it, with no apparent strings attached.

And that's supposed to warrant an ''Independance Day''? Jeez. What are people expecting, that any and every single issue ever affecting Britain are decided there? No country exists in a vacuum, especially not one that aspires to being an economic and military powerhouse.

Don't be fooled; "Independence Day" is nationalist nonsense used to rile the masses.

The main arguments against the EU are that it wasn't and was not going to be a political union back when the UK joined in and the labyrinthian bureaucracy which indefinitely delays various processes regardless of who is voting for what.

 

[Ilosar]

Don't be fooled; "Independence Day" is nationalist nonsense used to rile the masses.

The main arguments against the EU are that it wasn't and was not going to be a political union back when the UK joined in and the labyrinthian bureaucracy which indefinitely delays various processes regardless of who is voting for what.

Yeah, those are already more understandable reasons. The EU being what it is, I assume Britain also figured reforming it would take too much effort and time for what it's worth. Albeit a labyrinthian bureaucracy is, I think, pretty much inevitable when you're trying to juggle the political and economic interests of 28 different countries even closer than the UN does. IMO, so long as your country reaps the economic benefits that's not worth leaving, but again I'm not British.

I also heard that Scotland, Wales and Ireland voted far more in favor of staying, and are none too pleased that the English majority chose to ditch the EU for them (just noting the irony here). Does anyone thinks this vote might stir the nationalistic pot in Britain once again, or it's just a temporary hiccup?

 

[RoboStang]

Don't be fooled; "Independence Day" is nationalist nonsense used to rile the masses.

The main arguments against the EU are that it wasn't and was not going to be a political union back when the UK joined in and the labyrinthian bureaucracy which indefinitely delays various processes regardless of who is voting for what.

Agreed. The EU should have remained a simple trade union like the TPP, instead of having a centralized bureaucracy that imposes too many regulations and open borders.

 

[Brivoo]

Yeah, those are already more understandable reasons. The EU being what it is, I assume Britain also figured reforming it would take too much effort and time for what it's worth. Albeit a labyrinthian bureaucracy is, I think, pretty much inevitable when you're trying to juggle the political and economic interests of 28 different countries even closer than the UN does. IMO, so long as your country reaps the economic benefits that's not worth leaving, but again I'm not British.

I also heard that Scotland, Wales and Ireland voted far more in favor of staying, and are none too pleased that the English majority chose to ditch the EU for them (just noting the irony here). Does anyone thinks this vote might stir the nationalistic pot in Britain once again, or it's just a temporary hiccup?

Scotland's likely to have a second referendum unless Boris works some sort of miracle and it's not entirely unfeasible for NI to have one too (though it's unlikely they'll vote to leave).

Wales actually had a majority Leave vote, but a lot of areas in London wanted to remain and are now proposing an independent city, which I really hope becomes a reality just for the Parliament's prolonged "... Well where the fuck are we gonna go?" moment.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Imagine if something like that would really happen ... independed London. Still, it's impossible to say for now what will happen. Ireland, Scottland and the other states. It's to early. In 2-3 years I think we will definetly know more. But, to quote an article:
(...)
The deeper fear among Tory remainers now isn’t just of a recession. It’s about the rise of something new in British politics, unleashed when politicians with scant respect for truth meet desperate voters; and for the backlash to come, when it sinks in that Brexit hasn’t ended immigration overnight or magically given depressed communities their futures back. Already, one wonders what those who voted desperately for change make of being told there’s no rush to invoke article 50.


No wonder Tory leavers wanted Cameron to stay for a bit while they scratched together a plan for dismounting safely from the tiger they’ve been riding. But control is what the Brexiters said they wanted. Now they’ve got it, and they’re about to find out how it feels.

Maybe Europe needs a new anthem as well ...

Short term economic loss for long-term national gain. A nation's ability to control its economy and future is worth far more than 350 billion in the capitalist system.

What happens if you get neither of it?
Like if the British government decides to keep all the laws and regulations because of trading with the EU, but has now no say in new EU laws ...

 

[Vergil]

Spoiler: The Salt is delicious

 

[Gonzalez]

Poor guy, not enough to find out his nightmare became true, they totally trolled him.

EDIT:

This is what Putin has to say about the Brexit

Russian President Vladimir Putin says ‘Brexit’ is the choice made by the British nation and is a comprehensible one, as “no one wants to feed weak economies.” Russia has not and does not plan to interfere with the results of the referendum, he added.

“I think it’s comprehensible why this happened: first, no one wants to feed and subsidize poorer economies, to support other states, support entire nations,” the Russian president said at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit in Tashkent.

“Apparently the British people are not satisfied with the way problems are being solved in the security sphere, these problems have become more acute lately with the migration processes,” Putin said, suggesting the second reason for the British people to have voted ‘out.’

The Russian president's comments come in reply to UK Prime Minister David Cameron’s claims that “Putin would be happy if the UK left the EU.”

 

[0wing]

Can this be considered the beginning of the end of the sovie... european union?

 

[Risewild]

For those who keep asking for the facts about advantages and disadvantages of the UK being part of the EU (with links to sources and even using UK government figures and sources. This was taken from Economicshelp.org, which is an independent and trustworthy source):

Spoiler: Disadvantages

Disadvantages of EU membership to UK include:

1. Cost. The costs of EU membership to the UK is £15bn gross (0.06% of GDP) – or £6.883 billion net. (See UK government spending). (UKIP claim that the cost of EU membership in total amounts to £83bn gross if you include all possible costs, such as an ‘estimated’ £48bn of regulation costs – or £1,380 per head. The ONS have estimated a net contribution cost of £7.1 bn. See (actual cost of EU membership)
2. Inefficient policies. A large percentage (40%) of EU spending goes on the Common Agricultural Policy. For many years this distorted agricultural markets by placing minimum prices on food. This lead to higher prices for consumers and encouraging over-supply. Reforms to CAP have reduced, but not eliminated this wastage. A big existing problem with CAP is that it has rewarded large land-owners, with little reflection of social benefit. See: Transfer of funds from poor to rich landowners (Guardian) Though the UK is guilty of rejecting limit on CAP
3. Problems of the Euro. Membership of the EU doesn’t necessarily mean membership of the Euro. But, the EU has placed great emphasis on the single currency. However, it has proved to have many problems and contributed to low rates of economic growth and high unemployment across the EU. Fortunately, the UK stayed out of the Euro. (See: Problems of Euro.)
4. Pressure towards austerity. Since 2008, many southern European countries have faced pressure from the EU to pursue austerity – spending cuts to meet budget deficit targets, but in the middle of a recession these austerity measures have contributed to prolonged economic stagnation. In particular, Greece was forced by its creditors to accept austerity, when some economists have argued this is counter-productive.
5. Net migration. Free movement of labour has caused problems of overcrowding in some UK cities. The UK’s population is set to rise to 70 million over the next decade, partly due to immigration (of which 50% is from EU and 50% from non-EU). Immigration has helped to push up house prices and led to congestion on roads. (See: immigration and housing) The concern is that in the EU, the UK is powerless to place a limit on immigration from Eastern Europe because free movement of labour is a cornerstone of the EU. (See: Impact of immigration on UK economy)
6. More bureaucracy less democracy. It is argued that the EU has created extra layers of bureaucracy whilst taking away decision making process further from local communities. For example, the British Chambers of Commerce has estimated that the annual cost to the UK of EU regulation is £7.4bn. The introduction of Qualified majority voting (QMV) mean that on many decisions votes can be taken against the public interest of a particular country.

Evaluation of these problems


Source: Gov.UK – though they give confusing figure of EU spending at £3bn, which is less than agreed measure, so the person who made that graph adapted figures to use £14.7bn – which is generally accepted.

Spoiler: Advantages

• The cost of the EU is a relatively small percentage of overall UK government spending. (See: EU In perspective)
• The UK has received regional funds over the years, which has helped economic regeneration of areas like South Wales and North East..
• The CAP and other policies are in a long slow process of being reformed. If the UK stays in the EU it could, in theory, help to promote policies which work in the long-term interest of the UK and reform inefficient policies like CAP.
• An estimated 3.5 million jobs are linked to trade with Europe. Some jobs may be threatened if tariff barriers were to rise outside the EU.
• The UK is third largest recipient of inward investment in the world. Access to the Single Market is one factor in encouraging this inward investment. The investment is important for UK economic growth and jobs.
• Some EU bureaucracy has been beneficial in promoting competition, e.g. forcing mobile phone networks to limit charging when using mobiles abroad.
• UK newspapers have tended to exaggerate and even misinform readers about ‘EU rules and regulation’. This is a list of Euro myths – where UK newspapers have blamed EU regulations, but it was actually inaccurate or misplaced.
• Issues like farming and fishing and the environment are global issues which need to be tackled within a European framework, it is insufficient to have just a national policy on fishing and the environment because the issues by nature require global co-operation, e.g. solve global warming, over-rishing.
• The EU Health Insurance Card enables EU citizens to receive emergency healthcare on the same terms as the citizens of the EU country they are visiting (often free). (Euro-movement)
• By staying out the Euro, the UK has retained independence over monetary policy, fiscal policy and the exchange rate. The UK doesn’t have the same pressure to pursue austerity as countries in the Eurozone have. This shows that the UK can combine membership of the EU with flexibility over economic policy.

• Migration works both ways. Many British people have emigrated to take advantage of opportunities elsewhere in Europe. An estimated 748,010 Britons live or work in the European Union (link). However, net migration has been running at around 200,000 a year since early 2000s.
• EU migrants are net contributors to the UK Treasury. Although they cost the UK in terms of public services, they contribute relatively more in taxes. The main reason is that migrants are more likely to be of working age 20-40. Therefore, they need relatively less health care and no pensions. The UK native population is rapidly ageing – this places stress on public finances because of a greater need for health care and pensions. Without net migration, there would be a greater strain on public finances.
• The free movement of labour enables a more flexible labour market, with immigrants able to fill gaps in the UK labour market, such as nursing and plumbing. Also the additional labour increases UK productive capacity and helps increase real GDP. (see impact of rising population) The large numbers of net migration to UK in recent years, may reflect a temporary situation of relatively higher growth in UK than Europe, and may subside when (if) the Eurozone recovers.
• Problems attributed to EU migration are more due to general government policy – e.g. cuts to share of GDP spent on health care.

 

[Throatpunch]

Nothing I post will ever get to you, people who actually care about the topic and want to understand the situation in full will look at what I've presented but you, you're a lost cause and I don't have the patience to keep repeating myself anymore. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall.

Great, lets just totally ignore the guy who has EU papers and lives in Europe, and the actually British guy, keep coming up with random shit, and then insult them!

 

[SuAside]

Some great memes are already spawning

I think the problem is that for the time being, the LEAVE camp is nothing but memes, one liners and wishful thinking. The practical implementation of leaving in itself will be a huge undertaking, as well as trying to stabilize the economy. Not to mention the british politicians now have to decisively deal with all those things they blamed the EU for.

Obviously the UK's current economic woes will stabilize, I don't think anyone really doubts that. The pound will rise again (though likely not to old heights).

 

[Throatpunch]

Already this petition has 1 million signatures and several MPS are considering private members bills. This is where it gets interesting, because at least one of those private members bills will go through and that means referendum 2.0. Many in GB have totally reconsidered now they have seen what happens when we leave, with 2 trillion off the markets and the economy tanking and the government in turmoil.
Looks like we are probably going to stay anyway, as long as the European leaders dont get all cuntish and active article 50 for us.

 

[Crni Vuk]

first, no one wants to feed and subsidize poorer economies, to support other states, support entire nations,” the Russian president said at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit in Tashkent.

Yes. Fuck others. It's always the same. And then everyone is surprised when extremists in said nations start to come up, growing and gaining power. How could that happen everyone will ask? How did we not see it! To think that we are not responsible is ludicrous. Immigration is one great example. For the last 30 years we pretty much left Italy, Spain and Greece alone with their issues. Particularly Germany which had the luxury that a lot of nations are between them and the mediterranean sea. Financial decisions are another one.
Why even have a Uninion when the nations can't or don't want to stand up and support each other?

 

[Atomkilla]

 

[Jogre]

Some great memes are already spawning

Oh great, Islamophobic Propaganda. Nothing to start the morning quite like seeing a meme made by people deluded enough to think that Europe is going to be taken over by Muslims.

I also heard that Scotland, Wales and Ireland voted far more in favor of staying

*Scotland and Northern Ireland

Wales wanted to leave, and Ireland isn't part of the UK, only Northern Ireland is. Most of Ireland has been independent since the early 20th century.