Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Magnus, May 8, 2008.

  1. trollworkout

    trollworkout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Aug 1, 2015
  2. Garzhad

    Garzhad First time out of the vault

    Jul 22, 2015
    I'm talking REAL lasers that have weapon applications. Star Trek-style Tractor 'beams' don't exist, and gravitophotonics has only been observed at microscopic levels. Freezing lasers Do technically exist in an experimental form, but only work when interacting with Specific atoms on a matched frequency, and their primary purpose would be to replace refridgerant in freezers and for fanless computers; they have extremely limited range and zero military applications due to the time required and the fact it would be impossible to get a frequency match with the wide variety of different atoms on a human being; You could chill a solid bar of say Iron, but not composite armor materials, let alone the smorgasbord of complex molecules that make up an organic body.

    All lasers are relativistic because all lasers are light and thus travel at the speed of light; they have no mass. The article you linked to talks about extremely high intensity lasers creating plasma when they hit the target material and simultaneously accelerating said plasma to relativistic speeds(like a particle accelerator), not that lasers are relativistic plasma; scientific literacy here.

    Particle accelerators are not lasers, they are particle accelerators, they fire atoms that have mass at near-relativistic speeds. They also emit lethal amounts of ionizing radiation on everything nearby(and that's how they kill things, by irradiating the hell out of it), are short ranged, easily deflected by charged fields, and have the accuracy of a Revolutionary War Musket, and thus not of much use. They do look like lightning though, so they have the coolness factor. Still barely more practical than actual plasma weapons though, and they don't inflict terrible wounds in flesh like a laser or kinetic projectile can. For any given expenditure of energy, projectiles and lasers are far more effective at killing things and have far greater range.

    Heck, you could mount a blue-green free electron laser on the bottom of a aircraft carrier so that it can destroy incoming torpedos before they reach the ship once the technology matures; blue-green lasers can travel through hundreds of meters of water.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  3. trollworkout

    trollworkout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Aug 1, 2015
    you said

    nope

    real life non melting, non explosively evaporating tractor beam
    http://www.iflscience.com/physics/p...r-tractor-beam-functional-over-long-distances

    real life non melting, non explosively evaporating freezing beam
    http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-09/laser-refrigeration-fastest-coolest-chilling-tech-yet

    relativistic lasers? why?
    you think death stars shot light to destroy alderaan?

    here is a real laser vs conventional gun
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYK-Ha2eSE

    as you can see conventional > laser. but why? also where is the beam???

    true laser weapons work by slowly heating up the target. real lasers need to be in a high spectrum range (aka high energy state) in order to be damaging. we don't see high spectrum light. hence all weaponized real lasers have no VISIBLE beam.

    what you see in movies dubbed lasers are not beams of light but in fact gas (plasma) or electrons or other particles superheated by lasers and shot at high speeds giving that flying light look. the momentum is so high it explosively evaporate anything.

    if you're wondering why is because protons, electrons, plasma can carry more energy than light. plasma is essentially light atoms. you need light particles or atoms that don't require much energy to sustain their momentum therefore they can pack a higher punch is a smaller package. also having a mass (weight) works to that advantage as all energy is stored into it's momentum making it devastating on impact depending on the speed it's travelling.

    plasma tech is used in cutting while laser tech is used in non-lethal weaponry, freezing or tractor beams.


    what you talking about is scifi lasers im saying 1. those scifi weapons are likely not purely laser 2. those laser weapons don't just melt/heat/vaporize WITH practical real life examples of laser tech that doesn't do that.

    check yo facts next time.


    BONUS: can you build a real life lightsaber. yes. plasma laser tech. more proof that "laser tech" from movies in practical real world applications is not fully laser and likely won't shoot beams of light.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lr5OUjFDkg
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  4. Garzhad

    Garzhad First time out of the vault

    Jul 22, 2015
    Like I said, not a star trek tractor beam. Only works with microscopic particles, miniscule range, no weapons application, and technically a continuous beam laser.

    And? I mentioned that they exist; they still don't have any kind of weapon applications due to how it works. And it's still a type of continuous beam laser; they fire a laser continuously through a cloud of gas to produce it's effects.

    Star wars isn't real; it didn't Shoot Anything.

    No crap, that's a toy; we don't have the technology to properly weaponize them yet. And it's a continuous beam laser, probably near-infrared, which has the best properties in earth atmosphere.

    I OUTLINED what the two types were earlier, and it still holds true though i'll go deeper; they are either continuous beam death rays(Lasers that shines a beam of near constant power on its target for a prolonged period of time (from a few hundredths of a second or more) or impulse-kill blasters(Lasers that emit a pulse of light so intense that it causes the matter it hits to violently explode. A stream of pulses comprising a single laser bolt is the key to making a laser inflict bullet levels of damage. Blasters use frequencies longer than 200 nanometers: visible light and infrared.)

    A 'true' laser is anything that fires high energy photons. Lasers that slowly 'heat up' the target are continuous beam lasers, or deathrays. They are not 'blasters', they are not impulse-kill lasers. http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmenergy.php Visible light lasers are perfectly capable of putting a hole in you, you just have to put enough electricity behind it. However, being visible light, they tend to have bad range in atmosphere.

    What you see in movies are just computerized special effects. Plasma weapons would work like flamethrowers, not fire condensed 'bolts'. Particle beams resemble lightning. What you see in star wars was no real equivalent in reality, because it's fantasy.

    Lasers carry as much energy as you can put into them without liquifying the internal components from waste heat, and lasers in general are more energy efficient than other weapons, including chemical explosives with theoretical efficiencies of up to 70%+. Certainly more efficient then using a laser to fire a particle beam considering you waste a huge portion of the energy output by the laser in the process and that particle beams in general just arn't that effective at anything except irradiating the crap out of whatever you shot with it at short range.

    Why? They don't seem important to you.
     
  5. trollworkout

    trollworkout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Aug 1, 2015
    this guy's a troll anything i say he just turns it around.

    buddies. issue was wether there are only TWO types of lasers specifically "slow burning" "fast evaporating". i sad no. all taht other stuff you go into is irrelevant. might as well erase your last 2-3 posts. i don't even bother reading past the fact you never proved there are only TWO. all i care about if there are 2 only or more than two types.

    fig 1.2 : are there only two types of lasers? yes or no?

    wait.....hold on.......ahhhhhh.......his next post gonna be like well is two factual. wait. two is just a number. maybe two is really 3 or 4. this way we could be talking forever but not communicating. before we continue talking i need a straight up yes or no to the above question. unless i get a basic simple answer to my question directed at me specifically responding to my question you see in fig 1.2 then i won't further respond to you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  6. Garzhad

    Garzhad First time out of the vault

    Jul 22, 2015
    Lol as if I care if you block me 'troll'workout? You arn't important, I won't lose any sleep over it. Check the links. You arn't as right as you think you are. Check YO facts, mate.

    And yeah, the only realistic lightsaber isn't a light saber, go figure. It's a plasma sword. No lasers involved, because as he said, you can't just confine a laser into a 3-foot blade. I will admit it was still a cool design though, if impractical as all hell. Enough energy to power a city into a handle? Why not just use that energy to blow up the enemy instead? Kill more that way. Not to mention, if that power source ever goes critical, it will make the explosion from the wrist nuke of the first predator look like a wet fart in comparison.

    There is a small 'my bad' though; the site was updated recently. There's actually THREE basic 'types', the continuously firing beam('freezing' lasers, hollow 'tractor' lasers, and most modern industrial and military lasers), the high intensity 'pulse' type laser and: Ray Beams.
    Lasers that emit needle-thin beams that produce a white-hot plasma along their path and easily burn deep holes into their targets.

    The main difference between ray beams and other lasers such as heat-rays or blasters is that they use extreme-ultraviolet, x-rays, or gamma-ray frequencies instead of visible light frequencies. In other words, they use "vacuum frequencies", those frequencies shorter than 200 nanometers which are readily absorbed by Terra's atmosphere. As a side note, anything shorter than 10 nanometers is what scientists call "ionizing radiation" and everybody else calls "OMG We're All Freaking Gonna Die deadly nuclear radiation".
    Oddly enough, while vacuum frequencies are absorbed by Terra's atmosphere they are not effected by plasmas. Which is the exact opposite with respect to non-vacuum frequency laser beams. This means that you do not have to pulse vacuum frequency lasers in order to have bullet levels of damage.

    It's essentially a laser so god-awful powerful that it turns everything that comes into contact with it into white hot plasma along with delivering a fatal dose of ionizing radiation for that extra dose of 'You Go To Hell And You Die!!'.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  7. trollworkout

    trollworkout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Aug 1, 2015
    alright i take that. all you had to do is say that from the start.

    i was gonna ignore you cause i felt this conversation was going nowhere.

    is irrelevant if i'm important, if i'm your friend, if you like me, if i'm a scientist, if that laser is a toy. that's all circumstantial. we're talking about something. are there two types: direct that melts and intermittent that vaporizes? focus on that something. that's all i'm saying.

    been researching and if you go by emission there are two types: direct and intermittent. you said direct that melts and intermittent that vaporizes. not exactly correct. if you go by generating mechanism, by effect, by use there are probably hundreds of types.

    i think you been playing too much fallout with weapons mod installed. which reminds me i'm gonna go play some right now. also btw im trollworkout you can troll the troll. nice try tho.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  8. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    While this has been an entertaining and highly informative read, I ask that you please keep it civil guys.

    I think I'll keep the laser armor values as they are, for now. Currently lasers are good against leather and combat armor, and poor against metal and power armor. This would also be the case if armors were modeled after real life laser resistances, instead of reflectivity. The only thing that's a bit weird is that Metal Armor MkII is so much better against laser than regular Metal Armor. I based this on how much more reflective it is (which seems to be in line with the developers' way of thinking), but if we're going by a realistic model just imagine that the MkII armor has more high quality carbon steel, which is harder for the laser to burn through than scraps of iron and other metals.
     
  9. Garzhad

    Garzhad First time out of the vault

    Jul 22, 2015
    Metal Does resist lasers better than organic materials like leather and flesh for sure, it's just not because it's reflective that it does so. Obviously steel has a higher vaporization point than leather. But a diamond or boron based ceramic would do even better; and we do use composite ceramics that have impressive characteristics. APA in it's description mentions that it's made using ceramic composites, which would be perfect to account for having the best resistance to laser attacks.

    Combat armor would also have high resistance to it, as per in-game descr: High tech armor, made out of advanced defensive polymers. Nothing equivalent to T51B let alone APA, but it would resist better than scrap metal, which would in turn be more resistant than leather(which might as well not be there really) While essentially made of the same materials, hardened leather does fantastically better against slashing cuts due to the hardening process, but it still has basically the same vaporization point of flesh. Bone isn't much better in that department. Neither will appreciably slow a laser; a sufficiently strong one could not only kill you but the dude behind you too.

    Another thing with lasers is things wouldn't have great multi-hit capabilities against it. Thick enough steel could flatten bullets on impact and basically make them not do anything. A laser would still blast out a hole(albeit vastly smaller), and multiple hits would rapidly compromise any armor and eventually penetrate something no matter how tough it is. Given enough time you could scrap a tank with it, not like a tank would let you shoot it for half an hour straight before it killed you though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  10. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    Isn't the combat armor made of hydrocarbons? I.e. plastic? I'm thinking of it as kevlar and such. Great for ballistic protection, not so much against lasers.
    APA does have the best laser resistance in the game, except Tesla armor which handwaves it with some technobabble.
     
  11. Sonsalt

    Sonsalt First time out of the vault

    Aug 19, 2015
    Great job man, nicely done.
     
  12. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    Thanks! Let me know how it goes when you try it out!
     
  13. Sonsalt

    Sonsalt First time out of the vault

    Aug 19, 2015
    re Magnus

    I made it to Level 6 so far with my character and your mod. I use it alongside the Restoration Project 2.3.3. During the installation I noticed however that if I select "Install sfall v3.6 and its default ddraw.ini" the game crashes. It appears that with RP only option 2 (not overwriting the existing ddraw.ini) really works.

    In regards to the feel of the weapons, I can say that they are quite nicely balanced, different bullet types really make a huge difference, depending on the armor of the enemy. This I really like, makes the game more tactical.

    With the limited amount of ammo around melee is a viable option and I use it frequently to save ammo.

    Some new guns would spice things up but that is probably too much to ask for.

    All in all great work, so many years after the game was released. Will keep fighting through the wastelands and keep you updated.

    So far quite a challenge. Bandits are not a joke :P
     
  14. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    Ah yes, option 1 is not recommended with the RP. The installer will recommend option 2 if it detects that you have a sfall version less than 3.6, and the one that comes with the RP is 3.3, so it should have told you to select option 2.

    Glad you like it! There is one "new" gun, the Taser (former Needler Pistol). It's used by NCR and VC patrols, among others.
     
  15. CraYen

    CraYen First time out of the vault

    Sep 7, 2015
    Anyone can help? Win10 64bit
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    Ahhh of course. Try running the program either in fullscreen, or in a very small window. I'll have a look at fixing it tomorrow.
     
  17. CraYen

    CraYen First time out of the vault

    Sep 7, 2015
    Yea stupid me -.- Removed space from the exe and ran it through cmd. Installed, thanks for the mod :)
     
  18. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    Fantastic!
     
  19. Zeph

    Zeph First time out of the vault

    Oct 14, 2009
    First of all, I am loving the mod so far! Great job! I was wondering if a new link to the spreadsheet with the ammo and armor values could be posted as the old one does not work right now, and I would love to have that data. Thanks!

    I should also add that I can't find the spreadsheet included with the files themselves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  20. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    Ah yes! I didn't have time to update that one, so I left it out of the mod. I'll put it up as soon as possible.